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Video: iNFJ Naked Soul

violet_crown

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Actually, no. Not at all.

I felt her unspoken under the surface hostility. Just like I feel when people are being dishonest.

I'm not interested in discussing your marital problems. It's just not relevant to the conversation we're having.

You might view empathy as different between Fi users and Fe users, but please do try to impose your opinion on those different from you.

How is simply stating an opinion imposing it on anyone? I didn't feel you disagreeing with my opinion was "imposing" your assessment on me. It's just what you think. I don't agree with it, but you're entitled to think whatever you want. This is the exact difference I'm talking about. My understanding of what it means to relate to someone is not "say what makes me happy or stfu".
 

SearchingforPeace

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How is simply stating an opinion imposing it on anyone? I didn't feel you disagreeing with my opinion was "imposing" your assessment on me. It's just what you think. I don't agree with it, but you're entitled to think whatever you want. This is the exact difference I'm talking about. My understanding of what it means to relate to someone is not "say what makes me happy or stfu".

You repeatedly said Fe users don't have empathy. You tried to cite some alleged outside source.

I gave real concrete examples and an exterior definition, which you ignored and instead tried to deny what I expressed.

If that wasn't a STFU, what was it?
 

violet_crown

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I gave real concrete examples and an exterior definition, which you ignored and instead tried to deny what I expressed

If that wasn't a STFU, what was it?

Ok. Let's back up.

What I'm sensing is that what you're wanting right now is for me to understand your point as valid because it's true to your experience. And by saying that I don't agree with what you're saying, I'm somehow denying that the things that you've shared with me are in fact true. The point that you want me to come to is to recognize that because your experience is true to you and my experience is true to me, we should be able to have an exchange as individuals without necessarily claiming that one view is superior over all the rest. Because the experiences that we're sharing are as valuable as the people who are sharing them. And because I'm apparently unwilling to consider your point of view as presented, you're feeling justifiably upset with me.

Would you say this is close to an accurate assessment of what you're feeling right now?
 

SearchingforPeace

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Ok. Let's back up.

What I'm sensing is that what you're wanting right now is for me to understand your point as valid because it's true to your experience. And by saying that I don't agree with what you're saying, I'm somehow denying that the things that you've shared with me are in fact true. The point that you want me to come to is to recognize that because your experience is true to you and my experience is true to me, we should be able to have an exchange as individuals without necessarily claiming that one view is superior over all the rest. Because the experiences that we're sharing are as valuable as the people who are sharing them. And because I'm apparently unwilling to consider your point of view as presented, you're feeling justifiably upset with me.

Would you say this is close to an accurate assessment of what you're feeling right now?

Pretty much. You jumped on here to state your view that Fe users don't have empathy and then continued to reject the idea that perhaps there is more to empathy than your perception of it, rejecting what I said in particular.

Fe and Fi are different. And that is great.

I do find it strange that Fi users try to say Fe users don't have empathy and I have never seen Fe users claim that Fi users don't have empathy.
 

Ghost

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My soul has clothes on.
 

violet_crown

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Pretty much.

Oh good. Now we're getting somewhere.

Now, what I just displayed in the previous post was the ability to put my own feelings about this situation aside, and give a fair assessment of what you may be feeling given the way that you've interacted with me in this thread. I didn't just "find corresponding emotions within myself", I took time to think about things from your perspective, and understand your motivations. That is what it means to have the "capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within the other person's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's shoes." (here's a source for that in case you need the "textbook").

Your response, however, is the point that I've been making for most of this thread. Rather than do the same in kind (i.e., ask yourself why I might hold the opinion that I hold, or why my differences from you might cause me to discuss those opinions in a diverging fashion), you have structured your entire response around how my interaction with you made you feel. To wit:

You jumped on here to state your view that Fe users don't have empathy and then continued to reject the idea that perhaps there is more to empathy than your perception of it, rejecting what I said in particular.

Nothing in what you've said there makes me feel like you have a direct conduit into anything about me, nor are interested in having one. You are interested in having an interaction that you can walk away feeling good about, which is cool, but it's not empathy. This is what I was talking about when I said that I am highly skeptical of the Fe brand of empathy, especially in INFJs.



(That said, I'm not demonstrating a ton of compassion for what I do understand of you by calling you out like this, but that's kind of a separate issue...)
 

SearchingforPeace

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You are interested in having an interaction that you can walk away feeling good about, which is cool, but it's not empathy. This is what I was talking about when I said that I am highly skeptical of the Fe brand of empathy, especially in INFJs.

(That said, I'm not demonstrating a ton of compassion for what I do understand of you by calling you out like this, but that's kind of a separate issue...)

Wow, silly ENTJ trying to show it has empathy...so cute. And so not empathy...

Unlike you, I didn't play games trying to make a pretend point.

Again, are we in the same room? Have I talked with you? Did I put forth any effort to reach a common ground?

I just disputed your effort to mischaracterize Fe.

Then you decided to make a point after I called on your actions.

Again, I wasn't trying for common ground..... I made no effort to discuss the nature of Fi, especially inferior Fi.

From what you stated, you needed to intellectually process things, to try and figure things out. It appears that you thought, not felt.

Sorry, but you really don't understand the least bit of Fe if you think this validates your point.

Perhaps if you actually considered my examples instead of dismissing then, you might learn something......
 

cascadeco

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uggghhh

SearchingforPeace said:
Wow, silly ENTJ trying to show it has empathy...so cute. And so not empathy...

Perhaps if you actually considered my examples instead of dismissing then, you might learn something......

Well, if Wind-up isn't showing empathy, you certainly aren't either, so it's a draw!! lol.
 

violet_crown

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Wow, silly ENTJ trying to show it has empathy...so cute. And so not empathy...

Unlike you, I didn't play games trying to make a pretend point.

Again, are we in the same room? Have I talked with you? Did I put forth any effort to reach a common ground?

I just disputed your effort to mischaracterize Fe.

Then you decided to make a point after I called on your actions.

Again, I wasn't trying for common ground..... I made no effort to discuss the nature of Fi, especially inferior Fi.

From what you stated, you needed to intellectually process things, to try and figure things out. It appears that you thought, not felt.

Sorry, but you really don't understand the least bit of Fe if you think this validates your point.

Perhaps if you actually considered my examples instead of dismissing then, you might learn something......

Gotta love that Fe warmth and civility! :laugh:

Well, if Wind-up isn't showing empathy, you certainly aren't either, so it's a draw!! lol.

Hey! I already said that my interaction--empathetic or not--was probably lacking in compassion. I feel I should get points for at least admitting that I have a problem. :(
 

evilrubberduckie

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I like fish tacos.

Fuck. Now I want fish tacos.

Its too dark to go driving around for fish tacos...

I get my paycheck tomorrow...

That's It I decided. Im eating fish tacos tomorrow.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Gotta love that Fe warmth and civility!
Only giving back to you in the spirit you conveyed :hug:

Hey! I already said that my interaction--empathetic or not--was probably lacking in compassion. I feel I should get points for at least admitting that I have a problem. :(

Point given.

I am not an ENFJ, so civility is secondary point, at best for me, especially with Ti engaged.

And my Ti cares nothing about compassion...... or empathy....

But with Fe, I do find it impossible to have empathy for others without compassion, so I find it interesting that you can attempt empathy and ignore compassion.

My ENFP friend can have empathy for everyone except bad people. She says she gets an instant disconnect with them. Me, I have no problem having empathy and compassion for anyone, even guys on death row and guys that deserve to be there.
 

PeaceBaby

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Only giving back to you in the spirit you conveyed :hug:

This is the crux of nearly every problem you experience in interaction - you tend to give back what you BELIEVE you've been given. You are so sensitized to hear Te as harsh that even a tone of normal, civil interaction is misinterpreted by you. Note I am saying by YOU, since you are the person who has made the initial misread. YOU have caused this issue, here.

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] is correct in saying that you have interpreted the interaction by how it made you feel, not by what was actually conveyed.
 

ceecee

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I love the part about seeing into others souls without their permission. Then commenting how some people feel violated by it, like....why would they be?


The camera constantly moving around was way irritating too.
 

PeaceBaby

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As for the video:

It sure can be scary for other people interacting with (some) INFJs because one never knows what inaccuracy an INFJ might project onto them and claim as truth. People do tend to feel violated when someone describes their soul space through their own lens, without a sense of sacred space.

Stereotypical video of an INFJ who's high on being an INFJ.
 

SearchingforPeace

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This is the crux of nearly every problem you experience in interaction - you tend to give back what you BELIEVE you've been given. You are so sensitized to hear Te as harsh that even a tone of normal, civil interaction is misinterpreted by you. Note I am saying by YOU, since you are the person who has made the initial misread. YOU have caused this issue, here.

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] is correct in saying that you have interpreted the interaction by how it made you feel, not by what was actually conveyed.

Misread?

Wind Up Rex said:
I'm skeptical of the concept of Fe-based empathy. I think Fe users can be sympathetic as in they know what would be the most supportive response to give someone once they know the other person's emotional state, but I think the nature of Fe makes the process of relating to a person--individually, and as they are--not genuinely within their purview.

I don't see a misread.....

Here is a bit more

Wind Up Rex said:

That's not empathy.


It's just not relevant to the conversation we're having.blessbless


You are interested in having an interaction that you can walk away feeling good about, which is cool, but it's not empathy. This is what I was talking about when I said that I am highly skeptical of the Fe brand of empathy, especially in INFJs.

She ignored my examples, said I was wrong, and then backed up to try and make a point.....

But I am wrong..... of course. I must be reacting to Te, that is it. Of course. Just conditioning.

Not that she dismissed everything I wrote....and then made it into little game at my expense.

Sorry.... I can't agree.
 

SearchingforPeace

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As for the video:

It sure can be scary for other people interacting with (some) INFJs because one never knows what inaccuracy an INFJ might project onto them and claim as truth. People do tend to feel violated when someone describes their soul space through their own lens, without a sense of sacred space.

Stereotypical video of an INFJ who's high on being an INFJ.

I guess no other type is high on themselves or ever projects on others. Hmmm.... or is wrong with that believe about others on occasions.....
 
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