Toxic Feminism

[Coriolis]

Feminism is garbage because it gave women rights they didn't earn and used the government to force men to pay taxes and redistribute their wealth to the state and women. In short feminism which is a masquerade of Marxism is very destructive to societies and is destroying the west at this very moment.

I don't recall men earning those rights either. As [MENTION=29849]Yuu[/MENTION] mentioned, they are inherent. Compelling justificiation is required to remove or curtail them. Also, men have been paying taxes long before feminism appeared on the scene. One of the gains of feminism is to open up workplaces to women, so now they can pay their share of taxes, too.

Very few people want to "dominate" women. We just want to keep the money we earned without having to distribute it through a third party.

And women want the right to earn money themselves, without being dependent for it on the goodwill of men, many of whom don't have their best interests at heart. See also the comment above.

I see you learned nothing during your "vacation" from the forum. It is not surprising that history is repeating itself.

 

[Tomb1]

Even if that was true was I advocating for that?

Not to my knowledge but let's stay on point....cite evidence backing up your assumption that most women entering the business are 18 and over.

 

[jixmixfix]

Not to my knowledge but let's stay on point....cite evidence backing up your assumption that most women entering the business are 18 and over.

If you consider porn to be prostitution and simply look at the amount of porn out there you can easily come to conclusion that the majority of prostitutes overall is over 18. Use some logic and reason not just stats.

 

[Tomb1]

If you consider porn to be prostitution and simply look at the amount of porn out there you can easily come to conclusion that the majority of prostitutes overall is over 18. Use some logic and reason not just stats.

Oh I see, you were just making a blanket assertion...it was your personal feeling that most women entering the prostitution business are 18 and over.

your reasoning also contains an association fallacy.

 

[jixmixfix]

Oh I see, you were just making a blanket assertion...it was your personal feeling that most women entering the prostitution business are 18 and over. your reasoning also contains an association fallacy.

it's called logical deduction and not blindly following stats like you just did.Your stats are most likely talking about street solicitation but there are other forms of prostitution that exist such as pornography, brothels, massage parlors etc. If you think that the average age is 14 in this areas you clearly have no idea what your talking about.

 

[Starry]

Feminism is garbage because it gave women rights they didn't earn and used the government to force men to pay taxes and redistribute their wealth to the state and women. In short feminism which is a masquerade of Marxism is very destructive to societies and is destroying the west at this very moment.

Even though our views are seemingly very different...I hope you've had enough exchanges with me to know that I'll be on the level with you. If I say that I'm seeking understanding then you can count on the fact that that is what I am truly doing. I'm not here to try and convince you of anything...I'm not big on judgment in the first place (no one knows another person's experience and why they think and feel the way they do)...but I have suspended mine for the time-being because I'd like to understand where you're coming from.


What rights do you believe women are enjoying without having earned them? And did other groups earn them? For example, did black men earn these rights legitimately whereas women did not?

And how do you feel things should be different? What do you believe women should and should not be doing?

 

[jixmixfix]

Even though our views are seemingly very different...I hope you've had enough exchanges with me to know that I'll be on the level with you. If I say that I'm seeking understanding then you can count on the fact that that is what I am truly doing. I'm not here to try and convince you of anything...I'm not big on judgment in the first place (no one knows another person's experience and why they think and feel the way they do)...but I have suspended mine for the time-being because I'd like to understand where you're coming from.


What rights do you believe women are enjoying without having earned them? And did other groups earn them? For example, did black men earn these rights legitimately whereas women did not?

And how do you feel things should be different? What do you believe women should and should not be doing?

Starting from the early days of feminism 1st wave and so forth the right to vote was given to women without the responsibility of having the draft. So automatically women were treated as more valuable to society than men. They were given privileges without having to deal with the same kind of responsibilities. In terms of black men when they were given the right to vote they were still subject to the draft. The ability for women to vote created a snowball effect since women tend to vote for more liberal/socialist government, the welfare state was then created which allowed for even bigger government to form. Other groups such as the black community are heavily affected by the welfare state, for example the rise of single fatherhood in blacks is a direct result of government granting funds to single mothers. Back in the early 1900's if a women was a single mother it would be a detriment to her health and the health of her child which is why marriages remained far more stable than they are today. Today marriage is a joke, family courts will automatically grant women full child custody especially if she claimed to be abused by her spouse with little to no evidence needed.

 

[Tomb1]

it's called logical deduction and not blindly following stats like you just did.Your stats are most likely talking about street solicitation but there are other forms of prostitution that exist such as pornography, brothels, massage parlors etc. If you think that the average age is 14 in this areas you clearly have no idea what your talking about.

That sounds like a red herring to me [Formal logic does not equal empirical data imo].

I simply asked that you cite evidence backing up your assumption that most women who enter the business are 18 and over...evidence as in, ya know, empirical data.

It's a blanket assertion to the extent you have none.

 

[jixmixfix]

That sounds like a red herring to me [Formal logic does not equal empirical data imo].

I simply asked that you cite evidence backing up your assumption that most women who enter the business are 18 and over...evidence as in, ya know, empirical data.

You clearly didn't read a word I said, like talking to a brick wall i guess you just want to see some anonymous statistic so you can see if I can google well.Deep Inside: A Study of 10,000 Porn Stars It's funny how statistic brain has no empirical data either on how their stats were conducted, the demographic and country it was conducted in.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Interesting perspective from feminist Julie Bindel

Feminism is in danger of becoming toxic | Julie Bindel | Opinion | The Guardian

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

William Shatner takes on feminists for dismissing misandry, promoting 'toxic masculinity'

Rather than reconsidering the wisdom of terms like "toxic masculinity" or their own reflexive dismissal of the possibility that misandry might exist, feminists lash out at anyone who dares to question their doctrine — even when they're sympathetic to the cause.

When people such as Shatner (who endorsed Hillary Clinton as early as 2014) offer reasonable perspectives that push back against radical tenets of feminism, they're called sexist and treated as enemies of women.

That's no way to convince skeptical Americans that the real definition of a feminist is someone who believes in the fundamental equality of men and women. The definition of a feminist that the movement itself actually endorses necessitates a person embrace concepts like toxic masculinity and intersectionality.

To build a broader movement, feminists should start by accepting the criticism of sympathetic observers instead of slamming them as sexist.

 

[Tomb1]

You clearly didn't read a word I said, like talking to a brick wall i guess you just want to see some anonymous statistic so you can see if I can google well.Deep Inside: A Study of 10,000 Porn Stars It's funny how statistic brain has no empirical data either on how their stats were conducted, the demographic and country it was conducted in.

I read what you said....the "Deep Inside" article is another red herring because your assertion was about the average age women enter the prostitution business.

Although prostitution and pornography have similarities, what's empirically accurate for one may not be accurate for another. i.e. the Fallacy of Association.

So you are disputing the prostitution statistics?

 

[FemMecha]

Personally I'm against the draft for any member of a society. There are a lot of mental and physical conditions for either gender that do not prohibit voting, but do exclude them from military service. This includes any man age 26 and older. I would not say these people have not earned the right to vote because they could not historically be drafted. It is also worth noting that the last man was drafted in 1973, after which the U.S. converted to al all volunteer military. If that remains the case, then the draft is a moot point for voting rights in present day society.

If there needs to be equality for both genders to register with the armed forces at age 18, I would support that for consistency, but I prefer to be against the concept of a military draft for any member of society.

 

[jixmixfix]

I read what you said....the "Deep Inside" article is another red herring because the discussion is about the average age women enter the prostitution business.

Although they have similarities, what's empirically accurate for one may not be accurate for another. i.e. the Fallacy of Association.

So you are disputing the prostitution statistics?

claiming something is a fallacy doesn't automatically disprove a point you need to give evidence for it by the way, I understand you took some critical thinking courses in college and want to look intellectual but pointing out fallacies does not constitute as a proper counter argument. There is actually no source that was given for your 14 year old stats, no scope of data or what data was taken when it was taken and what resources conducted the data etc I.e Your source is pretty horrible similar to the 1 and 4 women in college that get raped stat.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

That sounds like a red herring to me [Formal logic does not equal empirical data imo].

I simply asked that you cite evidence backing up your assumption that most women who enter the business are 18 and over...evidence as in, ya know, empirical data.

It's a blanket assertion to the extent you have none.

The Vice cops I spoke with say about 50% are trafficked prostitutes. A lot of those trafficked are illegals who respond to ads for work, etc. Signs on the side of the road. Call this number for a job sort of thing. They disappear quickly. Force them drugs. Abused. It's not hard to break people.

Buyer cannot tell and really, would any John? Nope. It's not really important. Getting off is the point. So good luck with getting a John with a heart of gold who asks for references. They simply don't care and they have their own rationalizations, and mental problems.

The issue is complex. It's not even or should not be just a feminist issue. It's a human rights issue.

 

[Tomb1]

claiming something is a fallacy doesn't automatically disprove a point you need to give evidence for it by the way. There is actually no source that was given for your 14 year old stats, no scope of data or what data was taken when it was taken. etc I.e Your source is pretty horrible.

The association fallacy invalidates the logical coherence of your argument because it shows that, as usual, your reasoning was illogical.

It's not at all on point for your blanket assertion that the age of entry for females in the prostitution business is 18 and over.

Statisticbrain features a portion at the bottom for sources, which includes the Department of Health and Delancey Street Foundation.

In the chart, it also specifies that the 14 year old stat is specific to female prostitutes in the US.

 

[Tomb1]

This 258 page research study put out by the University of Pennsylvania back in 2001 concluded the average age of entry for females is 12-14

"The Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children In The U. S., Canada and Mexico."

Multiple samples were drawn, from both national and sub-national units, some of which comprised traditional random samples and others of which comprised convenience, or purposive, samples. Multiple levels of information were collected that address the variety of conceptual rungs that shape the CSEC (e.g., individual, family, community, social/economic/political structure, culture), and, accordingly, this information was compiled and examined in both individual and aggregate formats. These levels are described in detail in Appendix L." (page 15)

This study also concluded that poverty was not the sole driver.

"Poverty is the most frequently cited explanation for the involvement of large numbers of children in sexually exploitative behavior (Azaola, 2001a; Boye, 1996; Longford, 1995; Mayombo, 1998; Save the Children, 1996; Shamim, 1993).2 But as suggested by the ECU, poverty alone does not account for the large number of children under the age of 16 years being recruited into the sex industry, especially in rich countries such as the U.S. and Canada (Dionne, 2001; Estes & Weiner, 2001; Tremblay, 2001)." (page 3)

City-level research has been done and comes to similar results. In Atlanta, this 2009 study funded by the Dept. of Justice found that the average age of entry in Atlanta was 14.

This 2008 study funded by the Dept. of Justice, found the average age of entry in NYC is 15.

The Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children in New York City

 

[jixmixfix]

The association fallacy invalidates the logical coherence of your argument because it shows that, as usual, your reasoning was illogical.

It's not at all on point for your blanket assertion that the age of entry for females in the prostitution business is 18 and over.

Statisticbrain features a portion at the bottom for sources, which includes the Department of Health and Delancey Street Foundation.

In the chart, it also specifies that the 14 year old stat is specific to female prostitutes in the US.

Why does the association fallacy show that as usual my reasoning was illogical? The age of entry for prostitution includes women in porn and women who work at brothels, massage parlors etc Do your stats refute this? nope they just show average age of entry and most likely average age of entry on the street/trafficking since both pornography, brothels and massage parlors are regulated aka you need to be 18 years old. This is why you need to understand what people are trying to say before you start throwing the fallacy fallacy card get it right the first time instead of wasting my time.

"Finding customers: Almost three-quarters of the youth (approximately 70%) found
customers on the streets. Only 37% said that they always or sometimes worked the
³tracks´ (specific streets or corners known for prostitution). Especially in Manhattan,
working the streets was often coupled with trolling the internet or using a cell phone
network to reach clients. How youth found their customers often varied on how long they
had been in ³the life´, their access to the internet and cell phones, and the size and reach
of their CSEC peer networks.
· Where youth go with customers: The places where youth went with customers were
extremely varied; more than half (51%) said that they went to customers¶ apartments and
almost half (45%) said that they used hotels throughout the city."

 

[A Demonic Lover]

You sure post a lot about Feminism.

 

[Tomb1]

Why does the association fallacy show that as usual my reasoning was illogical?

See my response in post #359, second line.

I mentioned a couple of red herrings, too. I could have pointed out more fallacies

The age of entry for prostitution includes women in porn and women who work at brothels, massage parlors etc Do your stats refute this? nope they just show average age of entry and most likely average age of entry on the street/trafficking since both pornography, brothels and massage parlors are regulated aka you need to be 18 years old.

Your statement specifically referenced prostitution. I never asked you to cite evidence for anything have to do with pornography. Nice strawman.

This is why you need to understand what people are trying to say before you start throwing the fallacy fallacy card get it right the first time instead of wasting my time.

i did give you a chance to cite some evidence for your assumption that most women enter prostitution at 18 or older. Maybe it would have been a different outcome had you found some specific evidence to back your blanket assertion up with.