Toxic Feminism

[jixmixfix]

See my response in post #359, second line.

I mentioned a couple of red herrings, too. I could have pointed out more fallacies



Your statement specifically referenced prostitution. I never asked you to cite evidence for anything have to do with pornography. Nice strawman.



i did give you a chance to cite some evidence for your assumption that most women enter prostitution at 18 or older. Maybe it would have been a different outcome had you found some specific evidence to back your blanket assertion up with.

Doesn't matter what you asked me to site my initial statement included pornography while your siting include only street prostitution/trafficking which is not compatible and thus false.

 

[Tomb1]

Doesn't matter what you asked me to site my initial statement included pornography while your siting include only street prostitution/trafficking which is not compatible and thus false.

Pornography was nowhere mentioned....you were responding to Mole's point about prostitution.

Mole had said in post 335: “Most women who enter prostitution do so because they are forced to because of financial pressure, drug pressure, because of sexual abuse, because they have been trafficked, their passports taken away, and with no way of escape.”

You replied in post 336: "Not true at all at least so in the west if you look at the opportunity women are given most women who enter the business are consenting adults, they do it because it's the easy route and they are good looking however they given ample opportunity to do otherwise."

Nice try.

 

[jixmixfix]

Pornography was nowhere mentioned.

Mole had said in post 335: “Most women who enter prostitution do so because they are forced to because of financial pressure, drug pressure, because of sexual abuse, because they have been trafficked, their passports taken away, and with no way of escape.”

You immediately replied in post 336: "Not true at all at least so in the west if you look at the opportunity women are given most women who enter the business are consenting adults, they do it because it's the easy route and they are good looking however they given ample opportunity to do otherwise."

Nice try.

Pornography is a form of prostitution.
Nice try.

 

[Tomb1]

Pornography is a form of prostitution.
Nice try.

Fallacy of equivocation.

You two were talking about prostitution....prostitution is a distinct business from the business of pornography.

although prostitution is part of the sex industry, like pornography, they are not one and the same.

So even if you really think that, even a liberal reading of your exchange doesn't back up your assertion that you were also referring to the business of pornography.

It would be like making assertions about the MMA business...I'm not referring to any empirical data about those in the business of boxing.

Try again.

 

[jixmixfix]

Fallacy of equivocation. You two were talking about prostitution....prostitution is a distinct business from the business of pornography. although prostitution is part of the sex industry, like pornography, they are not one and the same. So even if you really think that, even a liberal reading of your exchange doesn't back up your assertion that you were referring to the business of pornography. It would be like making assertions about the MMA business...I'm not referring to any empirical data about those in the business of boxing.

No prostitution comes in different forms, one being pornography other being street/ trafficking I clarified this to you later on but you had such an urge to one up me that you posted stats on street socliciation/trafficking trying to disprove my point. Boxing isn't mma but mma is apart of boxing. Prostitution isn't pornography but pornography is apart of prostituition.

 

[Tomb1]

No prostitution comes in different forms, one being pornography other being street/ trafficking I clarified this to you later on but you had such an urge to one up me that you posted stats on street socliciation/trafficking trying to disprove my point. Boxing isn't mma but mma is apart of boxing. Prostitution isn't pornography but pornography is apart of prostituition.

That's a highly subjective reframing of reality. In reality, the business of prostitution is distinctly different from the business of pornography. A prostitute is not an adult entertainment actress and an adult entertainment actress is not a prostitute. You are equivocating terms. Your position is as untenable as if you had said, "the average salary is 50,000 in the business of MMA" and me showing you statistics that show MMA fighters average 30,000 grand a year. And then you replying that those stats don't take into account the salaries of boxers as well. lol

 

[jixmixfix]

No it would be like you asking for an average fighters salary. nice try.

 

[Tomb1]

No it would be like you asking for an average fighters salary. nice try.

Asking for an average fighter's salary is comparable to asking for the average salary of a person in the sex industry, not the prostitution business.

Strike three.

 

[Lark]

Is Feminism the only ideology that people debate about becoming toxic?

 

[Jaguar]

I think this fucking thread is toxic.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[Coriolis]

Is Feminism the only ideology that people debate about becoming toxic?

It is the only ideology that certain segments of society fear enough to do all they can to vilify. I suppose communism would be the runner up.

Personally I'm against the draft for any member of a society. There are a lot of mental and physical conditions for either gender that do not prohibit voting, but do exclude them from military service. This includes any man age 26 and older. I would not say these people have not earned the right to vote because they could not historically be drafted. It is also worth noting that the last man was drafted in 1973, after which the U.S. converted to al all volunteer military. If that remains the case, then the draft is a moot point for voting rights in present day society.

If there needs to be equality for both genders to register with the armed forces at age 18, I would support that for consistency, but I prefer to be against the concept of a military draft for any member of society.

I'm all for universal service, military and otherwise. Still, men never risked their lives in childbirth, so I would call that even. Now that I think of it: this means men risk their lives to take life, women to give it. Seems women come out ahead by this reckoning.

 

[Mole]

It is the only ideology that certain segments of society fear enough to do all they can to vilify. I suppose communism would be the runner up.

Over a 70 year period, across the world, International Communism took 100 million lives of their own people, not the enemy, just their own people. This is accurately and fairly documented by a group of French left wing historians in The Black Book of Communism, click on http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/books/THE BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM.pdf . Feminism is a completely different movement.

 

[Coriolis]

Over a 70 year period, across the world, International Communism took 100 million lives of their own people, not the enemy, just their own people. This is accurately and fairly documented by a group of French left wing historians in The Black Book of Communism, click on http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/books/THE BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM.pdf . Feminism is a completely different movement.

Assuming your statistics are accurate, this suggests communism at least has earned its vilification.

 

[Mole]

Assuming your statistics are accurate, this suggests communism at least has earned its vilification.

Yes, it certainly has. For instance, National Socialism took 12 million lives of their own people, including 6 million Jews, over 7 years, while International Communism took 100 million lives of their own people across the world in 70 years. This is very roughly the same number of lives for each per year. So they have certainly earned their vilification.

 

[anticlimatic]

Yes, it certainly has. For instance, National Socialism took 12 million lives of their own people, including 6 million Jews, over 7 years, while International Communism took 100 million lives of their own people across the world in 70 years. This is very roughly the same number of lives for each per year. So they have certainly earned their vilification.

Feminism is more like a religious ideology than a political one, and people talk about toxic Christianity/Islam all the time as well for pretty much the exact same reasons.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

People can go overboard with feminism thinking all men are bad, but I think a lot a more de facto approach is needed now. Maybe even a less in your face approach as well.

 

[jixmixfix]

Hint: There is little difference between socialism and communism.....and feminism is just another manifistation of both.

 

[Starry]

Thanks for the response [MENTION=7278]jixmixfix[/MENTION]

Starting from the early days of feminism 1st wave and so forth the right to vote was given to women without the responsibility of having the draft. So automatically women were treated as more valuable to society than men. They were given privileges without having to deal with the same kind of responsibilities.

^^I had to sit with this for quite a while in order to see it from the perspective of all the men that share (what I understand of) your ideology. And I really had to bend and twist just to catch that glimpse as your account of the history in this regard flies counter to my understanding...not once or twice...but literally at every turn. These histories...Women and Politics/Military are resistant to alteration as we have so much on record...52 years worth from Petition to Amendment of yays and nays and official statements on suffrage alone from our political leaders of the time... And while *value* is surely a relative concept..."intellectually incapable of being a full citizen...inferior to men...irrational...useless in a crisis/outside of the home" are not part of what immediately comes into my mind (obviously not all Congressmen went on record saying such things...and there was in fact a member of the British Parliament that did make mention of some sort of elevated, mythical status of women in his argument for why they needed to be protected and not part of the military.)

Still, I forget myself...having fallen victim to the assumption that what I value is shared by most. And I needed you to help snap me out of that. Perhaps even today... a women that is not "intellectually capable of being a full citizen" is perceived as having more value.

((And I'm not trying to be shitty with what I wrote above but rather realistic. Your "treated like they have a higher value"...will actually be my "treated like a worthless idiot" you see? I will say though that Feminists should not be blamed for the inequality surrounding the draft...as it was/is feminists that fought like hell merely to be allowed to voluntarily enlist. Not being included in the draft is evidence of the inequality which...to some people's apparent surprise (?)...feminism is attempting to eradicate. Of feminists there are two schools of thought... Feminists that insist women should be part of the draft. And Feminists that insist no one...male or female...should be drafted. Any man or woman that says 'men should be drafted but due to their higher value women should not' <-is not a feminist.))

The ability for women to vote created a snowball effect since women tend to vote for more liberal/socialist government, the welfare state was then created which allowed for even bigger government to form. Other groups such as the black community are heavily affected by the welfare state, for example the rise of single fatherhood in blacks is a direct result of government granting funds to single mothers. Back in the early 1900's if a women was a single mother it would be a detriment to her health and the health of her child which is why marriages remained far more stable than they are today. Today marriage is a joke, family courts will automatically grant women full child custody especially if she claimed to be abused by her spouse with little to no evidence needed.

^^This I'm not sure of but I don't claim to be an expert on all things and am currently suspending judgment.


Let's say you are right though...what needs to be done about it in your opinion? I mean, there are transitions with extremely painful growing pains...and then there are runaway trains headed for disaster.

You and a small handful of emotional men on this forum keep squealing that we are headed for disaster but not once have I seen meaningful commentary on what it is that needs to be done. And so I keep asking...


What needs to be done? What role should women play in the doing?

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Man, this thread is on fire.

I quite enjoy my ability to partake in the voting process, and to have my voice heard, politically... Would like to point out that prior to suffrage, women were still involved in politics behind the scenes in democracies like the U.S., and governed as monarchs over entire countries, i.e. Queen Elizabeth I... Or even commanded armies of men like Jeanne d'Arc. Just sayin'.

But it's come to my attention in the last few years or so that there is in fact a growing, noisy contingent, who demand that women fit a certain, very exact criteria in order to be deemed "worthy" of the label of feminist. They are often very privileged, highly-educated women who never had to struggle for anything in their lives and actually look down their noses at most women who are not like them in every respect.

I refer to myself a "feminist" in the vein of Ariel Levy. I'm of the equity variety; I am a humanist first and foremost. I believe in human rights. These include the rights of women, in both their careers and in their personal lives. I am especially drawn to the plight of blue-collar women in industries that are male-dominated. I am interested in women being afforded the same treatment in school, the workplace, and in our society in general.

I abhor rape and sexual harassment (no, I'm not talking about this fake sexual harassment whereby a woman is whistled at or called "baby" in the street). I am against women's bodies being used as commodities, to sell products that have nothing to do with women. I am staunchly against human trafficking.

That is why I am a feminist.