Why do INTJ/ENTJ's get such a bad rap?

[persianeyes]

so far i've seen positive notes on intj's, very interesting..
I'm very close with an entj and he's very friendly and warm when he wants to be but sometimes i notice he just has a different way of looking at things.
Sometimes he would say things to ppl that would shock me and he finds nothing wrong with it..

 

[eyebyte]

But you see, that's the best part about being an INTJ. We don't even care whether other people like us or not.

I do care - because it affects me.

I don't seem to get it when I cross that line empathetically. Oblivious to what it is that hurts others and many times, especially when I was younger, that people were even hurting. I learned as I got older to detect when others hurt - most of the time - and at first I faked empathy - but its a lot more present these days.... In the words of Pinocchio - "I'm a real boy!!".

 

[Tigerlily]

Where it belongs.

Unless you're a robot or mentally disturbed, I would say that most people care about what their loved ones think of them.

 

[The Ü™]

Because of their functions, INTJs, more than any other types, are probably masters at masking themselves with cold poker faces to protect their more sensitive side. Ni, which is never direct in communicating, and Te, which can manifest itself as blunt and seemingly aggressive, are the masks for the INTJ's tertiary Fi, which is their caring side. And their inferior Se makes the INTJ less confident in expressing themselves or acting directly, even though their Fi leads them to care. So with the Ni and Te combination, an insecure INTJ will appear sarcastic or passive-aggressive. Think of Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice.

Now with the ENTJ, the function orders are reversed. The ENTJ with its dominant will be more outgoing and more likely to put on an image of self-confidence directly in the environment, because tertiary Se comes a bit more naturally to them than the INTJ. Tertiary Se is probably the source of why less developed ENTJs project a fearful dictator-like image to others, because they are very protective of their vulnerable and underdeveloped Fi, which takes the inferior role.

 

[Tigerlily]

Because of their functions, INTJs, more than any other types, are probably masters at masking themselves with cold poker faces to protect their more sensitive side. Ni, which is never direct in communicating, and Te, which can manifest itself as blunt and seemingly aggressive, are the masks for the INTJ's tertiary Fi, which is their caring side. And their inferior Se makes the INTJ less confident in expressing themselves or acting directly, even though their Fi leads them to care. So with the Ni and Te combination, an insecure INTJ will appear sarcastic or passive-aggressive. Think of Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice.

Now with the ENTJ, the function orders are reversed. The ENTJ with its dominant will be more outgoing and more likely to put on an image of self-confidence directly in the environment, because tertiary Se comes a bit more naturally to them than the INTJ. Tertiary Se is probably the source of why less developed ENTJs project a fearful dictator-like image to others, because they are very protective of their vulnerable and underdeveloped Fi, which takes the inferior role.

I think you care what others think. I've seen you pull back to appease others, usually NF's. Why else would you do that if you were a cold and callous robotic INTJ?

 

[INTJMom]

I've noticed how people always seem to assume that INTJ/ENTJ's are heartless cold bastards and I'm here to say that's just not true! Now mind you I am talking about well adjusted NTJ's not mentally unstable ones.

My husband is an INTJ and he's the nicest most decent, caring person I know. For example, when I used to smoke he would say within earshot of our children that if I didn't stop, I would die. Well each time I went outside to smoke I had to endure this speech of his. And when he wasn't home the kids were sure to tell me that they didn't want me to die as well. Well I'm not going to lie and say it didn't break my heart each time I heard this, so I quit and I am so thankful to my family for caring and loving me enough to nag me into quitting. An SFJ acquaintance of mine at the time was mortified when I told her this and didn't see the logic in what my Husband was doing. She and I no longer speak and the ironic thing was that her husband was dying of lung cancer from smoking and she and I quit at the same time. His unfortunate situation mixed with my husband and children is why I no longer smoke.

Fictionally Dr. Cox on Scrubs isn't really a bad guy at all. He just has a different approach compared to an NF as in he doesn't beat around the bush. If I were ill I would want him as my Dr. hands down. Gordon Ramsey I believe is an ENTJ who I also don't think is as "mean" as some would say he is. If I were in jeopardy of losing my shirt I would totally want him to help save my restaurant. I think he really wants to help and if he makes money doing it, then so what? House has his issues, but I don't think he's all that bad either.

If I were stranded on a deserted island or if our city were swarming with flesh eating zombies, I would so want an NTJ around otherwise that would be the end of me.

I don't know many NTJ women and wonder if they are less emotional than their male counterparts? Who would be most likely to greet you with a hug and/or kiss?

Any thoughts on the subject?

Thank goodness SOMEbody likes us!

 

[Tigerlily]

Thank goodness SOMEbody likes us!

I truly do. If would cross over completely if I could, but I'm sure others would disagree so I'll just have to stay borderline and get my feelings hurt from time time. *sigh*

 

[The Ü™]

I think you care what others think. I've seen you pull back to appease others, usually NF's. Why else would you do that if you were a cold and callous robotic INTJ?

Maybe because the INTJ has tertiary Fi that they can't control and are ashamed to have?

(Or maybe I would get banned if I didn't?)

 

[Tigerlily]

Maybe because the INTJ has tertiary Fi?

(Or maybe I would get banned if I didn't?)

hehehehehe!

Still, must mean you like it enough to behave yourself and not make the NF's cry so that you avoid being ousted. Anyway, somewhere in there is some Fi.

 

[eyebyte]

Maybe because the INTJ has tertiary Fi that they can't control and are ashamed to have?

Like the Hulk's anger?

 

[The Ü™]

Like the Hulk's anger?

Precisely.

Bruce Banner is an INTJ, the Hulk is his ESFP shadow!

 

[nottaprettygal]

Unless you're a robot or mentally disturbed, I would say that most people care about what their loved ones think of them.

Of course I care about what my loved ones think of me, but 99.99999% of the population are not loved ones.

 

[eyebyte]

Of course I care about what my loved ones think of me, but 99.99999% of the population are not loved ones.

So what's one more percent?

 

[The Ü™]

So what's one more percent?

99.99999 + 1 = 100.99999

or did you mean...

99.99999 + 0.00001 = 100

 

[eyebyte]

99.99999 + 1 = 100.99999

or did you mean...

99.99999 + 0.00001 = 100

Rounding down the the whole number... fuck decimals.

 

[ladypinkington]

ENTJ's have this way of not even acknowledging your existence until you show interest in their plan or goals or are seen as a useful pawn to get to their goal. it feels like you are nothing unless you can help them achieve their goals.

I am close to slapping one ENTJ girl I know 6 ways to Sunday as she is so freaking smug and disrepectful and oh my gosh- are all ENTJ's full of themselves to no end?

 

[wildcat]

Who said being cold and uncaring was a bad thing?

Jesus

 

[timmyb_84]

INTJ/ENTJ Argument

I doubt anybody still reads this particular thread since the last post wasn't since over a year ago, but I wanted to respond...

I am an INTJ with percentages at:

I - 22%
N - 25%
T - 65%
J - 1%

So it sounds like most people have come to a general consensus that INTJs are not very warm, not all that well-liked, and very independent...

I agree that we are generally not the warmest people. I am a very nice person--very optimistic and I smile all the time. I find humor in almost everything and am rarely in a bad mood. One of my friends told me that I am the most laid-back person he's ever met. However, I just don't really possess the "warm" characteristic--it's just not in my personality for whatever reason, which is ok.

In a group, most people would think that I am very reserved, which is sort of true. I usually have all of my communication go through a particular, very close, friend. I'll crack jokes to that friend or make random comments. If they are good, then that friend usually tells it to everyone else. But I don't talk to that person so that they can transverse the conversation, but rather because I am just comfortable striking up a conversation with them. I will almost never actually purposefully grab the attention of a group.

One good thing about the "T" attribute in INTJ (especially a high % like I have) is that it is easy to make rational and level-headed decisions. I almost never make decisions on a whim or become quickly emotional.

On a side note, I'm going on a date with an ENTJ this weekend. I've read that my ideal match is something like an ESTJ or something. But all of the message boards I've gone to have said that most of the ENTJs and INTJs that they know are dating each other and it has worked out great ... even though this is sort of a counter-intuitive match-up, I think that it has the potential to work because apparently both personality types are extremely intelligent (my IQ is 146 as an adult ... 165 growing up); we both are able to analyze situations very objectively; and we can have intelligent arguments while respecting the other person's side. Additionally, since neither side is all that "warm" we don't really expect any sort of warmth from other people, which is a unique quality that most other personality types would find absurd. Finally, we are opposites in probably the most important component, which is the I/E matchup.

Well, I just thought I'd share, even if nobody ever reads this

 

[Eric B]

Looking at it from the temperament factors, it would be the combination of pragmatic (does what works over what's "right") + directive (task-oriented rather than people-oriented) + structure-focused (also a kind of task-orientation).

This corresponds to, in "Galen" temperament theory, where the "Melancholy-Choleric" and "pure-Choleric" get the worst rap.

From the MBTI dichotomies; T being more "detached" from people than F, J extraverting that T to to the outer world, and also introverting N, which gives subjective visions of action to take.

 

[Queen Kat]

My father is a ENTJ, but he can be friendly from time to time. You should see him with my cat!