#walkaway

[Lark]

Conservative is the new counter culture.

I dont think they are conservatives and I dont think they are a legitimate counter culture.

Its an attempt to use Abbie Hoffman's thinking about demography being more significant than other sorts of struggle and shape youth culture in their image, its also not conservatism, its just a sort of shocking, prejudiced as fuck agenda for the haters, some conservatives are pinning their hopes on it because their ideology is tired, spent, out of ideas and excuses.

That and kids are easier to dupe, which is a huge part of this too, its the post-internet age of hacking, trojans, dupes and some people are applying all of that online toxicity to offline reality. Again, conservative inclined people, are "going along, to get along" with most of this. Better that than a rerun of all the confusing misconduct of the sixties right? Well...

That any of these tendencies could possibly claim to be a counter culture is just an indication of the absence of any sort of real counter culture existing at all. Its a shame but I also think should provoke some thinking on the left about the extent to which what had become the central pillars of their own perspective where not challenges to anything particularly but easily co-opted by the status quo. Between that and most of the pet causes of the pseudo-left being things that the right wing are realistically pleased about as they have all proven to be very sure recruiters for their camp among the general mass of disinterested, non-niche citizens.

 

[anticlimatic]

I dont think they are conservatives and I dont think they are a legitimate counter culture. Its an attempt to use Abbie Hoffman's thinking about demography being more significant than other sorts of struggle and shape youth culture in their image, its also not conservatism, its just a sort of shocking, prejudiced as fuck agenda for the haters, some conservatives are pinning their hopes on it because their ideology is tired, spent, out of ideas and excuses. That and kids are easier to dupe, which is a huge part of this too, its the post-internet age of hacking, trojans, dupes and some people are applying all of that online toxicity to offline reality. Again, conservative inclined people, are "going along, to get along" with most of this. Better that than a rerun of all the confusing misconduct of the sixties right? Well... That any of these tendencies could possibly claim to be a counter culture is just an indication of the absence of any sort of real counter culture existing at all. Its a shame but I also think should provoke some thinking on the left about the extent to which what had become the central pillars of their own perspective where not challenges to anything particularly but easily co-opted by the status quo. Between that and most of the pet causes of the pseudo-left being things that the right wing are realistically pleased about as they have all proven to be very sure recruiters for their camp among the general mass of disinterested, non-niche citizens.

I dont think they are conservatives and I dont think they are a legitimate counter culture. Its an attempt to use Abbie Hoffman's thinking about demography being more significant than other sorts of struggle and shape youth culture in their image, its also not conservatism, its just a sort of shocking, prejudiced as fuck agenda for the haters, some conservatives are pinning their hopes on it because their ideology is tired, spent, out of ideas and excuses. That and kids are easier to dupe, which is a huge part of this too, its the post-internet age of hacking, trojans, dupes and some people are applying all of that online toxicity to offline reality. Again, conservative inclined people, are "going along, to get along" with most of this. Better that than a rerun of all the confusing misconduct of the sixties right? Well... That any of these tendencies could possibly claim to be a counter culture is just an indication of the absence of any sort of real counter culture existing at all. Its a shame but I also think should provoke some thinking on the left about the extent to which what had become the central pillars of their own perspective where not challenges to anything particularly but easily co-opted by the status quo. Between that and most of the pet causes of the pseudo-left being things that the right wing are realistically pleased about as they have all proven to be very sure recruiters for their camp among the general mass of disinterested, non-niche citizens.

So you don't think the left "won" the culture war?

 

[Lark]

So you don't think the left "won" the culture war?

That's a war without winner, the only way to win is not to play.

 

[anticlimatic]

That's a war without winner, the only way to win is not to play.

I feel like "winning" it usually comes with a jump the shark kind of moment when authoritarian force is busted out as leverage, which everyone hates, and helps an ailing counter culture get some ideological momentum.

 

[Lark]

I feel like "winning" it usually comes with a jump the shark kind of moment when authoritarian force is busted out as leverage, which everyone hates, and helps an ailing counter culture get some ideological momentum.

Culture wars are a complete and utter waste of time, they are diversion and redirection from discussing distribution, accumulation and structural injustices.

The fact that it has disappeared from public discourse is a sign that the legacies have pulled a master stroke, between that and the whole "pity the millionaire" narrative, which seems to have worked, even with the penniless.

These people who describe themselves as the alternative to a leftist bogeyman are not conservatives, not even fiscal conservatives, they are fascists and nazis of different stripes.

 

[ceecee]

Culture wars are a complete and utter waste of time, they are diversion and redirection from discussing distribution, accumulation and structural injustices.

The fact that it has disappeared from public discourse is a sign that the legacies have pulled a master stroke, between that and the whole "pity the millionaire" narrative, which seems to have worked, even with the penniless.

These people who describe themselves as the alternative to a leftist bogeyman are not conservatives, not even fiscal conservatives, they are fascists and nazis of different stripes.

You do know that he is basically saying - We conservatives/right/Republicans didn't wanna win the culture war ANYWAY! And then proceed to do whatever they can to discredit the people winning the thing they want. Or they cheat and steal - which is another conversation.

This is also why the right in the US is constantly banging the - LEFT IS AUTHORITARIAN!! CANNED SOUP IS ANTIFA! drum loudly to attempt to distract you from looking at the bag of skin filled with creamed corn that's actually signing executive orders to enact authoritarianism. But don't take my word for it - all you have to do is watch what the right does. Not what they say.

 

[Vendrah]

I don't think there actually is "Blacks for Trump". If it was something rooted in reality (not the reality of the few You Tubers and actors being paid to say this), why would they need to create fake accounts and astroturf the fuck out of something that could be a legit movement for black Americans?

Viral pro-Trump tweets came from fake African American spam accounts, Twitter says



Because none of this is real. Blacks for Trump, Women for Trump, Latinos for Trump, Gays for Trump, none of this is anything but a $$$ venture for the people posing as a member of one of these groups.

And this one...

All they are trying to accomplish is to make people think #walkaway or Blacks for Trump or Blexit means there actually are people walking away or black people are actually voting for Trump. But they aren't.

I don't really understand the way people use SJW on this forum. If someone hates being told - what you're doing is hurtful or offensive to a group of people - why is getting explosively angry THE way to react to it? Instead of, yanno, listening to why something is hurtful or offensive, while the vein in their forehead goes down.

I was just passing quick to this thread, quick reading, and Im actually pages and days late, but...

This sometimes can even be funny, but it is the beginning of something horribly dangerous.

Fake profiles on Brazil are normal. Fake messages are daily. Fake bots are common. There are services that has cell numbers of many voters and bomb messages from either political propaganda or a political hate targeting somebody. Most of these messages are from conservatives. In the end, this is the path to lie, deceiving and corruption.

 

[Lark]

You do know that he is basically saying - We conservatives/right/Republicans didn't wanna win the culture war ANYWAY! And then proceed to do whatever they can to discredit the people winning the thing they want. Or they cheat and steal - which is another conversation.

This is also why the right in the US is constantly banging the - LEFT IS AUTHORITARIAN!! CANNED SOUP IS ANTIFA! drum loudly to attempt to distract you from looking at the bag of skin filled with creamed corn that's actually signing executive orders to enact authoritarianism. But don't take my word for it - all you have to do is watch what the right does. Not what they say.

The right wing is only concerned with authoritarianism if it isnt the private variety.

I think they abbreviate anti-fascism to antifa because they dont like being seen to argue with/or find it harder to argue with anti-fascism given that they've complained about liberal fascism, islamic fascism, labelled virtually everything as fascism, up until now.

 

[Lark]

I was just passing quick to this thread, quick reading, and Im actually pages and days late, but...

This sometimes can even be funny, but it is the beginning of something horribly dangerous.

Fake profiles on Brazil are normal. Fake messages are daily. Fake bots are common. There are services that has cell numbers of many voters and bomb messages from either political propaganda or a political hate targeting somebody. Most of these messages are from conservatives. In the end, this is the path to lie, deceiving and corruption.

Yup, its the whole online/hacker culture of trolling, duping, trojans, manipulation etc.

 

[anticlimatic]

Culture wars are a complete and utter waste of time, they are diversion and redirection from discussing distribution, accumulation and structural injustices.

The fact that it has disappeared from public discourse is a sign that the legacies have pulled a master stroke, between that and the whole "pity the millionaire" narrative, which seems to have worked, even with the penniless.

These people who describe themselves as the alternative to a leftist bogeyman are not conservatives, not even fiscal conservatives, they are fascists and nazis of different stripes.

Well, based on what I've seen, most of them are just outdated liberals who aren't down with the insane orwellian shit the left is now about- at last in America. The left is openly hostile to anyone who isn't far left, including most of the left and middle itself, while the right is seemingly much more open to diverse ideological bedfellows right now- probably because the right is suddenly better at communicating with people who are different from them, which is not something I ever thought would happen. The leftist gestapo recruitment strategy might work for a while- the sort of "we will cancel/ruin your life if you don't spout our dogma and tow our line" fear/bullying approach, but I don't see it viable long term. Not with free and private elections. TDS might be enough to keep Trump to one term, but once Trump is gone that's it. Unless the left rejoins reality or rigs the system to perpetuate their power while they have control, nobody in their right mind is going to sign up for their miserable quasi-religion. Nobody with any degree of a life, at least, and an interest in enjoying it.

To the bolded- I think you're mistaken in a very common INTJ way (apologies if that's not your type, I have no idea). What I mean is that I think you attribute conspiracy and "master planning" to what is actually a very automatic and basic process/system. Culture is the bed from which policy is grown, and people have always cared more about superficial "cultural" crap than they have about the logistics of policy and specific governmental structures. Nobody "made that happen," it's just a dumb aspect of meat sacking that even (and especially) those people who fancy themselves above our outside of it are victim.

Politics is a game of projection in more ways than one. You project your own values on others, and judge their behavior on those values- which unavoidably damns those people as "evil." People are incapable of thinking like anyone other than themselves. Any effort is just a perverted expression of a smaller collection of one's cognitive systems, smaller to the point that it can resemble someone else- at least to us. Like a dream within a dream. This is how the left ends up far more demonstrateably racist than the right, while simultaneously being obsessed with how racist they imagine the right to be.

 

[anticlimatic]

This girl nails it on when things began really going south. I also really appreciate her life experience and how it informed and evolved her political perspective over time.

 

[anticlimatic]

Because none of this is real. Blacks for Trump, Women for Trump, Latinos for Trump, Gays for Trump, none of this is anything but a $$$ venture for the people posing as a member of one of these groups.

How much do you think this girl got paid to fake this entire unique and independently thought out monologue?

 

[Dreamer]

What I appreciate about this campaign is, to me, it represents thinking for yourself, doing a bit of research, looking for information straight from the horses mouth. In this day and age of mass information available at your fingertips, there is absolutely no reason one should rely on heresay or the mainstream cable networks as their only source of information. If they say Trump said this, or Biden said that, there is an actual video clip you yourself can watch, posted somewhere, to make the determination yourself, without the filter of media bias.

This country was founded on the freedom of thought. It does not bother me which way you cast your vote, you are absolutely free to do so, but it’s tiring to see people still giving the media Carte Blanche and presuming it’s all fact without question. Lazy voting is the fodder of dreams for propaganda.

 

[Merced]

Isn't there a whole subgenre on Youtube about people escaping the alt right pipeline?

 

[Dreamer]

Isn't there a whole subgenre on Youtube about people escaping the alt right pipeline?

With all of the outlandish things YouTube has suggested for me to watch over the years, it wouldn’t surprise me to see some sort of “walkaway” of any kind to exist. Well, ok, I’ll partially retract that, YouTube isn’t a free for all as there is censorship...

 

[Vendrah]

With all of the outlandish things YouTube has suggested for me to watch over the years, it wouldn’t surprise me to see some sort of “walkaway” of any kind to exist. Well, ok, I’ll partially retract that, YouTube isn’t a free for all as there is censorship...

Not only censorship but also algorithm manipulation. I really miss the You Tube from 2009-2011. The you tube today has mysterious algorithms but they do have a tendency to centralize the clicks to very few people and videos, the algorithms even pops up and influences your own search (you tube search is no longer impersonal, now different accounts have different results). In other words, today the platform is a lot centralized (like 95% of views and likes goes to 1-2% of the videos), and the algorithms indirectly controls what you watch because they do control what they indicate based on popularity + "personal recommendations". You Tube from 2010 was very impersonal, you got the search really related to your keyword and not having just annoying popular you tubers showing up on the search for being slightly on your topic (while the unpopular but specific on search videos disappearing), and also the recommendations after you clicked the video were really related to the video specific topic and not picked by algorithm "for you" or just the most popular video on the general topic or even the most popular video for the public they think is watching the video.

In terms of political aspects, at least here in Brazil, You Tube is partially far right biased. If you watch videos from the "leftists or far left channel", right-wing videos does show up once or twice sometimes; If you clear cache and watch videos from the "right wing" and "far right", any indications from a video from the left-wing basically never shows up. Basically, something similar could happen to the US (I wouldn't be surprised if in the end finding left to right videos are easier than right to left videos, not because the right is so good, but because of riggs), but since these algorithms are all private despite You Tube being sort of a website that was originally made to be a public website of videos, we never truly know. But one thing there is for sure: Some sort of manipulation, even if just "benign".

PS: Also, the right here is better at gathering minions. Minions in this context means people that goes quickly to target videos from other sides, fills with spams and dislikes button, or centralizing the support to some very specific videos. Since the youtube today is centralized, minions can boost and centralize views and likes for very specific far right wing channels and videos, making them stronger than a left side with more de-centralized videos and making the left appear to be very unpopular while it is actually a matter of centralization. However, this is more a probability; THe reality we truly ever know.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Left wing videos don’t show up as often because they tend to be more dry, substantial; based more in abstract theory than in bite sized, feel good slogans. There’s a good reason YouTube algorithms think infowars type shit is more appealing than a 2 hour Chomsky lecture

Dumb shit videos for dumb shit people. Give the people what they want, I suppose. (I say this from my high horse, yet I’ll probably be watching cats or memes the next time I am on YouTube)

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

How much do you think this girl got paid to fake this entire unique and independently thought out monologue?

I mean, assuming that I gave her the benefit of the doubt and believed she was sincere, there would still be no way in hell I’d be able to share this on my social media feed and be taken seriously by 80% of my friends and family.

So either way, it’s kind of a pointless discussion. If you can’t beat them, join them, ya know?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

So I uh, decided to walk away, and I’m thinking, I dunno, Green Party or the American Socialist Party gets my vote instead of the dems?

That’s what y’all meant by walk away, right?


No? Oh. I’m so confused.

 

[Jaguar]

No party affiliation. Period. You don't have to have one to register. Just fucking vote.