Type Me (New and Improved With Marmite Flavour!)

[Rajah]

I like to let things go haywire and bring them to order. I'll be back later.

Oh, and we don't like feeling toyed with!

 

[Geoff]

Another thing I do not think y'all are getting is that Jen might look like she's doing what you're saying -- because that's what it looks like on the surface -- but mostly she's just bored and jerking your chain around.

What I have found with ESFJs is that often when using Fe badly, they're NOT aware of it... or they're a mess and inside and recognize that much but have no idea what's wrong or how to fix it. Because they're stuck in their frame of reference.

Hmm. I hear what you are saying.. what I see here though is twisting as a defence mechanism when Jen feels like she is being personally attacked. She's looking for an escape clause - because her Fe has gone wrong and she's stuck in a discussion and feels uncomfortable.

I don't see many of the posts like that as her enjoying having fun with it. There are a couple like that, but more that are a personal defence mechanism to try and avoid conflict/disagreement.

A classic example is her thanking me for me opinion but then telling me that I'm no good at judging personalities online. There is nothing there other than self defence.

 

[MetalWounds]

It seems like things are getting a bit more dramatic than they need to.

I think a few people would benefit from stepping back for a moment to put things into perspective.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Actually, I've been at the receiving end of this before (the team up by you and Edahn and maybe Geoff, in my blog), and so I don't think it's all just her. It just took me a bit of time to catch on, because originally I assumed it was all me too... until I thought about it.

It's the sort of approach you guys are taking that is adding to the confusion; I think there's also some personality dynamic where her style personally rubs you the wrong way, and you're not seeing past it.

Communication is a two-way street. Perhaps the way you are analyzing what's occurring in the thread and attributing particular motivations to her behavior is not reflective of the total reality.

:rolli:

This reminds me of one of the first criticisms I made (about you, I believe) when I came to this site, about people being afraid to openly and honestly criticize other people. What I see you doing in this post is using a bunch of vague terms and ideas to help the OP avoid having to deal with and take responsibility for the issues presented in this thread, including her motivation for starting the thread, the way and reasons she has tried to steer the outcome of the poll, and her reluctance to admit any of this and instead pretend like it was all a game, all along. We're all just different people with clashing styles, so no one's responsible for anything, and we can all just ignore what happened.

 

[Geoff]

Actually, I've been at the receiving end of this before (the team up by you and Edahn and maybe Geoff, in my blog), and so I don't think it's all just her. It just took me a bit of time to catch on, because originally I assumed it was all me too... until I thought about it.

I believe you do me a disservice.. I very rarely post anything on your blog (no offence..!) and I haven't done so in any such way when I have.

In fact, this was the last of the only four posts I've made to your blog :

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-personal-threads/558-seasons-mist-307.html#post210339

Edit : quoted, for the hard of clicking :

I for one appreciate your efforts, especially the mod ones, even as you say when it is helping and advising on general principles (plus it's far less effort than finding a replacement )

 

[Night]

You kids are cute.

 

[colmena]

You kids are cute.

Do you think you're ugly?

 

[Jeffster]

Let's try a more positive approach. For those of you who think I am responding poorly please provide examples of how you think I should be responding instead of asking me the same question over and over.

I think you're responding great. Except for that one post where you pasted in some long thing you didn't write. That had way too many words in it. But the rest of your posts are great, especially when you get all up in Edahn's grill.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Here is a question for the Black Team. What would you say Jen's interaction style is? In-Charge, Chart-The-Course, Get-Things-Going, or Behind-The-Scenes?
Understanding Berens' Interaction Styles

 

[Totenkindly]

:rolli:

This reminds me of one of the first criticisms I made (about you, I believe) when I came to this site, about people being afraid to openly and honestly criticize other people. What I see you doing in this post is using a bunch of vague terms and ideas to help the OP avoid having to deal with and take responsibility for the issues presented in this thread, including her motivation for starting the thread, the way and reasons she has tried to steer the outcome of the poll, and her reluctance to admit any of this and instead pretend like it was all a game, all along. We're all just different people with clashing styles, so no one's responsible for anything, and we can all just ignore what happened.

We can take it up in PM.

Just to clarify, I'm a parent; and I am not an enabler by nature; and I get annoyed by enablers. So I support your actions to avoid enabling people; that's admirable.

But since that isn't what I'm doing, and I already expressed some agreement on what Jen was doing, and I think this situation has facets beyond the one you describe, you're rather just reinforcing what I said in my post: You're only approaching this from one direction... which is contributing to the conflict.

PM me if you want to discuss it further.
(If you don't, that's fine too.)

I believe you do me a disservice.. I very rarely post anything on your blog (no offence..!) and I haven't done so in any such way when I have.

If I misremembered, I'm sorry. (And thanks for your kind response before this one and explaining your side again, I appreciated that.)

 

[Eileen]

Here is a question for the Black Team. What would you say Jen's interaction style is? In-Charge, Chart-The-Course, Get-Things-Going, or Behind-The-Scenes?
Understanding Berens' Interaction Styles

I'm not on the black team, but based on my experience with Jen through the meet-up, I'd say that she is a "Get-Things-Going" person, or possibly an "In Charge."



I can see Jen being INFJ, ENFJ, or ESFJ.

These are my observations from a skim of her blog:

-Ambivert - she may just be slightly one or the other but not CLEARLY introverted or extraverted
-pretty strong use of Fe; i think it's pretty distinctive - seems very, very "FJ"
-doesn't seem to use a lot of Si; doesn't ruminate a lot on the past or make those kinds of associations with events
-doesn't seem to use a lot of Ni, either; I don't see much "universal symbol" stuff happening or images of the future (though she does project future images in private conversation)
-I see both Ne and Se. Lots of Se, actually... lots of "this is what I did today" recording with occasional analysis of what the experience might mean


Cafe's blog, to compare, also has a lot of "this is what I did today." I see a little more Ne and Ni there, but the Se is strong there as well. I feel like Cafe is pretty much a posterchild for INFJs, which makes me think that perhaps there's a developmental reason the blogs are that way as opposed to my somewhat angsty INFJ analysis-ridden blog. One reason might be that I have no husband or children, so all I have to do is think about myself, whereas Cafe and Jen's lives are very much consumed with motherhood/marriage.

I wouldn't rule out ESFJ for Jen. I'm fairly sure she's not ISFJ because she doesn't remind me at all of my mother (who is very ISFJ). But I wouldn't rule out INFJ or ENFJ either. In order for the conversation to be truly PRODUCTIVE, though, it's really important that people get over the "sensors are stupid" thing, because if it is the case that Jen is an ESFJ, it is concurrently the case that she's bright and witty.

 

[Geoff]

In order for the conversation to be truly PRODUCTIVE, though, it's really important that people get over the "sensors are stupid" thing, because if it is the case that Jen is an ESFJ, it is concurrently the case that she's bright and witty.

Absolutely! I typed ESFJ, ultimately, partly because she is outgoing, bright and witty.

I wish some of the sensor-nay sayers could meet some of the bright and funny sensors I work with (who have been professionally typed as well, so they aren't... I think!.. mistypes). There are two ESTJs, one ISTJ and two ESFJs that I know very well.. I get on very well with all of them, and two (one ESTJ, one ESFJ) stand out as bright, funny, and great friends of mine. More so than many of the intuitives I work with!

 

[Ivy]

I wouldn't rule out ESFJ for Jen. I'm fairly sure she's not ISFJ because she doesn't remind me at all of my mother (who is very ISFJ). But I wouldn't rule out INFJ or ENFJ either. In order for the conversation to be truly PRODUCTIVE, though, it's really important that people get over the "sensors are stupid" thing, because if it is the case that Jen is an ESFJ, it is concurrently the case that she's bright and witty.

YES! This is exactly what I've been trying to say, not nearly as sensitively or succinctly as you have here. I could only consider ESFJ if we can completely divorce it from any judgment about intelligence or sheeplikeness, because Jen is intelligent and not a follower. I don't think those things are part and parcel of being an ESFJ.

Again, I stand by ENFJ as my best guess for Jen (although I trust her judgment of herself as an INFJ, she DID ask) but an answer of ESFJ doesn't have to be an insult.

 

[Tigerlily]

I've been delegating and taking the reigns when necessary regarding the black team.

Well as long as everyone realizes that I'm not an idiot then I won't take offense. Heavens knows if I were truly an ESFJ I'd be way more organized than I am and that includes keeping my family in check. right now I am struggling. I feel so scatter brained.

 

[Eileen]

An INFJ would more likely attack this.. hmm.. conceptually - try and argue why they disagree with the typing, or instead just do a screw you, I am what I am approach. In reality I don't think many of them would be in a thread like this looking for the answer, because it is something they are likely to explore for themselves. The one INFJ I know really well (Eileen) is, I would say, much more likely to do this (the self involved reflection response). I doubt the social impact would be of great importance.

I'm more likely to do self involved reflection. (Haha, self-involved might as well be my middle name!) I wouldn't probably post a thread like this, honestly, because I don't like being under this kind of scrutiny. I don't think that I'd respond well to people challenging what I think I know about myself. I assume that I know myself better than all of you guys and I'd be more likely to seek out the opinion of a few who I know well (like Geoff) if I need an outside view.

 

[Ivy]

Geoff, I agree. My sensor sister is one of the smartest, funniest, most spontaneous people I know. She could be ESFP or ESFJ.

 

[heart]

An INFJ would more likely attack this.. hmm.. conceptually - try and argue why they disagree with the typing, or instead just do a screw you, I am what I am approach. In reality I don't think many of them would be in a thread like this looking for the answer, because it is something they are likely to explore for themselves. The one INFJ I know really well (Eileen) is, I would say, much more likely to do this (the self involved reflection response). I doubt the social impact would be of great importance.

The only INFJ I know well is my husband and he wouldn't want to take time away from promoting his ideological "I have the answers to fix the world's social/political ills" posts to stop and ask what others think of him.

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

I never read you as an INFJ. Hopefully it doesn't come across as an insult to either you or INFJs, but you seem a lot more comfortable speaking your mind and rocking the boat when you want to. You also seem to have no qualms with busting on and messing with people (something that I admire by the way) which is something I haven't seen the INFJs in my life be as adept at. You are a lot more relaxed than I would usually see with the INFJs I have encountered anyway.

My $0.02

 

[Eileen]

Well as long as everyone realizes that I'm not an idiot then I won't take offense. Heavens knows if I were truly an ESFJ I'd be way more organized than I am and that includes keeping my family in check. right now I am struggling. I feel so scatter brained.

I don't necessarily commit to you being ESFJ, personally, but I must say that the ESFJ who I know super well (who happens to be kind of nutty and is not my favorite person, but I think that's because she's a crazy bitch--not because she's ESFJ) is not organized at all. She saves everything. EVERYTHING. Her classroom is a fire hazard. She does do a reasonably good job of keeping events/meetings/stuff like that organized, but woo. That classroom. Yikes.

ISFJs and ISTJs seem to me to be the most organized. Another lady from work (an awesome ISFJ) had the most immaculate classroom. It was like... she just always put everything back where it belonged when she was done with it. My brain doesn't do that!

 

[Haight]

Thread unlocked.