#walkaway

[anticlimatic]

So capitalism is the best, most perfect system we can ever have, but it has problems that need to be fixed? It seems like you have contradictory positions on capitalism.

By the way, the bolded is obviously false. I wouldn't say that's even true for the majority (most people on the right, if they way they talk, is accurate, seem to believe that any kind of government intervention is socialism. Hence, opposition to mask mandates. ) If it was, what are they doing voting for Trump? Biden's record isn't much better, but Trump is obviously one of those people, he just doesn't have the civility that's necessary to make him palatable to the establishment. I think he's loathed in part by the establishment because he tends to "give up the game."

Anticlimactic, you're sounding like a real socialist. Why do you hate our American traditions of liberty and freedom so? Why are you seeking to punish people for being successful and imposing feminine values on captains of industry?

The important thing to understand when thinking about right wingers as a whole is that they are nowhere near as interested in the same kind of mono-think that leftists are. They don't usually fight amongst themselves (because, why?, since it's not that important for us to agree), but they aren't constantly patting one another on the back in support either, and views/attitudes tend to differ. Look at the small handful of conservatives on this forum for a good example- you rarely see them talking to each other or reinforcing each other. It's why political debates here are always 5 on 1 when they break out. With that in mind, there are the big business crony capitalist right wingers (rare, like 1%), and then there's the small business right wingers, which are very much against crony capitalism (because they're the ones directly competing with the big business ones), and that demographic constitutes the bulk of right wingers overall. The dirty trick the left pulls is that they look only at the 1% crony capitalists, and using their own mono-think formula as projection onto right wingers, they attempt to paint all of the right with that "deplorable" 1% brush, when in reality most people on the right are just honest hard working folks with a different life philosophy than honest hard working leftwing folks. The dirty trick the establishment right pulls is the same thing, just in reverse, pretending that the 1% who has bought and paid for them represents the rest- so they constantly look the other way on updating and bettering anti-trust laws.

 

[Coriolis]

The problem with gates is the primary problem with capitalism, and one of the areas I believe in government intervention. He's a monopolist. A convicted one, at that. He doesn't just want money and power, he wants to prevent others from acquiring it. That's where I, and everyone else on the right, draws the line.

Where do you draw the line? Do you use Windows? None of us needs to be his customer. When the federal government was pursuing the antitrust lawsuit I said it would be more effective for them simply to stop being his customer. Switch the government to linux; it is more secure anyway. Don't have all the apps you need? You can bet enterprising developers will flock to provide, if every government office and then their contractors are using linux/open source.

 

[anticlimatic]

Where do you draw the line? Do you use Windows? None of us needs to be his customer. When the federal government was pursuing the antitrust lawsuit I said it would be more effective for them simply to stop being his customer. Switch the government to linux; it is more secure anyway. Don't have all the apps you need? You can bet enterprising developers will flock to provide, if every government office and then their contractors are using linux/open source.

I meant it's where we draw the line on supporting unregulated capitalism. Once a monopoly is established, it starts to devour the competition based freedom of opportunity markets we like.

I used Apple products from the early 90s until Tim Cook took over (he's just another Bill INTJ Gates as far as I'm concerned), I have Ubuntu on my laptop currently and Windows 10 on my desktop. I love Linux but I just don't have the time or skill set to get everything I want to work working on it (I'm not in the tech field at all), so I have to resort to windows since it's the only option for a Basic like me. I still consider it a monopoly- still loathe it.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I use Mac desktop because it’s arguably a superior machine for making music. It’s an older Mac but still powerful for my needs.

I’ve never had any major virus issues the way happens with windows if you just look at it the wrong way

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

then there's people on both parties at this point, are they RJWs? Right Justice Warriors? who just scream I IZ CORRECT AND IF YOUZ DISAGREE WIT ME YOUZ IS EVIL AND SHIT AND SHOULD KILL OYURSELF AND IMMA DOX YOU SO YOU LOZE YOUR JOB AND SHIT. How the fuck is that okay?

whenever the right scream about SJWs I laugh because its like those memes where Karen becomes a manager.

you became the very thing you sought to destroy. XD

It's true. Undoubtedly the sort of SJWs you're talking about still exist, but it's not as common as it once was. Hopefully if Biden wins they won't become ascendant again.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The important thing to understand when thinking about right wingers as a whole is that they are nowhere near as interested in the same kind of mono-think that leftists are. They don't usually fight amongst themselves (because, why?, since it's not that important for us to agree), but they aren't constantly patting one another on the back in support either, and views/attitudes tend to differ. Look at the small handful of conservatives on this forum for a good example- you rarely see them talking to each other or reinforcing each other. It's why political debates here are always 5 on 1 when they break out. With that in mind, there are the big business crony capitalist right wingers (rare, like 1%), and then there's the small business right wingers, which are very much against crony capitalism (because they're the ones directly competing with the big business ones), and that demographic constitutes the bulk of right wingers overall. The dirty trick the left pulls is that they look only at the 1% crony capitalists, and using their own mono-think formula as projection onto right wingers, they attempt to paint all of the right with that "deplorable" 1% brush, when in reality most people on the right are just honest hard working folks with a different life philosophy than honest hard working leftwing folks. The dirty trick the establishment right pulls is the same thing, just in reverse, pretending that the 1% who has bought and paid for them represents the rest- so they constantly look the other way on updating and bettering anti-trust laws.

Interesting. [MENTION=20113]Tellenbach[/MENTION], how do you feel about how the Clinton administration treated Bill Gates? Also, how long have you been voting for Republicans

I find it hard to believe that the majority of Trump voters are against crony capitalism. They wouldn't have gotten so enthusiastic about Trump if that was the case.

 

[ceecee]

I use Windows and Mac. And when I think of Bill Gates I think of this.

The trouble with charitable billionaires | News | The Guardian

I disagree with monopolies and whenever I think of them I think - we went through this shit over a century ago, do we ever learn?

 

[Tellenbach]

how do you feel about how the Clinton administration treated Bill Gates? Also, how long have you been voting for Republicans

I voted for Ross Perot twice. I think the Perot/Clinton/Bush Sr election was my first Presidential vote, but if Perot had not been in the race, I would've voted for Bush Sr. As an intuitive ISTJ, I took one look at Clinton and saw a dishonest car salesman type of politician. My spidey sense warned me about him and I think was proven right.

I find it hard to believe that the majority of Trump voters are against crony capitalism. They wouldn't have gotten so enthusiastic about Trump if that was the case.

Libertarians oppose crony capitalism. We don't believe the government should play favorites using tax payer dollars. That said, most Republican politicians, oppose libertarian policies. Basically, we libertarians are stuck in the GOP because the Dems are outright insane.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I use Windows and Mac. And when I think of Bill Gates I think of this.

The trouble with charitable billionaires | News | The Guardian

I disagree with monopolies and whenever I think of them I think - we went through this shit over a century ago, do we ever learn?

Thanks for that link.

I found this in particular valuable:

Essentially, what we are witnessing is the transfer of responsibility for public goods and services from democratic institutions to the wealthy, to be administered by an executive class. In the CEO society, the exercise of social responsibilities is no longer debated in terms of whether corporations should or shouldn’t be responsible for more than their own business interests. Instead, it is about how philanthropy can be used to reinforce a politico-economic system that enables such a small number of people to accumulate obscene amounts of wealth. Zuckerberg’s investment in solutions to the Bay Area housing crisis is an example of this broader trend.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I voted for Ross Perot twice. I think the Perot/Clinton/Bush Sr election was my first Presidential vote, but if Perot had not been in the race, I would've voted for Bush Sr. As an intuitive ISTJ, I took one look at Clinton and saw a dishonest car salesman type of politician. My spidey sense warned me about him and I think was proven right.

Right, but what about when the Clinton administration went after Bill Gates? Was that justified in your view? I only vaguely remember that myself and don't have an opinion on it, so I'd like to learn more about that.

 

[Jaguar]

The problem with gates is the primary problem with capitalism, and one of the areas I believe in government intervention. He's a monopolist. A convicted one, at that. He doesn't just want money and power, he wants to prevent others from acquiring it. That's where I, and everyone else on the right, draws the line.

You used to be a liberal and suddenly you're the spokesperson for the right and claiming to know where every person draws a line? Or could it be you didn't interview any people on the right—much less 'everyone else' on the right—and you're just making generalizations about groups of people to suit your agenda?

 

[Tellenbach]

Right, but what about when the Clinton administration went after Bill Gates? Was that justified in your view?

They went after Microsoft for bundling Internet Explorer with its operating system. I see nothing wrong with it especially since it was free. Why can't a company give away free software? Basically, you had Democrats who were mad that Microsoft didn't pay them "protection money" to leave them alone. Totally despicable move by Clinton's administration.

 

[anticlimatic]

You used to be a liberal and suddenly you're the spokesperson for the right and claiming to know where every person draws a line? Or could it be you didn't interview any people on the right—much less 'everyone else' on the right—and you're just making generalizations about groups of people to suit your agenda?

What 'agenda' might that be?

I'm the spokesperson for my own empirical data, just like everyone else. This is an obvious element of human to human conversation. I think you've been locked up in your basement with your mask on a bit too long, friend. Might be time to join society again.

 

[Jaguar]

Where do you draw the line? Do you use Windows? None of us needs to be his customer. When the federal government was pursuing the antitrust lawsuit I said it would be more effective for them simply to stop being his customer. Switch the government to linux; it is more secure anyway. Don't have all the apps you need? You can bet enterprising developers will flock to provide, if every government office and then their contractors are using linux/open source.

I switched from Windows to Mac years ago. I was tired of the bugs in Internet Explorer, constant patches for security breaches, and how many of us had to collectively hold our breath when upgrading the damn browser because it had the ability to screw up the entire OS afterwards. I'm no fan of Bill, his products, or his business practices. Good riddance. I will never go back.

 

[Jaguar]

What 'agenda' might that be?

You tell me. It's like watching a ping pong ball bounce back and forth while for some odd reason still being obsessed with group I.D. Why not simply state your individual position on an issue without any mention of a 'they,' 'us' or 'them'?

I think you've been locked up in your basement with your mask on a bit too long, friend. Might be time to join society again.

Exactly opposite my personality. Is that the best you can do?

 

[Coriolis]

I meant it's where we draw the line on supporting unregulated capitalism. Once a monopoly is established, it starts to devour the competition based freedom of opportunity markets we like.

I used Apple products from the early 90s until Tim Cook took over (he's just another Bill INTJ Gates as far as I'm concerned), I have Ubuntu on my laptop currently and Windows 10 on my desktop. I love Linux but I just don't have the time or skill set to get everything I want to work working on it (I'm not in the tech field at all), so I have to resort to windows since it's the only option for a Basic like me. I still consider it a monopoly- still loathe it.

Really? Have you tried linux lately? I also have no more patience for the Apple business model than for Microsoft, and have used Linux at home for over a decade now. Over that time I have seen it get progressively more user-friendly and problem-free. I know how to get things to work if they don't but I don't have to any longer. If you want to try it again, I suggest Ubuntu. I think we have a thread on this in science/technology, where others may have different recommendations.

I switched from Windows to Mac years ago. I was tired of the bugs in Internet Explorer, constant patches for security breaches, and how many of us had to collectively hold our breath when upgrading the damn browser because it had the ability to screw up the entire OS afterwards. I'm no fan of Bill, his products, or his business practices. Good riddance. I will never go back.

Same here. Sadly, we are forced to use MS products at work.

 

[anticlimatic]

Really? Have you tried linux lately? I also have no more patience for the Apple business model than for Microsoft, and have used Linux at home for over a decade now. Over that time I have seen it get progressively more user-friendly and problem-free. I know how to get things to work if they don't but I don't have to any longer. If you want to try it again, I suggest Ubuntu. I think we have a thread on this in science/technology, where others may have different recommendations.


Same here. Sadly, we are forced to use MS products at work.

My problem is mostly that I'm running Ubuntu on a really crappy laptop some junkie left behind after she was evicted from her apartment, and the hardware involved really doesn't like Linux for some reason (it's an AMD A8 or some such from 2011ish). That, and I don't know how to do anything from the command prompt on my own. ~sudo hd run wtfamIdoing//help.me.jesusGod. I have to literally copy and paste from tutorials just to install any basic software. It's not the machine's fault that im an idiot, it's just that literally every second of every day is already accounted for with non-computer things (except browsing and PUBG when I have recreation time- recreation time I am not interested in sacrificing just to teach myself how to use an OS that I would probably have to buy and build a new computer for anyway). Ubuntu is very user friendly other than installing and battling software to get them to work, I liked it a lot. Still has a ways to go though before the basic Mac/PC user can grab it and use it without pulling out their hair. If it gets there, sign me up.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

My problem is mostly that I'm running Ubuntu on a really crappy laptop some junkie left behind after she was evicted from her apartment, and the hardware involved really doesn't like Linux for some reason (it's an AMD A8 or some such from 2011ish). That, and I don't know how to do anything from the command prompt on my own. ~sudo hd run wtfamIdoing//help.me.jesusGod. I have to literally copy and paste from tutorials just to install any basic software. It's not the machine's fault that im an idiot, it's just that literally every second of every day is already accounted for with non-computer things (except browsing and PUBG when I have recreation time- recreation time I am not interested in sacrificing just to teach myself how to use an OS that I would probably have to buy and build a new computer for anyway). Ubuntu is very user friendly other than installing and battling software to get them to work, I liked it a lot. Still has a ways to go though before the basic Mac/PC user can grab it and use it without pulling out their hair. If it gets there, sign me up.

Do you know about the man command in the terminal? If you type man before a command, it pulls up an instruction page.

 

[Coriolis]

My problem is mostly that I'm running Ubuntu on a really crappy laptop some junkie left behind after she was evicted from her apartment, and the hardware involved really doesn't like Linux for some reason (it's an AMD A8 or some such from 2011ish). That, and I don't know how to do anything from the command prompt on my own. ~sudo hd run wtfamIdoing//help.me.jesusGod. I have to literally copy and paste from tutorials just to install any basic software. It's not the machine's fault that im an idiot, it's just that literally every second of every day is already accounted for with non-computer things (except browsing and PUBG when I have recreation time- recreation time I am not interested in sacrificing just to teach myself how to use an OS that I would probably have to buy and build a new computer for anyway). Ubuntu is very user friendly other than installing and battling software to get them to work, I liked it a lot. Still has a ways to go though before the basic Mac/PC user can grab it and use it without pulling out their hair. If it gets there, sign me up.

If you have older hardware, try a lightweight, modern distro of Ubuntu: Lubuntu or Xubuntu. I have installed these on older or barebones systems and found them to be completely plug-and-play. No need for CLI at all. YMMV, but it is worth a try if you have half an hour or so.

 

[anticlimatic]

Conservative is the new counter culture.