[Type 8] Type 8's and being gentle or some shit

[Azure Flame]

So what's it mean to show strength by being gentle?

I'm a gymnastics instructor and I've tried being gentle. shit doesn't work. You gotta tell that bitchass kid to pull his pants up, stop picking his nose, stfu and do a back hip circle or else I'm gonna tell his mom he's being a little faggot.

Ideas?

I'm hoping that if I pet him on the head or something he'll magically do what I want.

 

[mmhmm]

You gotta tell that bitchass kid to pull his pants up, stop picking his nose, stfu and do a back hip circle or else I'm gonna tell his mom he's being a little faggot.

you should take a video and show us.

 

[kyuuei]

To me, this term is easiest to understand when applied to anger.

Moreso that I am showing strength to my family/friends/whoever I care about by NOT being angry with them or acting the way I want to at times. Everyone knows that acting angry and yelling doesn't always get the results you really want.. sometimes you say the same shit in a different way, and everything comes together nicely. So, sometimes you have to be stronger than you really want to be and just learn how to buck up and do the 'adult thing' and treat the situation with grace. Especially if it is a situation where you don't particularly feel graceful.

 

[Amargith]

^

It's reigning in that power and anger, being aware of your size and force (be it physical or sheer personality) in order to protect and be careful with what/who is valuable.

Think about the care and gentleness the fiercest predators show their helpless newborns, despite all their claws, fangs and raw aggression

 

[Typh0n]

And sometimes, you just gotta tell the damn kids to stfu.

 

[miss fortune]

As anyone who's ever owned and loved one of the stereotypically "vicious" dog breeds can tell you, training and socialization can do a lot

 

[skylights]

There's the option of being both tough and gentle in terms of being strict about following the rules but being kind and trying to understand him and love him and work with him to develop his best self.

So sure, tell him to stfu, but also try to get in touch with his core motivation. Until you tap that it's going to be touch-and-go in terms of getting him to do things.

 

[Typh0n]

There's the option of being both tough and gentle in terms of being strict about following the rules but being kind and trying to understand him and love him and work with him to develop his best self.

So sure, tell him to stfu, but also try to get in touch with his core motivation. Until you tap that it's going to be touch-and-go in terms of getting him to do things.

In my teens I behaved like a total ass. It annoyed the hell out of people, and now, Im well behaved for the most part, but I see these kids in the street or public transportation behaving like animals, and it annoyes the crap out of me. I think the problem has nothing to do with these kids inner motivations, its just that noone ever tells them theyre a nuisance, their parents, their teachers, the cops etc do nothing and thats the gist of the problem.

 

[skylights]

In my teens I behaved like a total ass. It annoyed the hell out of people, and now, Im well behaved for the most part, but I see these kids in the street or public transportation behaving like animals, and it annoyes the crap out of me. I think the problem has nothing to do with these kids inner motivations, its just that noone ever tells them theyre a nuisance, their parents, their teachers, the cops etc do nothing and thats the gist of the problem.

I'm sure you're right in some cases, but I think there's a balance to be struck. I've worked and interned in recreational therapy and guidance counseling with kids, and while many need structure and boundaries, there's also often a bad combination of no behavior management plus no positive encouragement - people figuring that not be harsh on the kids is enough to inspire them to grow positively. Around here, there has been a lot of cracking down on behavior at schools by administration, with lots of authority figures telling kids they're a nuisance, and the kids feeling a lot of pressure and negativity and not a lot of reward or support. That sort of system doesn't make anyone want to behave well. There's an old phrase about using both the carrot and the stick - it's commonly used in reference to politics, but I think it's applicable here. If you just use the stick, the mule has no motivation besides punishment. Provide a carrot too, and you're providing a reason to move forwards as well as a reason not to move back.

I think it's important to pull back and look at the bigger picture. If you're an instructor, one of your goals is to teach the kid a particular move, sure. But ultimately, it's more important to have a happy, motivated, well-behaved kid than a kid that can do a backflip. Maybe in the moment you do need to tell him to shut his mouth and get down to business. But that's not going to work every time, and it's not going to work for long before the kid gets pissed. Encourage him that it's his dream to become a breakdancer and this will help get him there, and he will want to do what you want him to do. It's the art of getting someone else on your side by assessing how things can be mutually beneficial.

After all, what's the point of being hard on a kid if he's miserable and ends up dropping out? You'll ruin the whole point of the endeavor. I seem to remember that being a struggle for 8s. The 8 will voice something like "I'm doing this for the family", but the family is miserable, having been alienated by the hardness the 8 has developed in trying to protect their family. The "gentle" comes in when you reconnect with the softer side that knows how to collaborate with others.

That's just my theorizing, anyway.

 

[Typh0n]

I'm sure you're right in some cases, but I think there's a balance to be struck. I've worked and interned in recreational therapy and guidance counseling with kids, and while many need structure and boundaries, there's also often a bad combination of no behavior management plus no positive encouragement - people figuring that not be harsh on the kids is enough to inspire them to grow positively. Around here, there has been a lot of cracking down on behavior at schools by administration, with lots of authority figures telling kids they're a nuisance, and the kids feeling a lot of pressure and negativity and not a lot of reward or support. That sort of system doesn't make anyone want to behave well. There's an old phrase about using both the carrot and the stick - it's commonly used in reference to politics, but I think it's applicable here. If you just use the stick, the mule has no motivation besides punishment. Provide a carrot too, and you're providing a reason to move forwards as well as a reason not to move back.

I think it's important to pull back and look at the bigger picture. If you're an instructor, one of your goals is to teach the kid a particular move, sure. But ultimately, it's more important to have a happy, motivated, well-behaved kid than a kid that can do a backflip. Maybe in the moment you do need to tell him to shut his mouth and get down to business. But that's not going to work every time, and it's not going to work for long before the kid gets pissed. Encourage him that it's his dream to become a breakdancer and this will help get him there, and he will want to do what you want him to do. It's the art of getting someone else on your side by assessing how things can be mutually beneficial.

After all, what's the point of being hard on a kid if he's miserable and ends up dropping out? You'll ruin the whole point of the endeavor. I seem to remember that being a struggle for 8s. The 8 will voice something like "I'm doing this for the family", but the family is miserable, having been alienated by the hardness the 8 has developed in trying to protect their family. The "gentle" comes in when you reconnect with the softer side that knows how to collaborate with others.

That's just my theorizing, anyway.

I agree with the carrot and the stick arguement, but I think we're just talking about two different things.

 

[Lark]

 

[Azure Flame]

In my teens I behaved like a total ass. It annoyed the hell out of people, and now, Im well behaved for the most part, but I see these kids in the street or public transportation behaving like animals, and it annoyes the crap out of me. I think the problem has nothing to do with these kids inner motivations, its just that noone ever tells them theyre a nuisance, their parents, their teachers, the cops etc do nothing and thats the gist of the problem.

I actually didn't realize I was so obnoxious until I had an enfp explain to me, "you are completely ruining the tranquility of this chatroom and its abrasive and obnoxious." After that I was like, "... oh... very well I'll stop then."

Ok so I guess the gentleness they're describing is, the ability to control yourself and moderate when given the chance to use excessive force. I also wonder if this has sexual importance as well. The ability to hold myself back and control myself is sexier than showing no control whatsoever.

In otherwords, the second I start yelling and screaming is the second I've lost.

I've recently inverted my approach to teaching the boys. I used to micromanage and tell each kid directly that what they were doing was wrong and they need to sit down etc. I've now realized they are all constantly competing for my attention, so when I say "I like how guss is sitting" they all immediately go down and sit down next to guss.


But I don't think this is relevant to being an 8. I think E8 has more to do with, "I could scream at you right now but I choose not to."

 

[Amargith]

Think of a stallion cooperating with his rider, instead of obstinately refusing to be saddled at all. The amount of showing off, power, beauty and elegance coming off of them when they put their mind to doing the work is...

Very different from their belligerence

 

[rav3n]

Firstly, gauge by individual kid. Use MBTI. If they're STPs, they'll probably respond to your form of abuse.

 

[skylights]

Maybe the greatest manifestation of power is having the ability and the will not to use it.

 

[Amargith]

^

 

[Azure Flame]

this thread is making me wanna barf

 

[Entropic]

Learning to allow yourself to be vulnerable. It's that simple when it comes to type 8. The gentleness comes from that 8s deny their own sense of vulnerability, because deep down they feel very sensitive so they project this externally. This is innocence. The gentleness is shown when the 8 bothers to care about others because they see innocence that needs to be protected.

I for example think this is well-represented as a theme in the first Alien film where Ellen Ripley has to take the cat with her despite it possibly risking her own survival. The cat's just innocent and it doesn't deserve to die. Life's so cruel, she can't let it happen.

 

[CheshireCat]

I have an SJ and an SP, 5 and 6 years old. I've noticed, for the SP the best incentive for him is depravation. Taking away what he desires. In your case it is your attention/ approval. In school they use a behavior clip chart that seems of utmost importance to the kids >.> I've seen a boy crying because he had to move his clip from a green smiley face to a yellow one. How old are the kids you work with? .... My SJ is more often a non-issue... I found it helpful to read the descriptions of childhood patterns for MBTI types out of the book Please Understand me II.

You could always offer some sort of reward for exceptional pupils... Kids tend to be.... always requiring a lot of direction/ redirection. Have you considered an assistant?

 

[Thalassa]

I have an SJ and an SP, 5 and 6 years old. I've noticed, for the SP the best incentive for him is depravation. Taking away what he desires.

That is exactly how I was disciplined, and it drove me NUTS.

I would agree that works like a charm.