oh lord.
It's very much been implied by many posters continually contrasting tough love with the overly nice huggy parent who doesn't discipline, as if that's the only alternative. The arrow was meant to point up at skylights post concerning wanting tough love or comforting [...] There's a middle ground.
i just wanted to offer a perspective from a life that is on a vastly different page of things. i'm not trying to separate into binaries, i'm not trying to make things black-and-white, i'm not trying to shoot down the OP. i'm saying that, from my perspective, "tough love" -
not abuse,
not psychological trauma - but solid boundaries -
can be a good thing.
i'm a camp counselor in the summers, and i'm surrounded by kids who are overprotected. they hit the ground, you'd think it was the end of the world. screaming, crying, wanting someone to hold them, etc. screaming, crying, etc. when they don't get what they want. i love these kids, but holy crap. what i'm watching is so totally different from what's been talked about here so far. i've also come from a family situation with two very overprotective parents (whom i love endlessly - but) i see the negative effects in both myself and my sibling. i wouldn't call us spoiled, but i see other insidious effects - having problems with self-motivation, independence, confronting problems, interaction in close relationships.
and of course there is a middle ground. and of course there are other perspectives. i'm a Ne dom, give me a break, my mind is suspended in 6 gajillion pieces somewhere in the ether. i don't know why
you're trying to belittle my - and others' - perspectives by calling them black and white.
It trivializes those things because it implies they are not strong & powerful. That only being tough, harsh, rigid, demanding, is what accomplishes anything, and that this is what the world is & will always be. It's a lack of faith of the parent in love, one they are passing down to their child.
All of the things you mention here can be done without harshness or sternness (to use your quoted definition of tough love). You can let your child know all of those things while still being mild & understanding in your approach. How can you help a child overcome fear if you don't understand where it's even coming from? To just push them without knowing where the crack in their armor seems almost irresponsible to me.
if i quoted someone's definition of harshness and sternness, that's not
my definition of tough love. why would i not want to understand where a child is coming from? where are you getting this bizarre image of not ever speaking to a child, comforting a child, etc.? i'm just a fan of parents stepping back sometimes, and letting natural consequences run their course. and
then coming to the child's aid. of not stopping the child before they can do something.
for instance - yes of course you should tell a child not to touch the hot stove, it'd be irresponsible not to try to teach them that. but if they're showing obvious resistance to your guidance as a parent and really want to touch that stove, do you run over to pick them up and scoop them away, or just let them touch it? me, i'd let them touch it. i don't want any child to suffer, but i don't think hurting a little bit is that big of a deal. and that naturally reinforces why you don't touch a stove. it's "tough" because you're just letting nature run its course, and nature's not always very nice. but that choice has no bearing on my love for a child. i would let them touch it
because i love them and want them to understand for themselves. and i would certainly hold them if they're crying, and bandage up their burn, and try to distract them from the hurt with happier things. and i would obviously try to get to the bottom of why they're feeling rebellious and what they really need deep down. i don't know why that assumption isn't there, in the NF idyllic of all places. an NF parent not wanting to deeply understand their child? an NF parent
trivializing love? i generally steer clear of keirsey temperament stereotypes but i'm gonna go ahead and jump on this one and say that it's really hard for me to image
any NF who takes the idea of love lightly.
oh, but
that's the difference, as far as i'm understanding it right now, between my perspective on "tough love" and those of members who have a more negative viewpoint on it. i am
not for
aggressively "tough" parenting. i do not think children should be berated, yelled at, forced into things, handled roughly, cursed at, insulted, or anything like that. but i also don't think children should be free from being criticized, receiving consequences, moving past their comfort zone, having to act independently, or following through. it's like the difference between aggressive and assertive... aggression hurts a child... but not being assertive is not good either, because then there are no boundaries... you don't push a child's hand onto the stove to teach them to not touch it, that'd be awful... but at the same time, if they really want to touch it... well... you could just let them.
i can't remember where i read it, but there was this kinda-cheesy chain letter sent around a while ago that kind of expresses my take on things...
aha
Lee Pitts said:
What I'd Like For My Grandchildren
We tried so hard to make things better for our kids that we made them worse. For my grandchildren, I'd like better:
I'd really like for them to know about hand-me-down clothes and homemade ice cream and leftover meat loaf sandwiches.
I hope you learn humility by being humiliated, and that you learn honesty by being cheated.
I hope you learn to make your own bed and mow the lawn and wash the car.
And I really hope nobody gives you a brand new car when you are sixteen.
It will be good if at least one time you can see puppies born and your old dog put to sleep.
I hope you get a black eye fighting for something you believe in.
I hope you have to share a bedroom with your younger brother. And it's all right if you have to draw a line down the middle of the room, but when he wants to crawl under the covers with you because he's scared, I hope you let him.
When you want to see a movie and your little brother wants to tag along, I hope you'll let him.
I hope you have to walk uphill to school with your friends and that you live in a town where you can do it safely.
On rainy days when you have to catch a ride, I hope you don't ask your driver to drop you two blocks away so you won't be seen riding with someone as uncool as your Mom.
If you want a slingshot, I hope your Dad teaches you how to make one instead of buying one.
I hope you learn to dig in the dirt and read books.
When you learn to use computers, I hope you also learn to add and subtract in your head.
I hope you get teased by your friends when you have your first crush on a girl, and when you talk back to your mother that you learn what ivory soap tastes like.
May you skin your knee climbing a mountain, burn your hand on a stove and stick your tongue on a frozen flagpole.
I don't care if you try a beer once, but I hope you don't like it. And if a friend offers you dope or a joint, I hope you realize he is not your friend.
I sure hope you make time to sit on a porch with your Grandpa and go fishing with your Uncle.
May you feel sorrow at a funeral and joy during the holidays.
I hope your mother punishes you when you throw a baseball through your neighbor's window and that she hugs you and kisses you at Christmastime when you give her a plaster mold of your hand.
These things I wish for you - tough times and disappointment, hard work and happiness. To me, it's the only way to appreciate life.
Written with a pen. Sealed with a kiss.
haha, i remember this girl in my elementary school... i was in 4th grade on a hiking trip with the girl scouts... this one chick wore a new outfit and a hairbow and her perfectly white shoes... and she didn't want to walk because she might get dirt on her clothes... and then when her shoelace came undone, she demanded for my dad (who was chaperoning) to tie it - like literally
commanded him to tie it... and when he told her she needed to take care of it herself, we found out that she
couldn't because her mom always tied her shoes so her fingers wouldn't get dirty...
And again, why one or the other?
dude, because you're turning it into a freaking binary. i'm just trying to give another perspective... you think i'm saying black and white, to me it was like, you have yellow, here's blue. blue is different because it's darker and cooler and etc. there's red too though. and a bazillion more colors. just cause i didn't mention other cases doesn't mean they don't exist... i'm just focusing on the general group that i've run into frequently in my own life... you are
the only person setting up a binary here.
i'm not addressing the rest. the only one who is having trouble getting beyond a bidirectional perspective is yourself. you came into the thread with that perspective and you've clearly read my posts through it. surprise, you're not the only one who recognizes that life is in full color. we just don't all feel the need to state (and harp) on the obvious.
wish there was an emoticon for "bristling"... ugh...