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You aren't an INFP.

fetus

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I'm so glad this thread is getting so much praise. It makes me feel like I'm actually doing something progressive in the typology world, and making a difference. Maybe we'll cause a ripple throughout the forums. Maybe I'll be a legend. :blush:

Anyways, I think ISFJs are likely to show an ENFP face to the world, or at least appear that way at times. Then again, the world seems to think that anyone who is goofy and imaginative is an ENFP. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm a fantastic prank-caller and I'm great at thinking stuff up on the fly. Poems, ditties, songs, phrases - it just rolls off and I'm creating stuff as I'm saying it; even before a sentence is over I've taken it in a different direction and made a joke. I can make up stories, and it makes people feel better. Among my best friends, I truly am the entertainer.

For any ISFJs who feel like the above paragraph, here's a description from the Socionics SEI-Fe description (ISFp correlates to ISFJ in MBTI, though they are different systems). My lovely "introverts who don't always act like introverts." :heart: I have bolded for you some of the things that could lead ISFJs into an ENFP mistype.



I left out some other paragraphs, so if you're interested in a little more, just search for SEI-Fe description. Personally, I agree so much with this description. This is definitely how I act around my best friends, giving me that stereotypical "ENFP charm." When I'm really comfortable, I definitely act ENFP. But deep down, it's that Si/Fe motivation, and that need for peace and comfort. Best friends don't know that after I hang out with them for a long time and act like an ENFP, I go home and crash. ;)

Hope this helps someone.
 

fetus

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Another thing I want to point out, while I'm on a roll:

There's a difference between shitty function descriptions and what the functions actually are. Think of these as foods. Bad interpretations of the functions are candy fruit flavors. You know how you taste a grape lollipop, and then you eat an actual grape, wondering how they came from each other? It's kind of like that. The shitty function descriptions were originally derived from the actual functions, but eventually became perverted and twisted into their own thing. :)
 

Dreamer

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You know something I know you can lead the charge on, fetus? Let's get back to abolishing those function stereotypes once and for all, ugh! I'll do it with you :D

First, I want to remove the word "possibilities" from Ne, then, remove "tradition" from Si. It'll be fun!

If we could do that, and come to some descriptions that really get to the meat of the functions, that would really shake things up.
 

Yama

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Ok, as promised I'm gonna go through kohai-chan's function descriptions and talk about how I relate or differ (since I'm too much of a loser to write my own super-cool thing off the top of my head). That way you can see the different "flavorings" of an ISFJ 9 (SEI-Si) and an ISFJ 2 (SEI-Fe). :D

I'm Queen of Nostalgia. I hold on to everything that reminds me of old times, good and bad. I'm always thinking about my past, and if I'm not careful, I can get stuck there in obsessive reflection. All that thinking makes me very self-aware.

I feel like Si is kind of like this constant, living nostalgia. It doesn't always feel that way all the time because it's kind of like my "natural mode," but it's very much present.

I have a green box. A very dear friend once gave me a bunch of little trinkets in this box as a present. She lives on the other side of the country now for school. Sometimes she sends me postcards. I put these postcards in my little green box. :heart: This friend of mine I suspect is also an ISFJ (at the very least, ISxJ). I love getting these postcards from her. They mean so much to me, and I save every one. I used to sleep with one of them that was especially important to me under my pillow, but I got scared that I might crumple or ruin it somehow so I stopped doing that.

Anyway, if you point at literally anything in my room and say "where/when/how/why did you get that," I can answer that. My sister won me that Hello Kitty at the state fair in October a couple years ago, we went on a Thursday because Thursdays are free admission, I went with my mom, my sister, and my INTJ friend, etc. etc. I bought those three eeveelution plushies at a convention three years ago, at first I only bought one of them but ended up withdrawing money to go back and buy the others. That day I went with my ISTJ friend and his mom, and I remember work tried to call both of us in while we were there and we sat in the car laughing because we hated McDonalds anyway. And so on. With everything. Every CD, every shirt, every trinket, everything hanging on my wall. I remember everything's stories.

It's not so much that I'm always actively thinking about the past, but that I'm always living with this kind of nostalgia. "The last time I was here, that thing was lying over there, and now it's moved over here." I always notice what's changed. Sometimes even years after some change has occurred, it still feels "new" to me. Oh, the doctor's office added this glass divider 7 years ago? Still seems like yesterday to me, since I've been visiting this doctor since I was x years old. That kind of thing. Everyone's like "wtf? That's not new" and I'm like sorry but it used to not be that way so it still seems new to me hah.

I love to make up my own traditions, and adhere to the ones that bring me joy. If my family does something every Thanksgiving, then I always want to do it that way, even if a more intriguing opportunity arises.

God yes. A few years ago, I worked at McDonalds, and they made me work on Christmas (we were not allowed to request holdiays off, and you got fired for not showing up). I was super sulky the whole time. I'm not a Christian, I don't care about the religous or gift-giving/receiving part of the holiday. I was sulky and upset because every single Christmas since my birth I always go to my grandparents' house for dinner. And I wasn't able to do that this year. It bummed me the fuck out beyond belief. This was something I always do, so it was really important to me. I'm still bitter as hell years later.

I love starting new "traditions." I used to have Musical Tuesdays one semester with my two ISTJ friends, because we all had no classes at the same time in the afternoon on Tuesday. They'd come over and we'd eat lunch and watch a musical at my house. It was our weekly tradition. Those were the days, I miss them dearly.

When something happens in my life, I remember the exact details. I can tell you the very day I had my first kiss, my first day in detention, my first period, the day in 7th grade I got in a fight with [classmate], the days I was admitted and discharged from the hospital, the day I saw a fight happen at my church, they start and end dates of all my romantic relationships. If I can't tell you the exact day, then I at least know the month and year. Every era in my life has its own distinct flavor and feel in my mind, almost like an emotional "scent."

I remember details more than I do dates; there are some things I can't remember month/year for unless I have it recorded somewhere. But I can describe to you how I felt the morning I woke up in August 2008, the excruciating pain I was in, what I had to do to get someone's attention, what it was like getting driven to the hospital, being admitted, the tubes, the room I was in with the newborn baby, watching Fresh Prince every night, not being allowed to eat for 8 days and how horrible that was, in lots of detail if I had the time and someone was curious enough to listen.

I have this infamously amazing story that I've told over and over again. My ISTJ says "it just keeps getting better and better." I tell it fucking amazing in person, but I don't think it would come off as well over writing, because a lot of that "real-time charisma" plays into making it so great. It's an incredibly detailed account of a day in 2007 (I was in 7th grade) when TERRIBLE EVENT after TERRIBLE EVENT kept happening to me, going to the Little White Room at school, the book report, oh my god I want to tell this story so fucking bad but I just CAN'T do it justice in writing, it has to be done in person so badly. But yes, these incredibly detailed accounts--they're fuckin' real.

Maybe that's why Si has a reputation for being "the storytelling function." I've got some damn good stories.

I could make a playlist with all the songs I listened to in every era from 6th grade on. I even named the different eras in my life. I love to listen to all the songs I used to listen to, in order to relive that time, but I'm afraid to do it too much; I don't want to tarnish the connections I have with the past. I never buy the same deodorant, shampoo, or conditioner twice, because I want to preserve them as unique artifacts of my personal history. The worst thing would be to merge new experiences into old ones - how, then, could I hold fast to my memories? Those ties would be forever lost.

As I addressed in my post earlier--I'm the exact same omfg. :wink:

Change can be difficult for me. I like being comfortable with what's safe and what's pleasant. My first reaction to change is, "Oh no!" If something is working well, I see little point in switching it up. That doesn't mean I hate progress - I love it! I just think that altering a system that is perfectly fine could likely throw things into chaos, and I just want to be peaceful, safe, and comfortable. Changes from book to movie and movie to book really bother me.

Oh same for sure. My gut reaction is to try and cling on to what I know and ground myself, and feel safe and comfortable before analyzing what this New Thing is, and whether I feel comfortable enough with it or not. I don't like sudden change. I like to know what I'm getting into.

And on that note, that's why the transition from high school to college was the most stressful, unhealthy stage of my life. I was incredibly depressed, more so than I've ever been at any other point in my life. Facebook posts, snippets of journal writing, etc. from that period of my life are all incredibly dark, moreso than what I even actually remember. It's kind of frightening. Eventually, I got used to "college life", adapted, and am now much better. ... for now. I've expressed a lot of insecurities in my private blog on this forum recently about my fears for post-college life because, well, that's another huge fucking change...

And I am 100% for progressive change, or any other kind of change that I'm comfortable with. I just don't like bad surprises. Who does? :wink:

And the book is almost always better than the movie. ... Whichever came first is always better. Almost always.

I'm a true romantic. I spend a lot of time in my head, lost, imagining the past and making up things that didn't even happen. I'm always going back to places from my past. I take walks to my old schools and wish I could relive a day or two there. I'm forever a childlike spirit, because deep down, I'm kind of afraid to grow up and leave everything that makes me feel alive. Part of me wants to become a teacher because I love being with kids - they remind me of my childhood, and it keeps me from growing old. I remember how I used to feel when I was in 5th grade, so I want to help people of that age because it's easier for me to empathize.

I wouldn't describe myself as "romantic," but I relate a shit ton to what you're saying here. I like to get in my car and drive past my old houses, reminisce, think about what's happening there now, who's living there, what my old room looks like... drive past my old elementary school, think about my childhood memories, notice how different the playground looks now... that sort of thing. It usually makes me really sad. Nostalgia in general usually makes me sad, because I miss the innocence and naivety of childhood. I don't want to grow up. I wanna be stupid and happy, not smart and sad. :(

Omg kohai-chan... sometimes I daydream about what it would be like if I somehow got teleported back in time, and was like 7 years old again, but with all of the knowledge that I have now. And what I would do. Do you ever do that?? Like I'd totally kick Sydney W.'s ass if she treated me the way she did if I somehow went back in time but was still "mentally" my present self. I think it's fun. :laugh:

I could never be a teacher. But I have been a supplemental instructor, and that was the best job I've ever had :blush:

I feel very emotional when I see someone struggling with things I used to struggle with. I connect with hurting people by scanning my mind for times I felt that way. I'm extremely lazy and procrastinating, but I know exactly how I could get organized if I had the discipline. Why would I want to be rigid and organized when I could be relaxing in my happy place? (I think happy places can be very Si, by the way.)

I'm less this way than you are, probably because I have a weird relationship with Fe. I'm usually fairly indifferent about people, but I also usually never see anyone's suffering firsthand, since I'm so closed off and usually just stick to myself and rarely leave home. So there's not much opportunity for it. And I usually don't feel too much pain for others, because I know if I let myself, it's gonna hurt, so I just kind of... stay disconnected from it I guess? I don't get involved because I know that if I do, it's going to be painful and there won't be any going back.

I definitely differ from you on an organization scale; OCPD, strong 1 wing, what have you. I'm too organized. People get stressed out because of how organized I am. Wash your hands before touching my game controllers. Don't pet the dog and then touch me without washing your hands first. Be careful when you eat and don't get crumbs everywhere! DON'T EAT THAT ON MY BED I SLEEP THERE AND YOU'RE GETTING CRUMBS ON IT!!! Don't get pizza grease all over my computer mouse!!! WAIT HOLD ON I need to get this piece of hair off the monopoly board before you take your turn. Lists, lists, lists. All homework done at least a day in advance. I'm so stressed out all the time, 0/10 not recommended.

I have been keeping a journal every day for over three years, and I read these entries all the time. It's so rewarding to see how much I've grown and changed, to see how different I am now. I go through life at a slow, peaceful and gradual pace; sometimes it takes some sudden external stimuli (like a photo) to make me aware of how much has changed. I'm clumsy and not very observant, unless there's a change in something or someone I care about - then I notice pretty quickly.

I kept a journal all throughout high school; I go back and re-read it sometimes. Past me embarrasses me so much I can't stand it lol. I've tried keeping a regular journal since, but I don't have the time or resolve anymore. My blog I guess is the closes thing we're gonna get, which is good enough. :p

I definitely like a slow, comfortable pace. When I worked at McDonalds and at Fry's as a customer service rep, I was damn good at my job. Or at least that's what people have told me. I never believed it or saw it until after I quit and was able to look at it from the outside. But those were fast-paced jobs. They stressed me out too much. It was too chaotic and made me want to die. My supplemental instructor job was by far the best; relaxed, slow-paced, and much more personal. I got to talk with people one-on-one or in small groups, and had some regulars come to my help sessions throughout the semester. I got to help them, and they really appreciated me. One of them even bought me a present when she went on vacation. :blush:

I liked it because I didn't wanna stab myself at the end of every day like I did with the other jobs. I made a very bad decision once after I had a terrible day working at Fry's and I'm glad it didn't become a habit.

I love telling stories about my past. I can become very animated and excited when I share and recall memories. I want to be alone a lot, though, because the world throws so much stimuli at me, and I need time to process and reflect when things are calm. I'm very sensitive in this way (an HSP). When someone hits me with major information, I freeze up and stare into the distance because it's just so much to chew on.

RE: what I said about Si storytelling above. :D And how it's much better in person! YES!! Animation! That's it! That real-time charisma!!

I need like, 72 hours of alone time for every 2 hours spent with a person lol. It's unsustainable. :( I'm never not burnt out.

---

Response to your Fe paragraph coming in part 2 because this is already too long. :laugh:

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing I want to point out, while I'm on a roll:

There's a difference between shitty function descriptions and what the functions actually are. Think of these as foods. Bad interpretations of the functions are candy fruit flavors. You know how you taste a grape lollipop, and then you eat an actual grape, wondering how they came from each other? It's kind of like that. The shitty function descriptions were originally derived from the actual functions, but eventually became perverted and twisted into their own thing. :)

I love this, I do, but have you considered: artificial banana tastes 1000% better than regular banana

this isn't really related I'm just very passionate about it
 

Yama

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As promised, PART 2: ~Fe edition~ of an ISFJ 9 Si subtype's compare and contrasted response to an ISFJ 2 Fe subtype. :wink:

I'm an extremely emotional person, and my feelings tend to overflow. On the outside, I can seem calm and distant, sometimes even critical, but I'm very easily hurt and I'll cry when that happens. I don't go around telling everyone about myself, but the people very close to me - my three or four best friends - hear a whole lot about my emotions. I'm afraid of being a burden to them when it comes to feelings.

Fe is where more of our differences will show--you being an Fe subtype and being a 2, and me relying more heavily on Si and being a 9, that is. I do think I'm emotional, especially when actually compared to a real thinking type (like my ISTJ friends). But my feelings don't really overflow. I have the unhealthy tendency to bottle everything up and to refrain from expressing what I feel. Feelings can be overbearing. Feelings can cause pain and panic and discomfort if I let them flow however they want. There are lots of bad feelings. So I tend to control them and subdue them; I only outwardly express the positive (and usually not even that gets expressed if I'm not around someone I'm friendly with).

I can go an entire day at school without saying a single word or making a single expression. I'll go to class and go home, and everything I'm thinking and feeling happens in my head and packed away without showing it. I'm much more "bubbly" around friends, never when I'm alone in public. Then I'm very much just focused on minding my own business and staying out of the way and not drawing attention to myself. I probably appear very distant at first; usually when people try to talk to me, I think to myself "oh god please no I just want to be left alone" and reply out of politeness but suck so badly at carrying on the conversation that it dies quickly.

I'm a lot more open on the forum, because it's a personality forum, we're supposed to talk about ourselves! I'm not nearly as open as I am in real life. Muuuch more private there. I never talk about myself in person unless prompted, ever. On here, that's all I can talk about! :happy2:

I vent often to ISTJ. He never responds, but he does listen. I don't expect him to respond, he doesn't like feelings. Or sharing feelings anyway. But I won't share my insecurities related to anything like, "I'm scared that you're going to forget about me after graduation." Nope. He will never know. I'm keeping that shit to myself. Actually, I did tell him and said he didn't have to respond, so he didn't

I'm a huge advocate for social change and justice for all. I reject many traditional values because they cause harm to people. I want the best for all people and for all humanity, so I do my best to champion what is right. I'm someone who believes world peace is possible, if we all just chip in and do what we know is good. This can make me very idealistic. I imagine how the world could be, and I try to work towards it. Sometimes I feel discouraged when nobody else seems to be even trying for a harmonious world.

Ssssssssaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmeeeeeee.

I think a lot about other people's issues. What are their lives like? What are they feeling? I'm very curious about other people. Sometimes I wish I could be invisible and go home with them, just to see how they live. I can look around the big city and feel a sense of wistful sadness - there are so many people out there, and all I'll be is a tiny face in the crowd. The world is full of people who need compassion, and I just can't reach everyone.

I rarely ever think about other people because I don't really talk to anyone or do things with them. I don't like talking to people I don't know and find it awkward to ask them questions in case they find it invasive. I'm also not very curious about others, and forget their names and faces 3 seconds after they introduce themselves to me. I am a Bad Dumb Noodle.

I sometimes do the "invisibility" thing though. I'd love to shadow someone and observe their life, and just be a spectator. Sometimes I'll be driving and think about how in every car, there are people, individual people, who have all lived separate lives, with completely different experiences that have shaped them in different ways. And right now, they're going to a specific place, with specific goals in mind. Maybe the person in that car id going home, and they live in that neighborhood there. Or maybe that person in that car over there is going to the hospital to pick up their mom. Who knows...

I try to be a kind and good person above all, even in the little things. I smile at people when I make eye contact, apologize if I bump in to someone, and say thank you whenever it's necessary. It really upsets me when people don't do these things. Show some respect! Every small deed counts in the grand scheme of things.

I get called kind and sweet a lot, I don't really know if I am those things though. Usually when I'm kind it's because I feel obligated to be, not because I'm altruistic or anything. I think I'm really selfish. But today, a girl in my stats class wanted to do homework with me tomorrow. There's another girl I've worked on homework with who also wants to, but she doesn't get out until an hour later. So I texted her saying even if I finish before she's out of class, I'll wait for her and help her with it. Honestly I'd rather just go home. But I'd feel really bad and shitty if I didn't help her, since she's helped me, and she was super grateful. That will be my day tomorrow.

I want to be who I am, who I was made to be. Nobody ever changed the world by being normal. We are all born with different gifts, and I want to encourage everyone to cultivate them.

I'm rather pessimistic, I don't know if I really have a gift. I don't have any talents and I am in no way special. I like being average because I don't like to stand out, but yes, I do want to be free to be who I am without hiding myself. Maybe one day it will be safe enough. I don't really encourage others, I leave them alone since I like to be left alone. I wish I could change the world, but I'm not strong enough or smart enough. I'll watch from the sidelines though.

I can walk into a room and feel what's going on with my heart, even if my head doesn't yet have knowledge. Maybe I am an empath. Being around so many people is very draining. It's so hard to constantly take in everyone's moods, feelings, and reactions. I become overloaded with Fe, and I need to go be alone to relax back into my Si and reflect. This happens a lot.

I'm attuned to the emotional atmosphere around me, but I don't think I'm an empath. My Fe's weird, sometimes it doesn't feel right. I think my other functions kind of beat it up after I've been hurt in the past. Si doesn't wanna let it get hurt again so it doesn't like to let Fe come out to play. I'm way more concerned with social dynamics than my ISTJs though.

ISFJ: I have a problem with a person
ISTJ: Tell them they're a dick
ISFJ: ...no
ISTJ: So you're just gonna suffer in silence? That's stupid.
ISFJ: But I can't be mean to them, that's mean

It can definitely backfire sometimes. I had a friend (another ISFJ) a few years ago who... well, I didn't like the way I felt like I was being "used" in our friendship. She'd always come to me with problems and I was always there for her, but whenever I tried to reach out to her, she disappeared. She either never replied, or she changed the subject. It just kept getting worse and worse because of the resentment I started harboring. Eventually, I "door slammed" her, after some prompting from other friends--reluctantly. And politely. I explained to her calmly what I was feeling, and said we could still be friends, just "less close."

And I still feel fucking shitty for it. I'm sure it hurt her. I'm sure she cried herself to sleep that night. I was an asshole. I still feel really bad. And I feel guilty that I feel relieved.

I offer myself out to people for them to talk, but I'm actually terrible with other people's feelings. I'm so comfortable with my own emotions, but with other people, there's a block. It hurts, because I want to help, but I'm just so internally-focused. One day I'll know just what to say. I hope.

How do otehr feeligns

Please don't cry around me I will feel 20000% responsible for you and simultaneously not know what to do so I'll probably start crying too
 

Yama

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*takes deep breath* phew okay that's over. That took a lot longer than I was expecting. [MENTION=24479]themightyfetus[/MENTION] There ya go, you can use any of this that you'd like in your flavors of the ISFJ project. :D I thought it was really interesting where we were alike and where we differed. If you ever have time at some point (because god those were long...) it'd be cool to know your general thoughts and musings on our similarities/differences. But jesus am I long-winded sometimes.
 

Forever

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I don't know a lot of irl INFPs, so I'm not disagreeing with you on your observations, but when it comes to stereotypes as opposed to reality, I haven't seen INFPs get those stereotypes applied to them. :thinking:

Usually I see that get applied to ISFJs, regardless of whether or not it's true (for either type).

Like in that one thread in the philosophy subforum, the "what type is mostly likely to be religious" one, the winner is ISFJ last I checked. And all of the descriptions peg us as super traditional and conservative and religious (actually that goes for all SJs mostly, especially the ESFJs).

So my point was just to say that stereotypes and reality don't always merge :p


That's good. :nod:

Oh I see it on ISFJ's too. :)

Yeah that's true, also if the type percentages are correct, they have the most people. :D

 

magpie

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I think part of the problem might be that people seem to have a tendency to see Fi as super wavering and uncertain, or at least expect it to be that way.
 

fetus

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I'm creating Enneagram descriptions for all the ISFJs. Will post when I get the chance.
 

Forever

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I think part of the problem might be that people seem to have a tendency to see Fi as super wavering and uncertain, or at least expect it to be that way.

Fi and Ti are judgment functions there and especially since it's introverted, it would make sense to what is wanted and not wanted. Fi users would probably have an easier time knowing what they want than a Ti user would. As Fi always references to the self first.

Fi like Ni is just not understood how it works to get where it's at. Not the end result.

I would blame the aux Ne being their P (how they react to the outer world) to the cause of uncertainty.
 

fetus

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This is a song that represents what it means to be an ISFJ to me. The lyrics and the tone. Very Si and Fe to me. Please give it a listen. What do you think [MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION]? (Sorry I keep mentioning you because you're the other active ISFJ here.)

Sometimes I'm afraid that my need for familiarity and my special loved ones, my fear of being thrust into a new environment, is holding me back. I just want to be home, you know? Where I belong. With the people I know love me. I'm content, and although I want to explore the world, I don't want to be gone too long. If I were to explore, I'd want some familiarity to come with me. My friends. I'd travel with them. I dunno.

I'm at home right now and I see my best friends fairly frequently, but this song is making me homesick. I'm homesick while I'm at home! :cry:


If you're bad at recognizing lyrics, you can read along. MICHAEL BUBLE LYRICS - Home
 

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I love that you made this thread Fetus. Nothing more to add right now but I thought Id say that.
 

mintleaf

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This is a song that represents what it means to be an ISFJ to me. The lyrics and the tone. Very Si and Fe to me. Please give it a listen. What do you think @21lux? (Sorry I keep mentioning you because you're the other active ISFJ here.)

Sometimes I'm afraid that my need for familiarity and my special loved ones, my fear of being thrust into a new environment, is holding me back. I just want to be home, you know? Where I belong. With the people I know love me. I'm content, and although I want to explore the world, I don't want to be gone too long. If I were to explore, I'd want some familiarity to come with me. My friends. I'd travel with them. I dunno.

I'm at home right now and I see my best friends fairly frequently, but this song is making me homesick. I'm homesick while I'm at home! :cry:


If you're bad at recognizing lyrics, you can read along. MICHAEL BUBLE LYRICS - Home

I think this is the Michael Buble song I once told someone got put onto my mp3 player by accident. His Frank Sinatra, et cetera covers annoy me, but I've always liked this song.

I do think INFPs and ISFJs (particularly social subtypes) can share a lot of real common ground and be mistaken for each other...but I'm not sure I'm sold on this being as prevalent as you're suggesting. Also, almost everything in your ISFJ insights post sounds equally INFP. To me, it's a good post on, again, the common ground between the types: on how Si meshes with strong Feeling, whether introverted or extraverted. The Fe part didn't sound particularly Fe or Fi, imo. If anything, it sounded like Fi+Social instinct. There wasn't much I didn't relate to, though I would've phrased stuff differently. But maybe I'm a rare ISFJ 5. :shrug: (I don't really think so)
 

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[MENTION=24479]themightyfetus[/MENTION] don't let me forget to listen to this!! I'm going to a musical in a few with my friend so if I haven't responded to this by tomorrow give me a reminder!
 

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One last thing before this show starts - [MENTION=17424]decrescendo[/MENTION] How would you differentiate ISFJs and INFPs if you don't think fetus' post was distinct enough? What do you think is the final line between the two types, where you're either x or y type?
 

fetus

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ISFJ Enneagram descriptions, types 1 and 2

I'm working on some ISFJ-specific Enneagram descriptions. I've got 1 and 2 so far. Please don't criticize so much - it's all speculation.

1w9 - Some of the most diligent ISFJs. Strongly values reliability and rightness. The 9 need for peace will influence 1w9 to work very hard in order to achieve tranquility. Inner peace is something that can be achieved only through hard work and moral correctness. This belief leads them to extreme self-criticism. These ISFJs are more distant from Fe and are most likely mistaken, by themselves and others, as an ISTJ.

1w2 - More outward than the 1w9. A strong sense of justice combined with a 2 concern for humanity's well-being couples to form social activism. I have a feeling that many activists are ISFJ 1w2s. The "defender" stereotype most likely arises from this. The 1w2 is not passive and could be a little pushy at times. S(he) is dutiful and could, at times, resemble an ESTJ - however, this commanding face is draining to wear for too long; extended use (which social justice often calls for) will lead to burnout.

2w1 - Prominent sense of social rightness, like the 1w2, but more forgiving and gentle. Genuinely enjoys helping others; 2w1 is the true altruist. May adhere to some ISFJ stereotypes, as they want to assist others. These ISFJs can be INFP-ish in their idealistic vision of how the world could be, if they could only achieve it. 2w1 ISFJ is quiet and sensitive, seeking connection with other people. Wants to help humanity, but often feels overwhelmed; 2w1 has limited energy, and prefers to belong to a close group.

2w3 - Immensely caring and kind individual, but is more bubbly than the 2w1. Uses humor and goofiness to win people's love. Has an intense desire to change the world in big ways (could lead to some more INFP idealism), but often admits to having the ulterior motive of recognition for their humanitarian efforts. Once in there social niche, they will do everything to stay there, even if means taking some risks for the amusement of their friends, which goes against the risk-averse ISFJ stereotype. 2w3's ability to be social and the craving for connection gives them an extroverted flair; they are almost always mistaken as extroverts by their friends. Friendly, but may be quiet around new people; as introverts, ISFJ more often craves attention from their nearest and dearest. Common mistypes may even include ESFJ or ENFP, as they are capable of receiving social "energy" from their tight-knit group. Their need for solitude conflicts with their need for love.

Whaddya think? :)
 

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I'm working on some ISFJ-specific Enneagram descriptions. I've got 1 and 2 so far. Please don't criticize so much - it's all speculation.

1w9 - Some of the most diligent ISFJs. Strongly values reliability and rightness. The 9 need for peace will influence 1w9 to work very hard in order to achieve tranquility. Inner peace is something that can be achieved only through hard work and moral correctness. This belief leads them to extreme self-criticism. These ISFJs are more distant from Fe and are most likely mistaken, by themselves and others, as an ISTJ.

1w2 - More outward than the 1w9. A strong sense of justice combined with a 2 concern for humanity's well-being couples to form social activism. I have a feeling that many activists are ISFJ 1w2s. The "defender" stereotype most likely arises from this. The 1w2 is not passive and could be a little pushy at times. S(he) is dutiful and could, at times, resemble an ESTJ - however, this commanding face is draining to wear for too long; extended use (which social justice often calls for) will lead to burnout.

2w1 - Prominent sense of social rightness, like the 1w2, but more forgiving and gentle. Genuinely enjoys helping others; 2w1 is the true altruist. May adhere to some ISFJ stereotypes, as they want to assist others. These ISFJs can be INFP-ish in their idealistic vision of how the world could be, if they could only achieve it. 2w1 ISFJ is quiet and sensitive, seeking connection with other people. Wants to help humanity, but often feels overwhelmed; 2w1 has limited energy, and prefers to belong to a close group.

2w3 - Immensely caring and kind individual, but is more bubbly than the 2w1. Uses humor and goofiness to win people's love. Has an intense desire to change the world in big ways (could lead to some more INFP idealism), but often admits to having the ulterior motive of recognition for their humanitarian efforts. Once in there social niche, they will do everything to stay there, even if means taking some risks for the amusement of their friends, which goes against the risk-averse ISFJ stereotype. 2w3's ability to be social and the craving for connection gives them an extroverted flair; they are almost always mistaken as extroverts by their friends. Friendly, but may be quiet around new people; as introverts, ISFJ more often craves attention from their nearest and dearest. Common mistypes may even include ESFJ or ENFP, as they are capable of receiving social "energy" from their tight-knit group. Their need for solitude conflicts with their need for love.

Whaddya think? :)

One is good I think maybe, I'm just confused when you hit 2... how would you differentiate an ISFJ and an INFJ of each of those subtypes? I think what you say can apply to both types, but you're making it sound like the INFP in a J manner. :unsure:

While Fi may be daydreamers, Fi is selective in individuals favoring the underdog, or the needy and the weak. To let's say an example, there's somebody being overused and abused at work, the INFP will fight for that poor person's right as a unique individual being. INFP's are more like I am the example of how you should treat others, not necessarily like I need to come up with a plan that will require group effort and working with business. Aux Ne won't allow for that really. Inferior Te will only stress them out.

Fe puts people in a group/tribal/collective perspective. The INFJ will focus more on changing the organization's approach to things.
 

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[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] I dunno man. I'll elaborate more tomorrow. Remember, I wrote all this in a composition notebook at school.
 

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[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] I dunno man. I'll elaborate more tomorrow. Remember, I wrote all this in a composition notebook at school.

Okay. Just hope that you know there is still a distinction between the N and the S counterpart. I know S's get a lot of flak. But this is only a hunch, I feel S's care for the immediacy of their group/family/organization being more present/past focused. N's are more idealistic (S's can too, it's just not their forte or even preference really). The importance though is none is better than the other. Although each party would wish on the other to focus on their aspects.

So an ISFJ 2 is more like "I'm just doing what is right, and what is the business of mine and my community." What is in front of me now matters. Flaw: sometimes cannot see the big picture.

INFJ 2 is more like I see people suffering from this, we can't just stand here with how human nature is assumed that a band-aid is going to fix everything; people are complex individuals, blah blah blah. (taking imagination, intuition, experience-based patterns into a grand theory of human nature). Flaw: sometimes people need help right now and making theories without direct and managable application isn't going to help.

Now obviously I am talking from what can be observed from the outer world. The inner worlds of both types cannot be so easily described and maybe ISFJ's feel undermined that their dominant function alone isn't really valued for in of itself.
 

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One last thing before this show starts - [MENTION=17424]decrescendo[/MENTION] How would you differentiate ISFJs and INFPs if you don't think fetus' post was distinct enough? What do you think is the final line between the two types, where you're either x or y type?

I've been thinking about this and don't really have an answer yet...I'm not at all confident about my understanding of the types. I just wanted to say something because I've considered ISTJ, ISFP, and all the INxx types in the past and eventually decided I was overcomplicating things and went back to my original typing.

My main reason for questioning INFP was my identification with Pi. And Si being in the "third position" still doesn't sound exactly right to me, because it makes it sound like Si is "accessed" or "present" less often than Fi and Ne, and I don't think that's the case. I feel like I experience Si all the time. It's just...quieter, and less differentiated, maybe? Although sometimes it's very loud. The other day I was reading about how the idea that all parts of society are interrelated and interdependent led early conservative sociologists to fear that tampering with one part could lead to undermining others, and society as a whole. So these sociologists obviously had no interest in revolution; the idea was that the existing social structures were basically fine and only required moderate reform. (I [and the textbook] am probably oversimplifying things.) And I kinda relate to that fear, and associate it with Si. To me this is what the tradition and "conservatism" of Si is basically about. Anticipating the consequences of tampering with what seems to be functioning well enough, and in the case of Si+F, anticipation of the emotional consequences of deviating from tradition/habit --> a tendency towards nostalgia. For example, having a strong emotional response to a book and becoming very attached to it, re-reading and re-reading it in order to replicate the original response. A faith in the value of the objects/experiences that moved you in the past, fear that you will not form as significant attachments to new ones. In this analogy you could replace "society" with "inner world."
.......I dunno. I hope that makes some sense. Sorry for bringing my sociology homework into this. Also, I just want to say that I think Si-doms can be very innovative, forward-thinking and original.

I believe I'm a Ji type because I know I am always evaluating Si(+Ne) stuff, parsing it for significance according to mostly subjective and constantly-in-flux criteria. (Maybe this criteria is even more subjective and dynamic with ISFPs, given the nature of intuition?)

All of that being said, I pretty much agree with what OrangeAppled said about the functions.

[MENTION=24479]themightyfetus[/MENTION] This is one of the most interesting MBTI threads I've read on here in a long time. I get that it's all speculation and am definitely not trying to be critical. :)
 
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