[Traditional Enneagram] You know you're a type 9 when...

[Kanra Jest]

Is this actually a joke I'm not getting? Because it's false. One of 9's core defining traits is a lack of awareness of their anger, with 9w8s being more aware than 9w1s generally.

Pretty aware of my anger. Not sure I understand that concept. What's the point of stuffing away anger constantly? (9w8 sx)

 

[Mind Maverick]

Pretty aware of my anger. Not sure I understand that concept. What's the point of stuffing away anger constantly? (9w8 sx)

Also 9w8 Sx (distinctive w8 preference, hazier on the instincts and could be Sp Dom...but I am usually over 50% Sx on assessments).

I guess it threatens relations. Asserting the self entails disturbing the waters, disrupting harmony. It means conflict. Anger arises from this, but it's supposed to be unconsciously repressed...thus, lack of awareness. Admittedly, it's one of the areas of 9 I understand less than other areas of it probably.

 

[Kanra Jest]

Also 9w8 Sx (distinctive w8 preference, hazier on the instincts and could be Sp Dom...but I am usually over 50% Sx on assessments).

I guess it threatens relations. Asserting the self entails disturbing the waters, disrupting harmony. It means conflict. Anger arises from this, but it's supposed to be unconsciously repressed...thus, lack of awareness. Admittedly, it's one of the areas of 9 I understand less than other areas of it probably.

Indeed it does. But the need to assert the self still (usually) comes in a little stronger than keeping the peace for me, unless it's not advantageous to do so. Not being aware of it? I suppose when unhealthy though it can make one appear a lot more 8'like though, blurring the lines. For me it's kinda like a pop of anger, assertion, whatever, then once it's over quickly returning to a neutral careless state again. That being the natural state. A few smaller pops can happen as well depending on things that are frustrating especially if unhealthy, but just as quickly as it comes it can disappear. And I think that is part of the ... interesting dichotomy about 9w8(maybe also 8w9?) being total opposites especially the shifts around the two opposite states. Banner/Hulk might be a very extreme example of it in a way.

I suspect the SX also plays a part though. Supposedly on 3's and 5's both it can make them more "four'ish"

 

[Mind Maverick]

Indeed it does. But the need to assert the self still (usually) comes in a little stronger than keeping the peace for me, unless it's not advantageous to do so. Not being aware of it? I suppose when unhealthy though it can make one appear a lot more 8'like though, blurring the lines. For me it's kinda like a pop of anger, assertion, whatever, then once it's over quickly returning to a neutral careless state again. That being the natural state. A few smaller pops can happen as well depending on things that are frustrating especially if unhealthy, but just as quickly as it comes it can disappear. And I think that is part of the ... interesting dichotomy about 9w8(maybe also 8w9?) being total opposites especially the shifts around the two opposite states. Banner/Hulk might be a very extreme example of it in a way.

I see. For me there is...lack of assertion, etc. unti things escalate and I eventually find myself using anger as a spine. I don't put up with shit then. I dislike this about myself, but it's my nature. I fight it using communication skills, etc. I was quite unaware of a lot of things prior to using Enneagram to introspect.

I suspect the SX also plays a part though. Supposedly on 3's and 5's both it can make them more "four'ish"

According to Tom Condon at least, Sx 9 can seem more 4ish also due to the melancholic longing, but I don't care for him as a resource tbh and I don't particularly experience this longing (and it's also very vague?). I think according to his stuff I'd be Sp Dom, and WoE I'd be Sx Dom or something though.

 

[misfortuneteller]

Is this actually a joke I'm not getting? Because it's false. One of 9's core defining traits is a lack of awareness of their anger

The 9w1's secondary vice is anger due to their 1 wing. Learn actual enneagram and then mabye you won't change your type every couple of days.

''One – The Reformer wants to improve what is. Passion: Anger (Resentment)
Nothing is as it should be! When I become aware of my Passion of Anger active in me, I will likely see that it is a result of my effort to change or fix what is. I am angry at someone or myself for not being good enough. Awareness brings the Virtue of Serenity.''

The enneagram authors are notoriously bad at describing 6s and 9s accurately hence why they often mistype as something else. They assume that the 9w1 not expressing their anger equals them not having it from the get-go.

9w8s being more aware than 9w1s generally.

The 9w8's secondary vice is lust and the 8's need for justice looks like anger but it's not.

''Eight – The Challenger moves forcefully ahead with conviction. Passion: Lust (intensity).
Asserting myself is a natural way to control events and the people around me. When I become aware of this active in me, I can see that I act and react aggressively in order to protect my own vulnerability. Awareness brings the Virtue of Innocence.''

 

[misfortuneteller]

Pretty aware of my anger. Not sure I understand that concept. What's the point of stuffing away anger constantly? (9w8 sx)

Pay no mind to this person. It is clearly one of the many alt accounts that have been around here lately.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Pay no mind to this person. It is clearly one of the many alt accounts that have been around here lately.

Lol yeah, okay. Sure. If you say so.
[MENTION=35920]Ixaerus[/MENTION] evidently I'm also a Disney Princess now

 

[Earl Grey]

evidently I'm also a Disney Princess now

T͉͋͌ͫ ̻͓̙̲͆ͯ̅ͧ̚H̫̼̗̜̦̬̑ ̤͙̮̠̹̩͘E͓̪̮͍ͤ͂ͧ̃́͝ ̛̣͈̦̼̀͒̅̀R̫̩̠̓̔ͧ́ ̯͓̗̤̖̹ͪͬ͛̆ͅE͙̝͖̓̊̓ͫ͗̆̆ ̡͖̥͇̗̃ͦ̍̀̂ͪ ̹̝ͦ͐ͥͦ͌ͫ̀ ͣͪͧ͑҉C̫͇̖͕̟̆ͩ̍͒ ͕͉̫͉̼̊ͮͫͦ͊A̖̼͒ͣ͌̏̓ ̸ͤ̓̎N͙͂̔ͅ ̬ ͉̜͖̣̮̪͍̔̓̈ ͕̂̅ͥͬ̾ͮͣO̴͍̖̟̬̠͈ͥ̂̐ͩ ̻͇̋ͪ̽͂N̶̻̗̺̝̜͉̒̌̈́ͣͅ L̖̭ͭͤ͋̏͊ ̻͚̘̮̈́̋̋͒̀̍͘Y̭̗̖̋̇̿ͭͩ̐͞ ̠͓̘͘ͅ ̖̖̀͂̈ͣ́ ͎͕̯̩͚̽͒̅ͨ̋͝ͅB̟̪̙͂̂ͅ ̜̰͔̙̃ͨ̋͋ͨ̆͆ͅË́́͊ͦ̄̋ͧ ̞̒ͩ̊ͯ͑͛ ̘͍̦̀ͅ ̞̥͉̙Ō̤̳̦̿͛ ̩̂ͤ̑ͤͩN̞͍̗̯̫̖ ͖̭̻̂͛̃̆Ë̦́̐̽

 

[Mind Maverick]

The 9w1's secondary vice is anger due to their 1 wing.

That doesn't alter the fact that 9s primary issues are with repression, which is unconscious. A 9w1 is still a 9 core, not a 1. Additionally, 1, 9, and 8 are all gut triad, they're all anger.

Learn actual enneagram and then mabye you won't change your type every couple of days.

Oh. Hmm. Do you watch me that intensely? Seems obsessive...

In any case, even if I did change my type it doesn't automatically indicate that I have any actual doubts pertaining to it.

Seriously though, take a chill pill or something.

''One – The Reformer wants to improve what is. Passion: Anger (Resentment)
Nothing is as it should be! When I become aware of my Passion of Anger active in me, I will likely see that it is a result of my effort to change or fix what is. I am angry at someone or myself for not being good enough. Awareness brings the Virtue of Serenity.''

The enneagram authors are notoriously bad at describing 6s and 9s accurately hence why they often mistype as something else. They assume that the 9w1 not expressing their anger equals them not having it from the get-go.

The 9w8's secondary vice is lust and the 8's need for justice looks like anger but it's not.

''Eight – The Challenger moves forcefully ahead with conviction. Passion: Lust (intensity).
Asserting myself is a natural way to control events and the people around me. When I become aware of this active in me, I can see that I act and react aggressively in order to protect my own vulnerability. Awareness brings the Virtue of Innocence.''

There's a lot coming to mind in response to this, but since you know so much about Enneagram and are so confident that I haven't learned anything about it, I'm going to ask...how is the initial statement
"All these supposed 9w1s that don't feel angry are integrated 6s. The 9w1's secondary vice is wrath and they are very aware of it."
accurate in any way shape form or fashion? Why would an integrating 6 lack awareness of their anger, especially even more than 9s when they lack the repression issues or problems with inertia, trying to maintain inner harmony, etc. and not experience the "upset" of emotions like anger? From where would this "6 lack of awareness of anger" even begin?

If they assume 9w1s don't have anger, then do enlighten me - what is gut triad? Basically every decent source on 9s talks about how they have anger problems they're unaware of.

Furthermore, you're focusing on the "1's Wrath" while not even mentioning the core type's vice, which is Sloth--which is referring to intertia, not laziness. If you like to go by those vices, why are you bypassing the core vice in your statements (which contributes to the explanation behind their lack of awareness, btw)?

Honestly, the vices are kind of garbage anyways.

 

[Mind Maverick]

T͉͋͌ͫ ̻͓̙̲͆ͯ̅ͧ̚H̫̼̗̜̦̬̑ ̤͙̮̠̹̩͘E͓̪̮͍ͤ͂ͧ̃́͝ ̛̣͈̦̼̀͒̅̀R̫̩̠̓̔ͧ́ ̯͓̗̤̖̹ͪͬ͛̆ͅE͙̝͖̓̊̓ͫ͗̆̆ ̡͖̥͇̗̃ͦ̍̀̂ͪ ̹̝ͦ͐ͥͦ͌ͫ̀ ͣͪͧ͑҉C̫͇̖͕̟̆ͩ̍͒ ͕͉̫͉̼̊ͮͫͦ͊A̖̼͒ͣ͌̏̓ ̸ͤ̓̎N͙͂̔ͅ ̬ ͉̜͖̣̮̪͍̔̓̈ ͕̂̅ͥͬ̾ͮͣO̴͍̖̟̬̠͈ͥ̂̐ͩ ̻͇̋ͪ̽͂N̶̻̗̺̝̜͉̒̌̈́ͣͅ L̖̭ͭͤ͋̏͊ ̻͚̘̮̈́̋̋͒̀̍͘Y̭̗̖̋̇̿ͭͩ̐͞ ̠͓̘͘ͅ ̖̖̀͂̈ͣ́ ͎͕̯̩͚̽͒̅ͨ̋͝ͅB̟̪̙͂̂ͅ ̜̰͔̙̃ͨ̋͋ͨ̆͆ͅË́́͊ͦ̄̋ͧ ̞̒ͩ̊ͯ͑͛ ̘͍̦̀ͅ ̞̥͉̙Ō̤̳̦̿͛ ̩̂ͤ̑ͤͩN̞͍̗̯̫̖ ͖̭̻̂͛̃̆Ë̦́̐̽

We can just merge and be 9 Sx twinsies
Unleash your Sx, Ix. It's in there...somewhere...maybe...

 

[Earl Grey]

We can just merge and be 9 Sx twinsies
Unleash your Sx, Ix. It's in there...somewhere...maybe...

​

 

[Mind Maverick]

​

Lmao

 

[misfortuneteller]

That doesn't alter the fact that 9s primary issues are with repression, which is unconscious. A 9w1 is still a 9 core, not a 1. Additionally, 1, 9, and 8 are all gut triad, they're all anger.

Dude, I never denied that they were repressing the anger just that claiming that they aren't aware of it is nonsense.

Oh. Hmm. Do you watch me that intensely? Seems obsessive...

I'm barely here, jog on.

In any case, even if I did change my type it doesn't automatically indicate that I have any actual doubts pertaining to it.

What?

Seriously though, take a chill pill or something.

I won't take a chill pill. You are accusing me of not knowing what i'm talking about.

Why would an integrating 6 lack awareness of their anger

This is because they aren't in the anger triad. Claiming that a 9 especially a 9w1 doesn't know that they are angry is one of the dumbest things ever written. Real 9w1s constantly bang on about their repressed anger in the 9 communities and they seem to be covertly resentful. The 9w8 is more of the pseudo-positive 9 since we are a blend of the 9's numbing out and the 8's denial.

Furthermore, you're focusing on the "1's Wrath" while not even mentioning the core type's vice, which is Sloth--which is referring to intertia, not laziness. If you like to go by those vices, why are you bypassing the core vice in your statements (which contributes to the explanation behind their lack of awareness, btw)?

There is no point in focusing on the main vice because both 9s have that main vice. What sets them apart is the 9w1 is focused on their anger after the sloth and the 9w8 isn't. Every newbie assumes that the 8's are the most angry type at first since they are aggressive and their need for justice seems like anger.

Honestly, the vices are kind of garbage anyways.

You won't be able to tell them apart without looking at the vices. INFP 9w8s often look like 9w1s for example.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Dude, I never denied that they were repressing the anger just that claiming that they aren't aware of it is nonsense.


I'm barely here, jog on.



What?



I won't take a chill pill. You are accusing me of not knowing what i'm talking about.


This is because they aren't in the anger triad. Claiming that a 9 especially a 9w1 doesn't know that they are angry is one of the dumbest things ever written. Real 9w1s constantly bang on about their repressed anger in the 9 communities and they seem to be covertly resentful. The 9w8 is more of the pseudo-positive 9 since we are a blend of the 9's numbing out and the 8's denial.



There is no point in focusing on the main vice because both 9s have that main vice. What sets them apart is the 9w1 is focused on their anger after the sloth and the 9w8 isn't. Every newbie assumes that the 8's are the most angry type at first since they are aggressive and their need for justice seems like anger.


You won't be able to tell them apart without looking at the vices. INFP 9w8s often look like 9w1s for example.

Okay. Cool, have a nice day. I don't really have time for this conversation.

 

[I Tonya]

When you don't wanna do anything, you just sit on the bed and stare at the TV and your phone and you're perfectly content without talkinv. (Even if I try to convince you to do a fun activity)

 

[Kanra Jest]

Sigh.

As 9w8 sx I just don't relate that well to 9 I guess, I disdain pacifism

Though the numbing out does apply, like when people wrong me and I cut them out or distance and stop feeling anything.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Sigh.

As 9w8 sx I just don't relate that well to 9 I guess, I disdain pacifism

Though the numbing out does apply, like when people wrong me and I cut them out or distance and stop feeling anything.

I think cutting them out and not feeling anything is normal / human. For 9s it's essentially Low Emotionality in B5 though (not to be mistaken for Neuroticism...it's Openness to Experiences, they don't want to experience the emotions) - anything that disturbs the equilibrium / inner peace, they tend to want to numb out. Sadness, anger, even at times positive things such as excitement.

I used to disdain pacifism and avoidance, but realized that part of why I hated it so much was because I unconsciously was it. I mean, I had no respect whatsoever for it, saw it as weak, would have a visceral reaction toward it back then - but what I didn't see in myself was that I was using anger as a backbone, which wasn't healthy or conducive to promoting healthy relationships.

I can relate to...not relating to some of the 9 things, I'm definitely not as passive nor passive-aggressive as your average / textbook 9 still, but I also was almost entirely unaware of the pushover / passive side of myself, and the anger pertaining to it, until introspecting via Enneagram. I knew I was angry a lot of course, I just didn't know I was angry for those things or in those areas. I wouldn't have seen myself as someone who struggles to say no, either; but in hindsight, examining my memories, I did. In my mind's eye, back then, I would have said things such as, "I'm either a leader or a loner. Period. I don't follow." or, "I'm not going to start shit, but I'm also not taking shit from anyone, either." I also was raised to be more aggressive / assertive by an ENTJ 8, though. We were close af, very much an Sx connection and was "us against the world," and I "adopted" a lot of his traits back then...and I think it masked my 9ness more on top of the heavy 8 wing / Sx, but even back then he used to get on my case for using anger as a spine.

Sharing with the point or intention of asking if perhaps there is something similar there for you - either an Sx connection with someone more aggressive / assertive, or lack of awareness in those areas, or doing things via anger. According to WoE, Sx 9 seeking and merging with more assertive or aggressive types is not even uncommon.

Why do you type as 9? Curious.

 

[misfortuneteller]

Sigh.

As 9w8 sx I just don't relate that well to 9 I guess, I disdain pacifism

Though the numbing out does apply, like when people wrong me and I cut them out or distance and stop feeling anything.

This is because most of the 9s that have commented on here are 9w1s. How about starting a thread called 'You know you're a 9w8 when?''

 

[Kanra Jest]

I think cutting them out and not feeling anything is normal / human. For 9s it's essentially Low Emotionality in B5 though (not to be mistaken for Neuroticism...it's Openness to Experiences, they don't want to experience the emotions) - anything that disturbs the equilibrium / inner peace, they tend to want to numb out. Sadness, anger, even at times positive things such as excitement.

I used to disdain pacifism and avoidance, but realized that part of why I hated it so much was because I unconsciously was it. I mean, I had no respect whatsoever for it, saw it as weak, would have a visceral reaction toward it back then - but what I didn't see in myself was that I was using anger as a backbone, which wasn't healthy or conducive to promoting healthy relationships.

I can relate to...not relating to some of the 9 things, I'm definitely not as passive nor passive-aggressive as your average / textbook 9 still, but I also was almost entirely unaware of the pushover / passive side of myself, and the anger pertaining to it, until introspecting via Enneagram. I knew I was angry a lot of course, I just didn't know I was angry for those things or in those areas. I wouldn't have seen myself as someone who struggles to say no, either; but in hindsight, examining my memories, I did. In my mind's eye, back then, I would have said things such as, "I'm either a leader or a loner. Period. I don't follow." or, "I'm not going to start shit, but I'm also not taking shit from anyone, either." I also was raised to be more aggressive / assertive by an ENTJ 8, though. We were close af, very much an Sx connection and was "us against the world," and I "adopted" a lot of his traits back then...and I think it masked my 9ness more on top of the heavy 8 wing / Sx, but even back then he used to get on my case for using anger as a spine.

Sharing with the point or intention of asking if perhaps there is something similar there for you - either an Sx connection with someone more aggressive / assertive, or lack of awareness in those areas, or doing things via anger. According to WoE, Sx 9 seeking and merging with more assertive or aggressive types is not even uncommon.

Why do you type as 9? Curious.

I type as 9 because what I tend to want is peace and harmony but if someone is aggressive I'll just be aggressive back to settle it(But the type 9's fear is of loss of connection and that tends to be something I've struggled with). It's a defense thing. It's probably a result of my upbringing which involved a lot of yelling and fighting. I've been walked over and passive before, and I have struggled to say no as well as gotten attached to people sometimes. One day I just got sick of it. And you're right, I was raised by an ESTJ 8 and 3 who's traits I may have adopted. In my case I adapted so I won't be scorned for not being able to keep up, or matching the intensity to not be a pushover nor to feel controlled which I hate. Idk if it was a great connection, not always healthy for me, but on the other hand it's all I'd known for quite a while. If anything competitiveness and self defense brings out my aggression. He also was a very competitive and aggressive person.

As for numbing out, yeah, pretty accurate when it comes to pain I can't deal with I just start to numb it all out. Even people. Which has upset others.

This is because most of the 9s that have commented on here are 9w1s. How about starting a thread called 'You know you're a 9w8 when?''

Eh. i don't think there's enough 9w8's to keep such a thread going.

 

[Mind Maverick]

When this is you in an unhealthy state.

And when it's even worse...

Level 7: Can be highly repressed, undeveloped, and ineffectual. Feel incapable of facing problems: become obstinate, dissociating self from all conflicts. Neglectful and dangerous to others.
Level 8: Wanting to block out of awareness anything that could affect them, they dissociate so much that they eventually cannot function: numb, depersonalized.
Level 9: They finally become severely disoriented and catatonic, abandoning themselves, turning into shattered shells.