Ti, Te and "Systems"

[Stanton Moore]

OK, So I was thinking about how some Extraverted Thinkers on this forum seem to have a major problem with what the MBTI is, and I had a thought that I felt like sharing:

Extraverted Thinkers (being the Extraverted Thinkers they are) automatically think of systems as external rules and procedures to follow - and so some look at the MBTI and assume that this system is telling people how they should be acting. These are rules that are meant to "enlighten" people to the correct way they should be living their lives - what a horrible, soul-destroying thought that must be! INFPs must have it the worst - not only it is telling people how they should act, it's even assuming that it can categorise billions and billions of unique individuals into 16 categories of thought and behaviour!

Introverted Thinkers probably see it differently - this isn't telling you how you should be acting, it's an attempt at observing and describing an ongoing process. It's not an external ruleset, it's an internal ruleset - an attempt to understand what is being perceived. So the author isn't really telling you what to do and how to live, the author is telling what they've learned from observation - "the spectator sees more of the game" and all that.

Does this ring true at all? Or am I just talking bollocks?

INFP = INTROVERT.

dumbass

 

[BlueSprout]

INFP = INTROVERT.

dumbass

He didn't mean extraverts who are also Thinkers, but people who use extraverted thinking, like INFPs.

 

[Stanton Moore]

He didn't mean extraverts who are also Thinkers, but people who use extraverted thinking, like INFPs.

I still think he's a dumbass.

 

[StrappingYoungLad]

I still think he's a dumbass.

You can't think, you are a feeler.

 

[Stanton Moore]

You can't think, you are a feeler.

Ohhhh. Neither can you, You just 'sense' things. I bet you drive really, really well though.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I still think he's a dumbass.

I assure you that this judgment has my greatest sympathies, however, he was correct to point out that INFPs use Extroverted Thinking. An introverted temperament is defined by a dominant introverted function, however, this type can still include non-dominant Extroverted functions. Such as for example the fourth Te faculty of the IFP.

 

[Jaguar]

Just my opinion.

 

[simulatedworld]

INFP = INTROVERT.

dumbass

Wow, epic fail. INFPs are qualified as "extroverted Thinkers" because their preferred mode of Thinking is extroverted--they prefer Te over Ti.

Good job, dumbass.

 

[onemoretime]

I could have sworn someone once told me ENTPs were supposed to be funny.

You misheard that - it was "punny". We don't care if you find it amusing or not.

Besides, SW's in reality a highly defective INFP. Clear as day. See above.

 

[Jaguar]

Besides, SW's in reality a highly defective INFP. Clear as day. See above.

Actually, I think I'm up to a count of 56 times Sim has used the word, "value" in his posts when discussing the functions.
Perhaps he trolls INFPs to hide the fact he's INFP.

Hey Sim, show us your Fi. You know you want it.

 

[William K]

INFPs must have it the worst - not only it is telling people how they should act, it's even assuming that it can categorise billions and billions of unique individuals into 16 categories of thought and behaviour!

Wait.... You mean MBTI is not the M in RTFM???

 

[onemoretime]

Actually, I think I'm up to a count of 56 times Sim has used the word, "value" in his posts when discussing the functions.
Perhaps he trolls INFPs to hide the fact he's INFP.

Hey Sim, show us your Fi. You know you want it.

Dominant function. He doesn't "show" it, it pervades everything he does. However, in a spiral of incessant, ponderous self-loathing, it transforms itself into the shadow ENFJ, which can come across as a very obnoxious ENTP.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[VagrantFarce]

Yes, you are talking bollocks. But that's par for the course.

I still think he's a dumbass.

I assure you that this judgment has my greatest sympathies

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[Two Point Two]

To the OP:

I'm not sure about this. I don't think Te automatically takes systems to be normative. Te can be about systems of 'rules to follow', but it can also be about finding and acknowledging structure that's already there. Analysis isn't uniquely the domain of Ti.

That said, there may be some truth in it - for example, if someone thinks they're INFP but that they use a lot of Ni, and someone else tells them that they aren't using Ni because they're an INFP, or that it's unhealthy for them to do so and they should work on changing it, then I'd say that's a normative and inappropriate application of the system. But that's not a flaw in the system, it's a flaw in someone's use of it. But then, maybe this is a Te perspective and a Ti user can point out where I've gone wrong - I don't know.

 

[BlackCat]

Wow. Why the hell do simulatedworld and Jaguar shit up threads constantly? I think that this forum would be a better place if they didn't do that. Jaguar is obviously never going to answer him straight and will continue trolling him, and simulatedworld will obviously keep arguing just because it's a game to him.

 

[garbage]

Do not shit up some bad things in the threads, please, guys.. blackcat begs you

 

[Jaguar]

 

[bobby]

The degree to which it relates to reality is not a binary proposition. It's a matter of degree. It will never perfectly reflect reality and it will never cease to be under construction--it just gradually improves the more you learn. That's really all there is to it.

Some people fit the categories really easily and obviously; others are more difficult. The more people you meet the more you rearrange your ideas of the categories to encompass the different kinds of behaviors and value systems that you observe in others.

ok, so some bits will fit and others will not. are you comfortable with being mistaken every time the theory is off? wont you be drawing a number of false conclusions about people whose type you got wrong due to the deficiencies of the theory? it is not obvious to me that typing someone and altering your interaction with them accordingly yields a better result than leaving the typing undone, allowing for all possibilities

 

[simulatedworld]

Dominant function. He doesn't "show" it, it pervades everything he does. However, in a spiral of incessant, ponderous self-loathing, it transforms itself into the shadow ENFJ, which can come across as a very obnoxious ENTP.

Makes perfect sense.

Actually I'm really ISTJ, which transforms into shadow ESTP, which can look kind of like ESFJ when using tertiary Fe, which is somewhat similar to ESTJ, which has rather ENTJ tendencies, which can appear like its shadow INTP, which, due to traumatic childhood experiences forcing more extroversion than I was naturally comfortable with, makes me appear ENTP.

Here's the list of types I've been called by other forum members, if I recall correctly:

ENTP
INTP
ENTJ
ESFP
ESTP
ISTP
ESFJ
ENFP
INFP

Looks like I'm up to 9 now! Over half, sweet!

ok, so some bits will fit and others will not. are you comfortable with being mistaken every time the theory is off? wont you be drawing a number of false conclusions about people whose type you got wrong due to the deficiencies of the theory? it is not obvious to me that typing someone and altering your interaction with them accordingly yields a better result than leaving the typing undone, allowing for all possibilities

I simply assume whatever type the information I've received thus far seems to indicate, until I receive enough information to the contrary that I have to change that person's categorization. I've gotten good enough at quickly reevaluating (and noticing common tell-tale signs) that I can interact more effectively with people using this system than I can by completely ignoring it.

If you don't know what you're doing, that's probably not true for you. I realize that a lot of people simply don't need to categorize people this way in order to interact effectively, and that's fine. I don't insist that others use typology if it's not helpful to them.

 

[onemoretime]

Sorry. You're clearly a female INFJ who decided to see what being a dude was like. Since the ENTP is the compliment, it's clear that's the persona you decided to take.

I apologize for not realizing it before. Mea culpa.