What, exactly, instinctual variant measures/identifies

[Lady_X]

Sure lady ill come back to it. I have no business trying to make sense atm. I'm super tired brained.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

Sure lady ill come back to it. I have no business trying to make sense atm. I'm super tired brained.

[pouting]

 

[Lady_X]

haha

i really will. i was very tired and you were asking me to strain my brain!

 

[Southern Kross]

Southern Kross what you said about sx was very interesting. i went out of the house walking and thinking about what you said. i think you're right, but also not completely. to define an sx-dom as a person that wants to limit social interactions to focus on the 1-1 interaction is true but not complete. it's a definition by negation. as i walked i was thinking about other aspects of me being sx-dom that aren't dependent on that need to protect the dual interaction. for instance, things that are often mentioned in the context of the sx instinct: appreciation of food, drinking, or sports that make your adrenalin pump etc...these aren't connected with exclusion of other people but with wanting to feel pleasure. And now i enter murky grounds, because i don't know where being enneagram 7 and being sx-dom ends and begins. but i do everything in my life out of pleasure. i'm instinctual and i tend to be able to do only what i want. in my work, in relationships, alone. i'm free and i do want i want. and my life is ruled by my passions and the pleasure i get out of them.

Wait, I thought appreciating good food and drink was more of a Sp thing?

I'm not sure how it would cover that. Perhaps you could say that Sx also has difficulty in finding pleasure in general, so when they come across a source of it, they latch onto it much more than others.

I don't know, I'll need to think about it.

secondly, you were very good at defining sx on the exclusion of so, so i'd like to ask you if you could be offer your opinion on the definition of So and of Sp. i'm still not sure if I understand exactly what Sp is (beyond the general definitions available on the internet). i'm still not sure if my 2nd function is Sp or So. And I'm still wondering about the instinctual stackings of my gf. So I would appreciate
Lady X, since lately you are so interested in this argument, i would also love to hear your opinions on what the instincts measure/identify and also how different combinations (Sp/Sx, Sx/So, etc) work together. please?

I'm not sure I entirely understand Sp either but I'll give it a go.

Social instinct
Driven by a sense of instability in relationships with others. So-doms feel the need to constantly establish, re-affirm, and protect a connection to and a position within the group. Any air of discontent, tension, or clash of stance/attitude/position undermines a sense of security between them and the group. So-doms are perpetually seeking a sense of place in the world and to define where and how they fit in, because to them the social climate appears so shifting and uncertain. This type is perhaps the most aware of the complexities of human interaction (because the complexities terrify them!).

Self-pres instinct
Driven by a sense of the fragility of their own existence. Sp-doms are highly threatened by elements they believe that may destabilise their ability to flourish, and by forces that may erode their 'separateness' by slowly consuming them. Their sense of body and identity feels so indefinite and they feel a need to draw strong boundaries in which to protect them. They feel the need to actively fight to retain the cornerstones that are so precious to them: eg. comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, reliability, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, individuality. Sp-doms seek to establish an environment of personal security and selfhood, which will enable them to thrive.

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Sp-doms feel free to tell me if I'm off base here.

 

[mintleaf]

Self-pres instinct
Driven by a sense of the fragility of their own existence. Sp-doms are highly threatened by elements they believe that may destabilise their ability to flourish, and by forces that may erode their 'separateness' by slowly consuming them. Their sense of body and identity feels so indefinite and they feel a need to draw strong boundaries in which to protect them. They feel the need to actively fight to retain the cornerstones that are so precious to them: eg. comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, reliability, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, individuality. Sp-doms seek to establish an environment of personal security and selfhood, which will enable them to thrive.

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Sp-doms feel free to tell me if I'm off base here.

No, this is perfect!

 

[mintleaf]

i don't know about the conscious or not conscious. i do, however, think you start from the first one, so it's possible in a way that the second one might help you become more conscious of the first one as you explore the differences. but the first one is your deepest identity. that you can become blind to this is fair enough, because we often rely on schemes of interpretation that don't fit us very well. nevertheless, i think you can see a kind of energy that comes from your entire trajectory, and often even shows up in your body type and muscle definition, diet, exercise styles, relationships, coping habits, addictions, etc.

i think we often mistake "content" for the underlying contexts of the instincts. i think sx is identifying with first person perspective. so is identifying with second person perspective, with other people's points of view and their experiences. third person is detached from people perspectives in the first place. first person creates object relations with the world, identifying with the objects that satisfy one's own drives as good or bad. everything is an object that satisfies or leaves wanting. second person creates an emphasis on reciprocity, norms, expectations, and agreements. you interpret your sense of self through other's eyes primarily, rather than from a select few others like an increasingly sx type, far less social type would (why, for instance, sx/sp relationships are so intense). third person experiences the infrastructures of life with less characterization, with less desire and belonging. it is more alienated, but prompts one to connect with something deeper, a deeper source of commonality than social factors/alignments.

i also tend to think of sx, so, and sp as the sprinters, the striders, and the long-distance runners. think 100, 400, and the mile. just different make-ups, different energy types. granted there are a lot of developmental factors that affect the way these things are expressed, but at the same time, they seem like relatively stable patterns to me.

in another scheme, i see sx as will, so as superego, and sp as ego. i think it all follows suit. sx is obsessed with growth, so with stability, and sp with loss. i mean, freud called these "the it," "the over-i," and "the i." you can play with lacan's view to explore further possibilities (i like the "three drives." specifically active voice: to see, passive voice: to be seen, and reflexive voice: to see oneself).

i just know that while i gravitate to sp habits to manage myself, sx wins. it's just there, calling the shots. if unchecked, if i'm not checking in to monitor it and practice being aware of what it is up to, it overrides balance, even as i've learned so much about my fundamental desires and tensions as a result of so much sx-perspective experience. i require so to further interpret and provide the balance that sp cannot hold down by itself, in my experience, just warmth and touch and the tug of attachment, the moments of affection, the 5 As of relationship, etc. and for me sx can be a lot of things. it's just the raw addictiveness of things that are the best. and a desire to not only continue but to get more of those. to accelerate all processes of getting closer to what i want. each drive, each faction, wants more. in even the broadest sense. as a 5, for instance, i'm a learning junkie, just another 5w4 building his cosmology. so i want to learn the concepts of modern mathematics. if i had a willing teacher, i'd sit for weeks until i knew it all. 8 hours, 10 hours, i could just keep going. just downloading more and more. engaging this mind unceasingly. asking more questions. i could not stop. it's too valuable to me. that part of me would win out again and again and again. it just has so much power because i know that it is too true for me to deny. even if truly learning sp practices, yoga, meditation, going inward, breathwork, etc, have been life-changing, and improved the context through which sx expresses itself, i see how much i needed to master sp for sx to not completely run amok, which was certainly not always bad either. it gave me a competitiveness that i enjoyed in sports, inspired many incredibly real moments with others, and allowed me to develop a passion for so many things and people and places and experiences that truly changed me, that truly revealed to me more and more what i had been searching for all this time. what would truly fulfill me. i feel unwavering in my belief that i know how to find fulfillment, that i feel where i must go to be true to myself and to my potential.

i also do think there are some trends. so types are marketing/demographics geeks, real pr machines. so/sp is kind of an actuarial perspective. sx has the ram horns. so/sx is the charmer. sx/so is the most mobilizing force, the seducer and conqueror. sx/sp has the most intense, penetrating gaze. sp/sx is mysterious and earthy.

sx i think tends to be about allowing damage to be inflicted because it's waiting for the outcome of a few competing forces to totally commit and see what wins. there's a kind of internal violence, so much intense conflict, constant escalation, pressure, slaughter, devastation. you wait to see if your desires will break your social and self-preservational bonds, the habits that allow you to exist in a relatively stable way, that allow you to let go of pieces of yourself, balance your ledgers, enjoy and appreciate and most of all accept your life and self and the world around you, that give you the contentment to just be and relax into the relationships that support you and yours, those who bleed into you and vice versa.

so/sx is different. it wants to win, but it loses itself because it only sees the it and the over-i. there's no i. there's no grounding objectivity. it sees the realities of others and it wants to shape and transform them. it doesn't really know how to release and let go of other's expectations and rules and assumptions, so it doesn't know how to see itself outside of the ways other represent and experience it. it cannot identify with an impersonalness that allows it to see its own ancientness, to see oneself as the center of an infinity, an eternity.

resurrecting this thread because I love these descriptions of the variants

 

[mintleaf]

Social instinct
Driven by a sense of instability in relationships with others. So-doms feel the need to constantly establish, re-affirm, and protect a connection to and a position within the group. Any air of discontent, tension, or clash of stance/attitude/position undermines a sense of security between them and the group. So-doms are perpetually seeking a sense of place in the world and to define where and how they fit in, because to them the social climate appears so shifting and uncertain. This type is perhaps the most aware of the complexities of human interaction (because the complexities terrify them!).

Self-pres instinct
Driven by a sense of the fragility of their own existence. Sp-doms are highly threatened by elements they believe that may destabilise their ability to flourish, and by forces that may erode their 'separateness' by slowly consuming them. Their sense of body and identity feels so indefinite and they feel a need to draw strong boundaries in which to protect them. They feel the need to actively fight to retain the cornerstones that are so precious to them: eg. comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, reliability, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, individuality. Sp-doms seek to establish an environment of personal security and selfhood, which will enable them to thrive.

------------------------------------------------

Sp-doms feel free to tell me if I'm off base here.

these are also great descriptions, I think.