Video: iNFJ Naked Soul

[highlander]

• INFJ talks about people being transparent to him. Do you think it's true?

 

[JocktheMotie]

No

 

[JocktheMotie]

Ha, that video is why people can hate Ni users/doms.

 

[violet_crown]

If he really had insight into the souls of those around him, he'd know how wrong he was for that jacket/beard combination.

 

[FemMecha]

Oh, he's definitely not high, he's just an INFJ.

It is human nature to feel vulnerable to the unpredictable actions of others. People tend to find ways to compensate for this vulnerability by making the actions of others more predictable. For some, it is to show aggression and get a consistently negative reaction from others. Some people try to be extra nice to create a predictably positive reaction. Some people are very shy and quiet to ensure people ignore them. In this case, the assumption to be able to know everything about others creates an illusion of safety from the unexpected.

It's not 100% true, but there is a tendency for INFJs to be analytical of behaviors, which in some cases can help develop the skill of reading subtleties in people that others may overlook. The only way to be accurate with this, regardless of type, is to be willing to learn and admit the times we make mistakes. There is no way to get around the unpredictability of dealing with people. No one has a defense mechanism that solves the problem. We all get surprised and hurt.

Ha, that video is why people can hate Ni users/doms.

But why? Just because they don't have to pay for weed to trip out?

 

[Qlip]

Ewww. It's kind of like a Feeler version of DJArendee, which is even grosser for some reason.

 

[Forever]

Is it me or does it feel like he's just talking in front of a green screen with a bad camera? LOL.

 

[cascadeco]

I stopped watching after he said 'we have total awareness of everything around us'. lol

Also, I was more mesmerized by the camera effect, it seemed he wasn't part of the background or was on a merry go round or something.

 

[JocktheMotie]

But why? Just because they don't have to pay for weed to trip out?

It's the assumption of total or privileged awareness and perspective.

 

[violet_crown]

Oh, he's definitely not high, he's just an INFJ.

It is human nature to feel vulnerable to the unpredictable actions of others. People tend to find ways to compensate for this vulnerability by making the actions of others more predictable. For some, it is to show aggression and get a consistently negative reaction from others. Some people try to be extra nice to create a predictably positive reaction. Some people are very shy and quiet to ensure people ignore them. In this case, the assumption to be able to know everything about others creates an illusion of safety from the unexpected.

It's not 100% true, but there is a tendency for INFJs to be analytical of behaviors, which in some cases can help develop the skill of reading subtleties in people that others may overlook. The only way to be accurate with this, regardless of type, is to be willing to learn and admit the times we make mistakes. There is no way to get around the unpredictability of dealing with people. No one has a defense mechanism that solves the problem. We all get surprised and hurt.


But why? Just because they don't have to pay for weed to trip out?

I'm skeptical of the concept of Fe-based empathy. I think Fe users can be sympathetic as in they know what would be the most supportive response to give someone once they know the other person's emotional state, but I think the nature of Fe makes the process of relating to a person--individually, and as they are--not genuinely within their purview.

I think this is doubly so in the case of Ni-led Fe, as the "insight" that the INFJ is likely to have is more based on the potentials that they perceive within the person than anything to do with who that person is necessarily.

That said, they're good with groups. They're particularly good at making a space where people who respect their values feel welcome and understood.

 

[FemMecha]

I'm skeptical of the concept of Fe-based empathy. I think Fe users can be sympathetic as in they know what would be the most supportive response to give someone once they know the other person's emotional state, but I think the nature of Fe makes the process of relating to a person--individually, and as they are--not genuinely within their purview.

I think this is doubly so in the case of Ni-led Fe, as the "insight" that the INFJ is likely to have is more based on the potentials that they perceive within the person than anything to do with who that person is necessarily.

That said, they're good with groups. They're particularly good at making a space where people who respect their values feel welcome and understood.

I suspect that no human being can fully comprehend another. I also don't know how the limits of Fe or Fi work. I'm horrible with groups, so much so that I can only work with people one-on-one, but the general consensus has been I'm INFJ. I'm horrible with most Fe related anything. Different types can see different aspects of each other. It takes many perspectives to get a true sense of any person.

Also, I've noticed there is even a kind of T-empathy in which someone can get their head around how someone thinks, or get the gist of their knowledge base. I suspect there are many forms of empathy that go beyond Fi, Fe, or anything else. There is Sensory empathy as well.

And I agree he is offensive, although I don't think he is all "there". Pointing out the obvious - if he could read reactions, he wouldn't create such an offensive video. I'd guess the opposite is true - that he tends to be oblivious, which could motivate his assertions.

 

[cascadeco]

I think this is doubly so in the case of Ni-led Fe, as the "insight" that the INFJ is likely to have is more based on the potentials that they perceive within the person than anything to do with who that person is necessarily.

I've observed this as well, though to be fair, I have seen it with other Fe users, so don't think it's exclusive to nfj's. It also may have crossover to Fi, or may be more tied to N in general, I really don't know. To me it can come across as presumptuous, that person thinking they 'see' something but really they are more guided by their own idealism or wishes than actually seeing the person right in front of them in that instant. Almost like creating their own projection of that person based on their own notion of how that person 'should' be or who they want them to be?

 

[violet_crown]

I've observed this as well, though to be fair, I have seen it with other Fe users, so don't think it's exclusive to nfj's. It also may have crossover to Fi, or may be more tied to N in general, I really don't know. To me it can come across as presumptuous, that person thinking they 'see' something but really they are more guided by their own idealism or wishes than actually seeing the person right in front of them in that instant. Almost like creating their own projection of that person based on their own notion of how that person 'should' be?

My experience with the Fi version of this is the continuous willingness to give someone the benefit of the doubt even when on an intellectual level you know that person is not as great as you feel they are. I've definitely been in situations where because of some connection I feel with another person, it virtually impairs my ability to be objective about their behavior in any sense. I think a lot of Fi users can be so in tune with how a particular person arrived at something that they can feel it's justified because it makes sense within the logic of that person.

My experience with Fe users is that they're able to keep a cooler head when it comes to those sorts of evaluations. Even when they can understand how someone arrives at a particular point, they have this core value set about how things should be in a normative sense that allows them to say, "I feel you, but you were still wrong for that." Fi's natural tendency towards relativism is definitely somewhat sloppy in comparison lol.

 

[FemMecha]

I've observed this as well, though to be fair, I have seen it with other Fe users, so don't think it's exclusive to nfj's. It also may have crossover to Fi, or may be more tied to N in general, I really don't know. To me it can come across as presumptuous, that person thinking they 'see' something but really they are more guided by their own idealism or wishes than actually seeing the person right in front of them in that instant. Almost like creating their own projection of that person based on their own notion of how that person 'should' be or who they want them to be?

I realize this is from another conversation, but one key issue that can be problematic is the degree of certitude in dealing with something as complex as another human being, and certitude in terms of moral right and wrongs, whether internally or externally created.

When I've been very close to someone who was hurtful, I've tended to understand well enough why they were hurtful to feel their justification for it, in place of my own opinion about it. In that way I can let it go on longer than it should. That is an example of too little certitude in a specific scenario.

There seems to need to be a balance between having an opinion, an impression, and remaining open to revising that impression when new information comes.

This may or may not be a popular thing to say, but isn't there some reason to say that Feelers have some ability to read people? Not solely INFJs for certain, but if Thinkers generally assume and/or are viewed as having skill with logic and objectivity, then why wouldn't Feeler have some skill reading subjective systems? Obviously this guy was doing a dominance play assuming to completely read people. It is an intrusive and arrogant statement, but he is exaggerating something that might have some credibility? Isn't it offensive in the same way a video of a stoned Thinker saying he's a genius and purely objective in understanding all of reality would be offensive?

 

[cascadeco]

Isn't it offensive in the same way a video of a stoned Thinker saying he's a genius and purely objective in understanding all of reality would be offensive?

Yes, totally. I roll my eyes just as much at Thinkers who believe themselves to be so.

It just seems to be a warped distortion of ones own abilities. I do agree that absolutely, some people Are in fact more adept at x, or y, or z, but going from that, to an extreme of making statements like 'I have total awareness', is just stupid and really un-self-aware imo. But yeah, every single personality type has its version of this person.

 

[Cygnus]

Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I'm skeptical of the concept of Fe-based empathy. I think Fe users can be sympathetic as in they know what would be the most supportive response to give someone once they know the other person's emotional state, but I think the nature of Fe makes the process of relating to a person--individually, and as they are--not genuinely within their purview.

I think this is doubly so in the case of Ni-led Fe, as the "insight" that the INFJ is likely to have is more based on the potentials that they perceive within the person than anything to do with who that person is necessarily.

That said, they're good with groups. They're particularly good at making a space where people who respect their values feel welcome and understood.

Fi looks inside themselves for a corresponding emotion. Fe can feel what they are feeling without looking inside themselves first.

I know when my sons are about to go wild. I can sense it from quite a distance. My wife is unaware. My ENTJ friend says his ISFJ wife regularly alerts him to when their children are about to fight, even when the children are upstairs and the parents are downstairs.

We just sense it. Back when my wife was fully messed up over the last few years, I felt her hostility every day, even when she was seemingly calm and happy.

When I was child, part of the reason my brother's abuse was so bad was because I felt the anger behind the abuse as well.

It might not make sense to you. It isn't about individuality versus groups. It is just a direct conduit.

 

[FemMecha]

Yes, totally. I roll my eyes just as much at Thinkers who believe themselves to be so.

It just seems to be a warped distortion of ones own abilities. I do agree that absolutely, some people Are in fact more adept at x, or y, or z, but going from that, to an extreme of making statements like 'I have total awareness', is just stupid and really un-self-aware imo. But yeah, every single personality type has its version of this person.

Definitely warped and likely the opposite of reality - as a result humanity's old friend, overcompensation for personal weaknesses. The video in the OP is playing a really weird mind game, although fortunately it is poorly played. I've had many different personality types tell me all about myself throughout a lifetime, and sometimes they had me convinced.

I just hope INFJs can get some kind of good press at some point. While there have been times when I feel threatened I can get too much certitude as a defense mechanism, and I could certainly wax poetic about personal failings, I also don't presume to actually know everything about even my own mother or romantic partner. Although, I do throw out theories about analyzing people almost constantly - it doesn't mean I'm committed to those statements. I don't relate to the OP. Each type has a different sort of insight, and what I would venture to say about INFJs due to the whole Ni function, is that when they are right they can be very right and when wrong, very wrong. Being non-normative by nature, there can be a tendency to pick up on outlier information that falls outside of norms. It's not overall more insight, but just a different type that can contribute to the overall perceptions and insights people can gather. One could argue that normative-based insights are statistically more often correct. It's why I do poorly teaching groups, but feel at home with neuro-atypical students in individual lessons. For example, most ESFJs are better teachers than me in group settings, and they are more accurate in reading the needs and outcomes of normative groups. I have more skill learning how someone communicates who has reinvented the use of the English language - like autistic students. It's generally not that helpful, but a useful skill for those outliers that don't fit normative assumptions and frameworks.

 

[violet_crown]

Fi looks inside themselves for a corresponding emotion. Fe can feel what they are feeling without looking inside themselves first.

I know when my sons are about to go wild. I can sense it from quite a distance. My wife is unaware. My ENTJ friend says his ISFJ wife regularly alerts him to when their children are about to fight, even when the children are upstairs and the parents are downstairs.

We just sense it. Back when my wife was fully messed up over the last few years, I felt her hostility every day, even when she was seemingly calm and happy.

When I was child, part of the reason my brother's abuse was so bad was because I felt the anger behind the abuse as well.

It might not make sense to you. It isn't about individuality versus groups. It is just a direct conduit.

Most of the things you're describing seem to be you recognizing your own feelings in response to someone else's behavior. You experienced hostility emanating from your wife in her interaction with you, and therefore arrived at the conclusion that she was feeling angry and hostile towards you. That's not empathy.

I never said that Fe users can't read people or read a room. They're highly capable at that. I just don't think that that should be conflated with experiencing someone's emotions as your own, which is what the textbook definition of empathy is. That Fi ability to recognize a "corresponding emotion" within ourselves is what makes us actually able to genuinely connect with the other person. We see that we are no different than them, and if our circumstances were the same, we might respond in a similar way. As opposed to worrying about how their "upsetting feelings" are just messing up our universe.

Either way, I think what I'm reacting to is something that [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] hit it on the head when she pointed to the idea that it's arrogant for anyone to assume they have a "direct conduit" into someone else's soul. People are cool because they are kind of unknowable in a way, and I think that mystery calls for humility.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Most of the things you're describing seem to be you recognizing your own feelings in response to someone else's behavior.

Actually, no. Not at all.

You experienced hostility emanating from your wife in her interaction with you, and therefore arrived at the conclusion that she was feeling angry and hostile towards you. That's not empathy.

I felt her unspoken under the surface hostility. Just like I feel when people are being dishonest.

the feeling that you understand and share another person's experiences and emotions : the ability to share someone else's feelings

You might view empathy as different between Fi users and Fe users, but please do try to impose your opinion on those different from you.

Either way, I think what I'm reacting to is something that [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] hit it on the head when she pointed to the idea that it's arrogant for anyone to assume they have a "direct conduit" into someone else's soul. People are cool because they are kind of unknowable in a way, and I think that mystery calls for humility.

Ha, the chief belief.....that no one can truly know another. And yet so many are unaware of how their emotions are thrown out for others. It isn't to their soul, but it is definitely the unexpressed things, those emotions they think are hidden.

Can some exaggerate this a bit? Sure.

But you tell me how I knew my son was about to go and attack his aunt when he was 60 feet away from me and I wasn't even looking at him and with no one else having the least clue?