[INFJ] When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

[Starry]

It's just really prejudiced to go claiming that it's type related. I don't understand how people here can't see that simple fact.

In a different post you were saying that certain positive qualities were correlated with being INFJ...so would it not follow that certain negative qualities could be correlated as well? <--- I'm not saying anything either way as I personally do not know. I was just curious about your statement/argument alone.

 

[Reverie]

In a different post you were saying that certain positive qualities were correlated with being INFJ...so would it not follow that certain negative qualities could be correlated as well? <--- I'm not saying anything either way as I personally do not know. I was just curious about your statement/argument alone.

Well that's fair. I suppose I personally think the whole tone of this thread is just really unpleasant. I can appreciate some people having negative experiences and venting but I just don't think there is any evidence of this supposed "doorslamming" which I would define as up and going and severing all communication in a significant relationship, which I've never done. Or just being supersentisive and severing friendships erratically. Doesn't happen either. I put up with a lot more than most people comparatively....so I just don't undersrstand. All other types of moving on some have described here on this thread I wouldn't label as "doorslamming" just normal moving on which people do with the levelle of finesse they are individually capable of.
I have plenty of negative traits, being hot tempered when I think people are being picked on being one of them. I am sometimes prone to be self righteous and I do often think I'm right. It's spot on there.I'll even admit to not always expressing negative feelings when I'm working on a project with people, and I can say I keep many relationship polite but at a distance, but never at home if I'm with someone. I think (and you may agree) most of my exes might even say that I could keep some more to myself...you know. I nag. I do that. I'll own that. I have exceedingly high standards of work, and regarding my own personal handling of personal relationships. So those are reported INFJ flaws I'm owning up to. But that said, I always communicate even when my relationships are going badly and not in any demure way, like implied. So that's why I'm very sceptical about this whole "doorslamming" thing.
But I do think the case here is there's hurt feelings and people trying to make sense of their broken relationship with MBTI type theory. Instead of going to accuse INFJs as a group for "doorlsamming" I'd really recommend trying to figure out the more typical type to type miscommunications and what may be the cause as that is usually what makes relationships go sour in the first place. It's sad that there has been tragedies but I wouldn't draw any generalizations about it.
Though I've not read all 88 the posts I read quite enough enough to see that some posters in the thread who complained that theperson who they felt rejected by was being insensitive actually seem really selfish themselves and unable to place themselves in others' shoes and as INFJs are very open to entertain any notions that may lead to some kind of self-awareness the INFJs on this thread were open to entertain this notion and see how it could be possible at first. That is before it turned into some free for all bashing thread justified by -Oh some INFJ hurt my feelings...Why are all you INFJs so deluded as to think you're always right...you're so insensitive...so unable to step in other's shoes (categorically incorrect) yadda yadda. some things mentioned in this thread are just so blatantly untrue. Calling an INFJ insensitive (though we have moments of insensitivity) is like calling an INTP illogical, or an ENFJ as a people hater. It's just not true. And that gets up my crack. Asking INFJs to self reflect on something where they could find room for self-improvement is like shooting fish in a barrel. It plays to our type weakness which sometimes results in not standing up to bullyish behavior. I just don't have much patience for that if I feel the argument proposed is unfounded. I think having specific character traits by type is reasonable, but expecting them to naturally lead to a specific action by default is an unfounded argument.

I am not sure what else I can add to our exchange within this thread. You seem determined to debate or prove that door slamming does not exist any more or differently with infj's than anyone else. I have a lot of posts here and you are more than welcome to go back and read them in this thread.

I am not interested in debating or proving whether or not infj's door slam. I believe they do. You don't and/or don't think so in any way different from other types. I don't agree. We can agree to disagree. If you read my posts, I haven't spoken in absolutes. I have been open minded and willing to listen and learn and change opinion with new information. i'm not close minded. I also acknowledged and agreed with the thoughts that not all infj's door slam and some do it differently, and that other types can do it. But I believe that it is a very relevant topic for infj's. I don't believe you are open minded on this topic. I believe your approach is to believe in an absolute and to outwardly challenge others to prove you wrong. It's difficult to have mutually beneficial exchanges with that approach in my opinion. You, I believe are coming from a defensive mindset that infj's are being attacked and defend infj's everywhere. I understand that. But I'm not here to attack you or infj's. I have many flaws as does my type too.

It isn't a game or contest or one up debate for me. It's real life, real specifics. I believe my posts are fair, open minded, with good intentions. That's more than good enough for me. I, nor no one else is telling you what to believe or not to believe. It is not important to me that everyone agrees with me. Sometimes that just isn't going to happen. But instead of door slamming you, I'm answering every one of your posts directed to me. I don't think we are going to agree, and that's fine too.

I have good intentions too and I'm trying to communicate an alternate viewpoint by examining what's going on (Ti).
I have a specific to the point communication style because I'm a pretty decisive person in general and I like exactness in communication. I also think if people discuss something for 88 pages it's good to define what it actually is they are debating. To really define "doorslamming", as people here use that term super loosely to apply to anything from some acquaintance not sending them a message to severe marital meltdown. Most of the 20 pages I read I found there wasn't much anything I'd define out of the ordinary "don't really want to be pursuing this" without direct confrontation, which is really common to all types and polite people in general. And I have personal experience of actual doorslams perpetrated by other types so I'm just saying sometimes experiential experience can be misleading. Is it good to use isolated incidents to draw out general conclusions when the behaviour seems to be something people generally do?
I wouldn't say I'm closed minded. I started reading this thread out of curiosity after all. I'm generally considered to be extremely open minded and curious as people go and by definition INFJs entertain all types of notions before they use their judging function to decide wether they believe in it or not. Now I can tell you that if you find my tone somehow cold or uncaring then you're probs an NFP. The recent Nardi study of brain EEG actually explains one type to type miscommunication that I know personally from being married to an ENFP that the tone of the delivery is so important to him he'll actually be so offended if he perceives it to be somehow unpleasant that he'll not hear what I'm saying...or he'll hear it as negative even when it's a neutral comment. I'm the opposite. I listen to the words and what they mean as opposed to how it's said. I' not so sensitive to that, though I notice tone changes etc. now if I was being a prat I'd say he's being oversensitive, but the more enlightened view is he's just different. It also doesn't make me cold or uncaring if I speak in my natural way, but it can be perceived that way if you're inclined to do so. I think that's how MBTI is useful. Airing dirty laundry in public I'm less sure is constructive in any way, though it's human to want to vent hurt feelings. But we can agree to disagree on this. I think I've said all I wanted to bring in this conversation by now.

 

[Vasilisa]

more poetry

Absences
by Paul Vinz

“Even when you are not in a room,
you are in it, your voice everywhere.” –Bill Holm

The message that’s recorded on the phone
is unmistakably bad news, and then
another call tells us it’s one we love—
a sudden death while traveling, somehow
appropriate for one who always
seized life too completely to stand still.

A door slams shut, a wall has dropped away,
and once again I’m driven back to
empty pages, insufficient words,
to rooms he always filled on entering—
rooms lined with books, piano music, and
good friends who raise their glasses one last time.

And now, as all the lights are blinking off
in every prairie town we’ve ever loved,
when all the toasts are made and songs are sung,
when leaving is the only certainty,
a single voice keeps echoing, along
each dark, untraveled hallway of the heart.

 

[Ivy]

I just balk at having the phenomenon of "the INFJ doorslam" characterized by the actions of one unhinged individual. It doesn't acknowledge all of the reasonable INFJs who have actually attempted to engage with the people they eventually feel the need to cut away from, not just flounced off without any explanation and stolen shared property.

 

[Totenkindly]

...I believe that it is a very relevant topic for infj's.

That seems to be about all that can be said.

INFJs sometimes because of a combination of introversion, Fe, and need for closure might be tempted to just do a doorslam. Maybe some other types have similar leanings. (as compared to other types that seem more likely to keep engaging the more there is a disagreement). So it's worth tossing out there as something to talk about, but isn't really indicative of particular types, etc.

I'm still kind of flabbergasted there are almost 900 posts in this thread, on this topic.

I just balk at having the phenomenon of "the INFJ doorslam" characterized by the actions of one unhinged individual. It doesn't acknowledge all of the reasonable INFJs who have actually attempted to engage with the people they eventually feel the need to cut away from, not just flounced off without any explanation and stolen shared property.

yes, arguing from specific to many (especially when "specific" is a small sampling) is typically a reasoning error. Typically it's people (not INFJs) with emotional issues / lack of social skills who just automatically doorslam someone... either that or something who already is on edge/vulnerable. I know a ton of INFJs who continue to engage on a reasonable level.

 

[Starry]

Clearly...anyone posting in this thread now is a total douchebag...(which is why I'm doing it).

[MENTION=14749]BalanceFind[/MENTION] have you considered starting a blog?

 

[BalanceFind]

Many thought leaders have written specifically about infj's and enneagram 4 door slams and dropping people. That is a given to me. I'd be willing to share examples here if needed or wanted by some.

Every person is an individual and every situation is different. I have acknowledged that many times here.

The thread is about when an infj door slams, not that all do it or all are the same. But it does exist, and in a different way than some others. If someone wants to start a thread about a perceived negative characteristic of my type, go for it. I would help and add anything I could from an objective viewpoint. Some things in life aren't sunny and cheery, but still worth discussion to benefit a variety of people. I wish I wasn't in my situation, but I most definitely am going to work to help myself in my situation now and for the future, and others.

Some people here, infj and non-infj, have the ability to objectively discuss the topic beginning with acceptance that it does exist. Some others want to debate whether or not exists or is unique in any way. I am not surprised at the variety. Much of my interaction is going to be more productive for me with those who have a belief that it does exist and is unique because after self study, life experience, and interaction with others, I believe it does. It isn't an attack on infj's everywhere. It's one specific thread of one specific topic and things related to it.

I am appreciative for the replies since I came here, and the interaction on the topic. It is very helpful to me with regard to infj's and enneagram 4's. I hope the thread continues infinitely as long as it is productive for people relates to the topic. Thanks.

 

[Ivy]

It's not about whether it exists or not. It's about whether it's a negative thing by nature. You seem to be saying "doorslamming is always negative. as evidence, my ex blah blah blah." Your ex's doorslam was negative, I think we can all agree on that (though we only have one side of the story, but even so, the stuff about holding onto shared property and owing you lots of money is pretty objectively bad). It doesn't necessarily follow that every INFJ doorslam is selfish, bad, and irrational. Your personal experience is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion.

 

[Society]

What do you base this notion of not being willing to listen?

if you are open and willing to listen to the people you've doorslammed, how is it a doorslam?

So you're in effect saying that the INFJ is being a butt and then poor innocent other person says "You are being a butt" and this causes the INFJ to get angry because no one can tell tem they're being a butt and to drop off the face of the earth as revenge

no, i'm not saying that the other person hasn't made mistakes either - i know i have and i talked about a few of them here - and neither did i say that it was a form of revenge - the repeating pattern is demonizing the other person and then not wanting them in your life, there's never any mention of wanting to punish them ... but i'm saying that the crux point i described seems to be the case for the stories about INFJ doorslammers depicted by the doorslammed, and while not being present in any of the stories by INFJs, there's nothing that contradicts it - nothing said about their own behavior or the other person's perspective at all - and at least a few of the INFJs here have clearly demonstrated this very behavior.
ofcourse we don't know the stories of the people they doorslammed, of which there's nothing said, and we don't know the full stories of the people who doorslammed us, because there's a limit of what can be understood through the silence.. but the patterns on both sides seem to fit.

there's also clear exceptions to this - intricate mystic has went in length proving her capacity for introspection and judging her own mistakes like a mature adult and even hinted at wishing to understand her past partner's perspectives, aprhodite has done the same, fidelia has shown hints of it... this is by no means a generalization that can be applied to all INFJs.

 

[BalanceFind]

I posted many, many times objectively about the topic unrelated to my situation. (And many times related to my situation)

If you think I have only posted based on one example, then you haven't read my posts.

It's important to agree on what a door slam is and types of door slams first. That seems unclear or not agreed upon for many.

I don't think leaving people, situations, relationships, is door slamming in and of itself.

I have been able to learn a lot about door slams, causes, and what leads up to one and what happens during one. I hope to learn more about after a door slam. ...about when and how infj's in particular re-visit decisions, change, forgive themselves and others, return to values and principles if applicable. For example when a person reappears after a long absence which happens. Or when one does not and why, all types of things.

 

[BalanceFind]

It's not about whether it exists or not. It's about whether it's a negative thing by nature. You seem to be saying "doorslamming is always negative. as evidence, my ex blah blah blah." Your ex's doorslam was negative, I think we can all agree on that (though we only have one side of the story, but even so, the stuff about holding onto shared property and owing you lots of money is pretty objectively bad). It doesn't necessarily follow that every INFJ doorslam is selfish, bad, and irrational. Your personal experience is insufficient evidence to draw that conclusion.

I am open minded. I don't think door slamming is good, productive, or healthy when it happens the way it did in my situation, an extreme type. For me door slamming is vanishing into thin air unexpectedly to the other person with zero closure, zero clearing up loose ends, Zero communication of any kind, sometimes temporary, sometimes permanent.

Door slamming is less to me in situations where the door slammer is clear up front and why with warning and why and both sides are very clear about the basic facts.

My door slammer in a hypothetical example may not think I treated her well. I may disagree and think so. What matters to me is that can we agree on the basic facts of the situation. If we both can agree on rhe basic facts I can live with that. What's more challenging is if a door slammer assumes too much without discussion and then door slams based on incorrect and non-agreed upon facts. Facts matter.

We can disagree on things and go our separate ways as long as we are very clear on facts and can agree about the facts. How one feels about facts is different from the facts themselves.

Door slamming to me is a lot about being unclear, leaving lots of unanswered questions and issues on the table. There is certainly much more tolerance in situations where a door slammer is very clear and upfront, not hints, not signs, not guesses.

At the very least we can agree that some door slamming is bad, negative unhealthy and unproductive. In other situations, it would be a discussion for me to even decide if something is a door slam or not. Door slam the words to me are severe, extreme. Slamming a door literally is often not a good thing. It is an extreme action, to physically slam something shut. That is how I approach it.

To me door slamming is all about one person wanting to stay in communication and the other one not wanting to do so. I think this statement is important. There is nothing mutually agreable or mutually beneficial about a door slam. I approach life in a mutually beneficial way unless there is an extremely abusive reason from the other person not to do so. Disagreement and hurt feelings are not enough for me to not approach life that way. If you are upset and have hurt feelings and want to leave, fine. But taking one day to meet in person is not too much to ask before leaving. Getting facts straight to make sure it is a good decision, clearing up loose ends. It's basic human decency. Only in Abusive scenarios would I understand not doing so, ans even then I believe it is important to have a clear message sent and why. Relationships are always about two people, not one.

 

[Totenkindly]

Clearly...anyone posting in this thread now is a total douchebag...(which is why I'm doing it).

Yay! I just made the douchebag cutoff, after not having posted in this thread until today! Yay! Yay!

 

[Starry]

Yay! I just made the douchebag cutoff, after not having posted in this thread until today! Yay! Yay!

OMG...I actually just choked on my coffee a little bit...Haha! Oh this gave me a good laugh. Jennifer haha.

 

[Reverie]

if you are open and willing to listen to the people you've doorslammed, how is it a doorslam?

Well it's because I haven't "doorslammed" anyone in my life. Which I think says something. Don't give me wrong. I really feel for you and what you're going through. It's just the whole doorslamming business being some INFJ thing I'm still not buying.

 

[Society]

Well it's because I haven't "doorslammed" anyone in my life. Which I think says something. Don't give me wrong. I really feel for you and what you're going through. It's just the whole doorslamming business being some INFJ thing I'm still not buying.

first of all, hell yes, it says something - it says your naturally very mature (or very young and haven't lost your doorslammer-virginity yet )

now, obviously there's non-INFJ doorslams and there's INFJs who have never doorslammed. but if every type was equally likely to doorslam we would have a more or less equal of people complaining about doorslammers form different types per population percentage, and INFJs being the rarest would actually have the opportunity to doorslam the least amount of people compared to other types hypothetically doorslamming just as frequent, and would presumably have the smallest percentage of people complaining about INFJ doorslams compared to other types.

if that was the case, the chances that so many people complaining about the same type doorsalmming would show up in the same MBTI forums (this isn't just here), and the hypothetical doorslam-victims of other types - which should be a lot more people if doorslam chances by all types where equal - would just happen to be remarkably rare and silent about it, even when there's a distinct and somewhat failing effort by an INFJ to out them (slikroad's non-INFJ doorslam thread), is one hell of a remarkable coincidence.

so either there's an increased likelihood of being doorslammed by INFJs, or you guys won a really really bad lottery..,

 

[SilkRoad]

when there's a distinct and somewhat failing effort by an INFJ to out them (slikroad's non-INFJ doorslam thread)

 

[Reverie]

first of all, hell yes, it says something - it says your naturally very mature (or very young and haven't lost your doorslammer-virginity yet )

now, obviously there's non-INFJ doorslams and there's INFJs who have never doorslammed. but if every type was equally likely to doorslam we would have a more or less equal of people complaining about doorslammers form different types per population percentage, and INFJs being the rarest would actually have the opportunity to doorslam the least amount of people compared to other types hypothetically doorslamming just as frequent, and would presumably have the smallest percentage of people complaining about INFJ doorslams compared to other types.

if that was the case, the chances that so many people complaining about the same type doorsalmming would show up in the same MBTI forums (this isn't just here), and the hypothetical doorslam-victims of other types - which should be a lot more people if doorslam chances by all types where equal - would just happen to be remarkably rare and silent about it, even when there's a distinct and somewhat failing effort by an INFJ to out them (slikroad's non-INFJ doorslam thread), is one hell of a remarkable coincidence.

so either there's an increased likelihood of being doorslammed by INFJs, or you guys won a really really bad lottery..,

Well I'm not very young. Been around the block enough times. I think the reason there is a thread like this is because INFJs are way too polite to say it to ya straight that it's bullshit and get caught in the nyances of why it's BS. I'll say it it's BS. And also because INFJs like to bang their heads against walls. If you really really look at what this thread'll tell you is that a there's a very very tiny number of people who have a grievance and max like 3-4, who think INFJs are doorslammers, and who post 100 times trying to argue the point unconvincingly. I call it as I see it. I went through 60 pages of this logical disaster reviewing the posts and come on, Seriously?
I want to leave it at that because I don't see the previous 200 posts of INFJs saying they've not doorslammed anyone made any difference. I'm not really into masochism.
Like I said I'm sorry for your marriage but don't be making generalizations.

EDIT: And furthermore Silkroad's thread would be much more successful if we'd go make outrageous claims about other types and post on it 200 times each based on bad one experience. It's just...argh!!!!

 

[BalanceFind]

Well I'm not very young. Been around the block enough times. I think the reason there is a thread like this is because INFJs are way too polite to say it to ya straight that it's bullshit and get caught in the nyances of why it's BS. I'll say it it's BS. And also because INFJs like to bang their heads against walls. If you really really look at what this thread'll tell you is that a there's a very very tiny number of people who have a grievance and max like 3-4, who think INFJs are doorslammers, and who post 100 times trying to argue the point unconvincingly. I call it as I see it. I went through 60 pages of this logical disaster reviewing the posts and come on, Seriously?
I want to leave it at that because I don't see the previous 200 posts of INFJs saying they've not doorslammed anyone made any difference. I'm not really into masochism.
Like I said I'm sorry for your marriage but don't be making generalizations.

EDIT: And furthermore Silkroad's thread would be much more successful if we'd go make outrageous claims about other types and post on it 200 times each based on bad one experience. It's just...argh!!!!

There's a BIG difference between an enneagram 4w3 and a counterphobic 6w5.

Every infj I have ever experienced is an ennegram 4, with either wing.

 

[SilkRoad]

There's a BIG difference between an enneagram 4w3 and a counterphobic 6w5.

Every infj I have ever experienced is an ennegram 4, with either wing.

I'm not sure what the relevance of that is, but if you're referring to me, I'm a primarily phobic 6. 6 is one of the most common enneagram types and there are definitely 6w5 INFJs about ([MENTION=9363]Quay[/MENTION] is one I can think of on this forum, though unfortunately she is not around a lot at the moment.)

In fact, I'm pretty sure a lot of people (including INFJs) mistype themselves and are actually 6. It's not a "popular" type. But it is generally cited as the most common type. I am definitely not a 4 and I am - about as definitely as I can tell - an INFJ.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Well I'm not very young. Been around the block enough times. I think the reason there is a thread like this is because INFJs are way too polite to say it to ya straight that it's bullshit and get caught in the nyances of why it's BS. I'll say it it's BS. And also because INFJs like to bang their heads against walls. If you really really look at what this thread'll tell you is that a there's a very very tiny number of people who have a grievance and max like 3-4, who think INFJs are doorslammers, and who post 100 times trying to argue the point unconvincingly. I call it as I see it. I went through 60 pages of this logical disaster reviewing the posts and come on, Seriously?
I want to leave it at that because I don't see the previous 200 posts of INFJs saying they've not doorslammed anyone made any difference. I'm not really into masochism.
Like I said I'm sorry for your marriage but don't be making generalizations.

EDIT: And furthermore Silkroad's thread would be much more successful if we'd go make outrageous claims about other types and post on it 200 times each based on bad one experience. It's just...argh!!!!

You know, I'm going to go ahead and admit that I've noticed a particular brand of INFJ squirreliness that I don't have time to expand on just now, but I have dealt with it in other INFJs, it is 'a thing'. But these descriptions that are being left- it's like reading a description for 'ingrown toenail' that sounds more like leprosy.

What I find bizarre though is that I don't think I've seen people show up with such elaborate function descriptions of 'what goes wrong' for any other type- at least, if it happens, it doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it does for INFJs. AND, on top of that, the people who do it seem to need INFJs (who AREN'T the INFJ(s) who cheezed them off) to 'admit' to doing what their elaborate function-gone-wrong description explains. It's stunning. And completely bizarre.