The Psychology of Group Bullying

[Mole]

To understand what is going on here it is important to read, "Odd Girl Out - The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls", by Rachel Simmons.

In it you will find group bullying laid out, from seemingly random personal attacks to attacks by the whole group. And when the victim complains, they are accused of 'venting'.

Male bulling is fairly easy to stop - all you have to do is to stand up to the bully. But if you stand up to group bullying, it only makes it worse.

And this is what I have found here - the more I complain, the worse it gets.

 

[Spamtar]

Sounds like an interesting read...in the very least an interesting subject.

 

[Jaguar]

To understand what is going on here it is important to read, "Odd Girl Out - The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls", by Rachel Simmons.

In it you will find group bullying laid out, from seemingly random personal attacks to attacks by the whole group. And when the victim complains, they are accused of 'venting'.

Male bulling is fairly easy to stop - all you have to do is to stand up to the bully. But if you stand up to group bullying, it only makes it worse.

And this is what I have found here - the more I complain, the worse it gets.

If you have an issue with a specific moderator, have some integrity and take it up with her directly.
Don't start threads like this pretending you are being "bullied."
In reality you are just pissed off about what a moderator did to your posts.

 

[Mole]

Sounds like an interesting read...in the very least an interesting subject.

Yes, what is most interesting is while male aggression is open and physical, female aggression is hidden.

You might say it is a well kept secret but now the secret is out.

And of course the world is changing. Women for instance are now accepted into the Australian military, and indeed our Commander-in-Chief is a woman. And women are being groomed for combat roles in battle. So it seems anomalous that women still have to keep their aggression hidden.

And indeed when aggression is open it can be controlled and even used for good purposes. And the victims of hidden female bullying are almost all women. So women have the most to gain by being open with their aggression.

But my guess is that it will be a long time before women come out of the shadows, if this site is any indication.

 

[Mole]

If you have an issue with a specific moderator, have some integrity and take it up with her directly.
Don't start threads like this pretending you are being "bullied."
In reality you are just pissed off about what a moderator did to your posts.

Hardly, I have spent many years in Men Against Sexism Groups. And I am interested in it from both sides.

I am interested in what sexism does to men and I am interested in what sexism does to women.

And it is time to stop the damage sexism does to women.

And women suffer directly from male sexism and indirectly from female sexism.

We have put male sexism on the table and it is now time to put female group bullying on the table.

And Rachel Simmons in her book, "Odd Girl Out - The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls", has set the table.

All you need to do is pick up her book and read it rather than continuing with your ad hominem attacks on me.

 

[Jaguar]

Hardly

Man up. Quit playing the victim.

 

[Kyrielle]

Yes, what is most interesting is while male aggression is open and physical, female aggression is hidden.

You might say it is a well kept secret but now the secret is out.

And of course the world is changing. Women for instance are now accepted into the Australian military, and indeed our Commander-in-Chief is a woman. And women are being groomed for combat roles in battle. So it seems anomalous that women still have to keep their aggression hidden.

And indeed when aggression is open it can be controlled and even used for good purposes. And the victims of hidden female bullying are almost all women. So women have the most to gain by being open with their aggression.

But my guess is that it will be a long time before women come out of the shadows, if this site is any indication.

[ramble]You know what, I second that notion. It's very hard to catch female bullies because they often have a large sphere of influence and will deny any accusation the target makes against them. So it would be much easier to handle female bullies if they were upfront about things. However, socially, and perhaps a little bit inherently, there is a tendency to keep any aspect of their personality that would "mar them" in the eyes of others hidden. And so most bullying is done where no one will sense it, where no one will suspect anything is wrong, and where the bullies are able to maintain their illusion of power.

I suppose in the past (the "long, long ago, in a galaxy far away" past), this activity might have served to oust the perceived "weaklings" from the group, and whether or not the group's judgement of the target was flawed was irrelevant as basic survival was the primary motivator. However, in our settled, modern society where basic survival needs are taken care of, such judgement is quite relevant as we now have the time, space, and resources to consider each person as an individual.[/ramble]

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

 

[INA]

Yes, what is most interesting is while male aggression is open and physical, female aggression is hidden.

So is the group bullying you here a group of women? I think I remember reading a comment from a mod (excuse me, it was Haight) in some other thread that all the mods hate you. Would you say that many men are now practiced in "female" aggression or is this a strict dichotomy?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I've seen people complain about you, which has seemed very un-nice thing to do, considering your personal, interesting and inoffensive posts. (Some of them may have been offensive, which may be OK too, but I haven't seen any).

You wrote beautifully about introverts blossoming if you cherish them, and if it was partly in joke or entirely honest, it was beautiful and thought-inspiring nonetheless.

You do write threads which aren't literal, but rather figurative, or playful with ideas, which seem to work very well for you to inspire discussion. I'm sad to realize that some might mistake that for "trolling" or something like that. In all honesty, that's being small-minded.

You get inordinate amount of complaints for no reason at all but being personal. I'd say it would have to stop - I wish it would. Have strength, Victor.

 

[Fluffywolf]

The victim ALWAYS has a way out.


Ultimatly, the opinion of people that bully should not be respected or held in high regard. When that is realized, there would be no victim anymore.


But in teenage years and young people in general. The way out may be hard to find. And hard to follow. It's a tough culture to be in for some people.

 

[INA]

IYou do write threads which aren't literal, but rather figurative, or playful with ideas, which seem to work very well for you to inspire discussion.

He does raise some fascinating areas for discussion - take identity politics, that would have been great. The problem is when the discussion doesn't go anywhere - and for this there's plenty of blame to go around, sometimes to Victor, too. The figurative language he uses I find often more colorful (or round) than its literal sister, but if people aren't engaging on that level, it's just words scattered to the wind.

But if you stand up to group bullying, it only makes it worse.

True, but that may be better for the victim in the end, depending on his goal.

 

[Fluffywolf]

The only 'negative' feeling I ever felt towards Victor is

'why the need for all those metaphors that require me to google them in order to understand his point. Fair enough if you want to sound educated, but ultimatly being understood clearly by everyone reaps the most fruit and thus is the most educated descision, no?'

Other than that, he does touch the generally untouched side of things and I enjoy opening my mind to his post. Even though I sometimes need to do some research in order to understand him.


Back on topic. Ignoring bullies is better than attempting to confront them in most situations, in my opinion. Bullies usually don't buly rationally. And you may be able to crush them intellectually in conversation. They would however be stubborn and not falter to defeat. And instead look for other grounds on which to bully.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

I must've missed all these threads where women were bullying your inner girl, Victor, because mostly I've noticed people saying how much they like your style and weirdness. You've even had your own tribute thread.

I started an anonymous poll a while ago asking people to rate how popular they considered themselves on the forum. By and large people rated themselves very lowly. Then the poll was replaced with a public poll and suddenly the average rating was much higher. The point being that just about everyone feels like they're on the outer -- the odd one out -- though they might not show it. I think it's just the way things work with internet forums. The mods as a group seem a pretty benign mob to me, so I doubt they're out to get you even if some of them don't respect you.

So relax and try not to take things personally (even on those occasions when they're intended to be personal).

 

[entropie]

I get bullied by woman on a regular basis, can't touch this

 

[wildcat]

I've seen people complain about you, which has seemed very un-nice thing to do, considering your personal, interesting and inoffensive posts. (Some of them may have been offensive, which may be OK too, but I haven't seen any).

You wrote beautifully about introverts blossoming if you cherish them, and if it was partly in joke or entirely honest, it was beautiful and thought-inspiring nonetheless.

You do write threads which aren't literal, but rather figurative, or playful with ideas, which seem to work very well for you to inspire discussion. I'm sad to realize that some might mistake that for "trolling" or something like that. In all honesty, that's being small-minded.

You get inordinate amount of complaints for no reason at all but being personal. I'd say it would have to stop - I wish it would. Have strength, Victor.

I did not know this kind of persecution is going on. It is very sad.
I do not know who the moderator is in question. Santtu wrote a good post.
Victor writes good posts.
I do not agree with all of them, but they are all good.

Shame on you, bullies.

 

[wildcat]

He does raise some fascinating areas for discussion - take identity politics, that would have been great. The problem is when the discussion doesn't go anywhere - and for this there's plenty of blame to go around, sometimes to Victor, too. The figurative language he uses I find often more colorful (or round) than its literal sister, but if people aren't engaging on that level, it's just words scattered to the wind.

True, but that may be better for the victim in the end, depending on his goal.

I disagree here. Sorry, no offence.
Words scattered to the wind, you say. Not at all.

I tell you why the journalists engage in a figurative language.
It is because writing is their business. They are professionals in the game, you see.
So is Victor.

Literal language has a place, too.
It is suitable for the recipes and such things.

 

[Totenkindly]

I see value in both wildcat's and InaF3157's comments, but I feel like people are talking around each other here. None of these observations have much to do with why this thread was started, and the fact that it continues onwards, unimpeded, should shed more than enough light on the validity of the original claim(s).

 

[wildcat]

I see value in both wildcat's and InaF3157's comments, but I feel like people are talking around each other here. None of these observations have much to do with why this thread was started, and the fact that it continues onwards, unimpeded, should shed more than enough light on the validity of the original claim(s).

I am in the woods then. I do not know the origin of the origin. The mystery is in the cloud of the past and beyond recovery. I try to reach it, all in vain.
I have not read Rachel. I am so old fashioned. I have read The Second Sex, by Simone.
It was a good book. The first of its kind. It opened new vistas.
Thank you for sharing your view.

 

[Keps Mnemnosyne]

My view of what is going on right here is a Karpman Drama triangle which isn't helping anyone.

Nonetheless I do have to agree with FluffyWolf that it is in general easier to ignore bullying then it is to turn to authority to fight it. The exception is when it turns physically violent. As Victor said one may be accused of overreacting to a situation by authority. I think that is because authority is not omniscient, have a conflict of interests, or in some cases the victim is overreacting. Nonetheless I have seen group bullying (not directed at me) firsthand and I tried to fight against it, but it was useless until a year had passed. For me, the question is how to end such a situation. Any ideas?