Thoughts on my type version 2.0

[greenfairy]

I was just making a point that NFs can have NSA sex, one night stands, and FWB-style relationships.

My fwb is an INFP. I know for him though that his emotions are involved in a different way than mine are. I'm wondering about the fine points of the differences in the temperaments.

 

[Mal12345]

My fwb is an INFP. I know for him though that his emotions are involved in a different way than mine are. I'm wondering about the fine points of the differences in the temperaments.

You mean "functions," correct? Because they (INFP and INFJ) share the Idealist temperament style.

 

[SoraMayhem]

My fwb is an INFP. I know for him though that his emotions are involved in a different way than mine are. I'm wondering about the fine points of the differences in the temperaments.

Hmmm... can you elaborate on this any further?

 

[greenfairy]

The word "spiritual" really stands out here.

Which of these seven Jungian archetypes do you identify with most?

The hero: Rescuer, champion
The maiden: Purity, desire
The wise old man: Knowledge, guidance
The magician: Mysterious, powerful
The earth mother: Nature
The witch or sorceress: Dangerous
The trickster: Deceiving, hidden

http://changingminds.org/explanations/identity/jung_archetypes.htm

Hm, there aren't any further descriptions. As it is I can see myself in several.
Well, I can't find any more info from google searches.

Ok, all of them. Probably none more than the others.

 

[greenfairy]

You mean "functions," correct? Because they (INFP and INFJ) share the Idealist temperament style.

No I mean between NT and NF, or between INTP and INFP. Everything you read speaks in generalities, and there are so many. The generality that stands out to me is that NF's tend to be more emotionally involved or attached in the sexual area, or at least are more demonstrative. That's why I say the fine points, because it is all so general, this or that.

 

[Mal12345]

Hm, there aren't any further descriptions. As it is I can see myself in several.
Well, I can't find any more info from google searches.

Ok, all of them. Probably none more than the others.

Complexity is an INFJ trait. However, you did say you were a "witch" in a post a few pages back.

What am I dealing with here? A complex person suffering from self over-analysis, who lets the truth out (Truth is the goal here) and then denies it. And who is apparently chasing an ideal (as an Idealist should) that is a different type.

But if you read about Keirsey's Idealist type, you will find that is a trait of the Idealist. Not to pursue another type per se, but an ideal which, if attained, is no longer an ideal because it has been attained, when the asymptote has reached its goal at infinity.

 

[Mal12345]

No I mean between NT and NF, or between INTP and INFP. Everything you read speaks in generalities, and there are so many. The generality that stands out to me is that NF's tend to be more emotionally involved or attached in the sexual area, or at least are more demonstrative. That's why I say the fine points, because it is all so general, this or that.

None of that is relevant. To avoid becoming swamped in data you're looking at just one area. The Truth is your ideal which, once attained, is no longer an ideal. So find a way to declare that it's not the Truth. Sticking to your guns is an INFJ trait because you trust your intuitions more than anything. But intuitions are not a guide to Truth, at least not objectively.

 

[Mal12345]

Complexity is an INFJ trait. However, you did say you were a "witch" in a post a few pages back.

What am I dealing with here? A complex person suffering from self over-analysis, who lets the truth out (Truth is the goal here) and then denies it. And who is apparently chasing an ideal (as an Idealist should) that is a different type.

But if you read about Keirsey's Idealist type, you will find that is a trait of the Idealist. Not to pursue another type per se, but an ideal which, if attained, is no longer an ideal because it has been attained, when the asymptote has reached its goal at infinity.

Or one could say that the ideal is not the goal, but constantly pursuing the goal is the goal.

 

[greenfairy]

Hmmm... can you elaborate on this any further?

Hey I just noticed we're from the same state! Anyway.

Weeellll, if you want to know the full story:
We started out as friends and quickly realized our attraction for each other. We acted like a couple for about a month (although we were just friends with benefits, and that was fine with me), then kind of became more casual. My emotional involvement is just as us being good friends. If I have sex with someone I become close to them like we're in the same tribe and I am am now loyal to them, and concerned for his/her well being. Not like I have any commitment or possessive obligation, but loyalty as in I will defend him if he is threatened and support him as long as he supports me. This is I think because we have shared energy. Recently he started avoiding sleeping with me, and I was trying to get him to tell me why. I finally pinned him down and told him I thought I deserved an explanation and that not answering my questions looked like a lack of respect to me, and that he would lose me as a friend if he didn't. He told me he had sex with his ex and now he felt emotionally confused, and that to have sex with both of us felt somehow disloyal, and that he didn't want to tell me because he didn't know what to say and didn't want to say something stupid. I told him I wasn't mad at him for being with his ex, I just wanted communication and he could have just told me he was confused and would explain at a later date. This is because I have experienced this kind of thing in the past, where guys start ignoring me for no explained reason (so Si jumps to conclusions).

I can conclude from this that his emotions are tied with sex somehow. Mine definitely aren't. I have always wanted an open relationship, and had one for 8 and a half months. I don't know how this exactly corresponds to the different temperaments, but it says everywhere that INTP's value intimacy and tend to fall in love all the time and get emotionally attached, and INTP's are kind of detached and seem to just like the physical act itself. Generalities again, but what else do we have to go on.

 

[greenfairy]

Or one could say that the ideal is not the goal, but constantly pursuing the goal is the goal.

Sure, I could agree with that.

 

[greenfairy]

Complexity is an INFJ trait. However, you did say you were a "witch" in a post a few pages back.

What am I dealing with here? A complex person suffering from self over-analysis, who lets the truth out (Truth is the goal here) and then denies it. And who is apparently chasing an ideal (as an Idealist should) that is a different type.

But if you read about Keirsey's Idealist type, you will find that is a trait of the Idealist. Not to pursue another type per se, but an ideal which, if attained, is no longer an ideal because it has been attained, when the asymptote has reached its goal at infinity.

I don't understand, but interesting. It's still an ideal. It's just as a thing to strive for, a principle. Like if I value honesty in relationships, the ideal would be to be perfectly honest all the time. But that is unattainable and not reasonable or realistic. So as a principle, we change the goal to the best possible situation, which is the highest level of honesty which is appropriate and works in our particular circumstances, and just use honesty as a guiding principle.
When did I deny the truth? I think we were just talking about different things.

 

[Mal12345]

Sure, I could agree with that.

Many of the ideas you complained about as being too general are INTP or Ti ideas. SimulatedWorld is an ENTP which is Ti-aux. And yet you prefer to see yourself as an INTP or Ti.

 

[greenfairy]

None of that is relevant. To avoid becoming swamped in data you're looking at just one area. The Truth is your ideal which, once attained, is no longer an ideal. So find a way to declare that it's not the Truth. Sticking to your guns is an INFJ trait because you trust your intuitions more than anything. But intuitions are not a guide to Truth, at least not objectively.

I'm just looking at all areas in which to apply the principles of the MBTI system, and looking at how they fit with my own life and apply to others. If I have a number of situations in which I fit one type or temperament more than another, they stack up and look like a collective amount of evidence. That's what I'm aiming for. I want to explore every application and get a picture of all the evidence.

 

[Mal12345]

I don't understand, but interesting.

From "Please Understand Me II" p 144: "The seeking impedes the finding; the search for identity is its own obstacle. Some Idealists no doubt reach Siddhartha's perspective and find their true Self, which means that they finally give up struggling to become some perfected idea of themselves, and simply accept themselves as they are, somewhat short of ideal. But for many NFs, the search for identity only winds them more deeply in the complexities of inner division and self-contradiction: the more they seek their ideal Self, the more frustrated they are in their search."

It's still an ideal. It's just as a thing to strive for, a principle. Like if I value honesty in relationships, the ideal would be to be perfectly honest all the time. But that is unattainable and not reasonable or realistic. So as a principle, we change the goal to the best possible situation, which is the highest level of honesty which is appropriate and works in our particular circumstances, and just use honesty as a guiding principle.
When did I deny the truth? I think we were just talking about different things.

The truth is implied in all my evidence pointing to NF which you constantly downgrade to some secondary status. The truth is in the P/J comparisons from which you mostly chose J, not P. An INTP will choose the P over the J traits.

 

[greenfairy]

Many of the ideas you complained about as being too general are INTP or Ti ideas. SimulatedWorld is an ENTP which is Ti-aux. And yet you prefer to see yourself as an INTP or Ti.

I mean they are too general to really give a comprehensive picture of reality without application, and you can't apply them to every individual without potentially offending or confusing someone. That's all. They are most of what we have and most of how my thought process operates. I just have to apply them to specific situations and people in order to understand the fine distinctions. Like beginning with the fact that F emphasizes values and T emphasizes logic, I would look at values and logic for both types and see how they each look at the same thing.

 

[Mal12345]

I'm just looking at all areas in which to apply the principles of the MBTI system, and looking at how they fit with my own life and apply to others. If I have a number of situations in which I fit one type or temperament more than another, they stack up and look like a collective amount of evidence. That's what I'm aiming for. I want to explore every application and get a picture of all the evidence.

While that may be true, all I see you doing is sticking to your guns despite the evidence.

 

[Mal12345]

I mean they are too general to really give a comprehensive picture of reality without application, and you can't apply them to every individual without potentially offending or confusing someone. That's all. They are most of what we have and most of how my thought process operates. I just have to apply them to specific situations and people in order to understand the fine distinctions. Like beginning with the fact that F emphasizes values and T emphasizes logic, I would look at values and logic for both types and see how they each look at the same thing.

And J emphasizes orderliness, schedules, and promptness; while P emphasizes chaos, randomness, and procrastination.

 

[greenfairy]

From "Please Understand Me II" p 144: "The seeking impedes the finding; the search for identity is its own obstacle. Some Idealists no doubt reach Siddhartha's perspective and find their true Self, which means that they finally give up struggling to become some perfected idea of themselves, and simply accept themselves as they are, somewhat short of ideal. But for many NFs, the search for identity only winds them more deeply in the complexities of inner division and self-contradiction: the more they seek their ideal Self, the more frustrated they are in their search."

Are we talking about value judgments here? Because I already think I am a good enough person. That's not the problem. I mean trying to identify what kind of a person I am and put myself into categories for the purposes of analysis and application of systems.

The truth is implied in all my evidence pointing to NF which you constantly downgrade to some secondary status. The truth is in the P/J comparisons from which you mostly chose J, not P. An INTP will choose the P over the J traits.

Well I can't deny that from what I've said on here it may look that way. But I know the way my mind works, and all the situations in my life in which I've applied these concepts, and all the areas in which I have analyzed the difference between INTP and INFP, and the evidence clearly stacks up in favor of NT. I don't expect I can communicate all this online as it would be impossible. I'm just trying my best. The same goes for J-P, and I would say it would be between INTP and INTJ making me more INTX.

 

[greenfairy]

While that may be true, all I see you doing is sticking to your guns despite the evidence.

I appreciate you showing me the evidence from your perspective. I'm just evaluating it from mine and presenting the arguments I have used in typing myself. If there's something critical I've missed I want to know about it, but I highly doubt it at this point. You never know though.

You are persuading me more toward the J side, making me think I'm more INTX than INXP. I just don't think I'm a feeler. Or I feel like I'm a thinker. hehe

 

[Mal12345]

Are we talking about value judgments here? Because I already think I am a good enough person. That's not the problem.

From the OP: "constant commitment to being my best."

Note the contradictions and recall my quote above from Please Understand Me. "Being my best" is an ideal, while, "a good enough person" is the more enlightened view in the quote on NF Idealists.

I mean trying to identify what kind of a person I am and put myself into categories for the purposes of analysis and application of systems.

I don't subscribe to the "one type per person" scenario. If you are only one type then you're not very well-rounded and probably mental, but I doubt that. MBTI tritypes and tertiary-loop theory apply very well here.

Well I can't deny that from what I've said on here it may look that way. But I know the way my mind works, and all the situations in my life in which I've applied these concepts, and all the areas in which I have analyzed the difference between INTP and INFP,

I don't care about INFP. Your own statements indicate J, so now the choice is forced between INTJ and INFJ.

and the evidence clearly stacks up in favor of NT. I don't expect I can communicate all this online as it would be impossible. I'm just trying my best. The same goes for J-P, and I would say it would be between INTP and INTJ making me more INTX.

"Well, this way of knowing truth I would say is pretty universal. I think the best way to know any truth is through one's intuition."
"It seems like I have more of a judging communication style."
"Although I as far as schedules and deadlines are concerned, they tend to make me commitment phobic. But they kind of also make me feel more comfortable." You're slightly more J.
"I say I connect with the goddess and god energy, but this is not really in a theistic sense." I can't understand this from my INTP perspective.
"I think of it more in terms of archetypes." I really dislike archetypes, but to each his own. Maybe some INTPs like them. But they are more Si.

I don't deny you're something like INXX because there is a narrow gap between the last two letters, but the tertiary-loop applies where you come across in your descriptions as overly introverted because of NiFi or NiTi or some other combination of introverted functions, along with the fact that you're very complex and very introspective. You've admitted above you don't know much about the tertiary loop. It will exclude Fe and prop up Ti in the INFJ type. If you want to consider more evidence, that's the direction to look.