[sx] The other side of SX

[Hive]

After going through all of this I guess all I would be interested in knowing is do you ever experience the spiritual bonding side of sex...?

Now that I'm back and had some time to think about this...

I sure feel something, some kind of bond, but I would never use the word "spiritual" to describe it. In fact, I don't really know how to put it into words at all. It feels like... something I was put here to do, as pompous as that may sound. That's what I mean when I say it's instinctual, like something deep down is triggered, telling me this is right, this is good, this is what I'm supposed to do.

But I thought about the spiritual sex you're talking about and realized that I don't identify with it simply because it's an experience I largely lack. Love is tricky for me. It's extremely rare that I fall in love... Which I'm guessing is more or less a prerequisite what you other ENFP's have been talking about.

This is a kinda weird realization, because that could mean I've basically been talking out of my ass this whole time, and that my perspective could change drastically once I jump into bed with someone I actually love. On the other hand, thinking about sex this way was kinda default for me... And I'm not sure that would change if I had sex with someone I share a stronger bond of love with, because that's what I naturally feel about it. I can imagine that it adds another dimension to the sex and intensifies it, though, which would be mindblowingly awesome because I already love it so much.

 

[AzulEyes]

At least they have more fun than you.

Being naked for the world of fatass perverts to masterbate to my image is not something I consider fun.
The private sex I have with my lover is all the fun I need.

 

[Starry]

Now that I'm back and had some time to think about this...

I sure feel something, some kind of bond, but I would never use the word "spiritual" to describe it. In fact, I don't really know how to put it into words at all. It feels like... something I was put here to do, as pompous as that may sound. That's what I mean when I say it's instinctual, like something deep down is triggered, telling me this is right, this is good, this is what I'm supposed to do.

The bold haha...I love that. I'm totally going to start thinking of it that way as well. "I'm so fuckin sexy...it's basically my duty...my Life's purpose if you will... to sex up as many dudes as I can." haha. Seriously, whatever we can do to make the world a better place...

^No I understand where you were going with that when you say instinct. And when you are in-tune with them there's an earthly power there that you're plugged into...a fire that you are tapping...and you are in fact connected to something larger than yourself. I understand this now.

But I thought about the spiritual sex you're talking about and realized that I don't identify with it simply because it's an experience I largely lack. Love is tricky for me. It's extremely rare that I fall in love... Which I'm guessing is more or less a prerequisite what you other ENFP's have been talking about.

Because human instinct comes naturally to you it makes sense you would make use of it. For me, I can't say I'm entirely removed from my own sexual instincts...but like you were saying I'm 100% Ne Head Type... I'm not grounded in the same ways as others are - I know I'm not - I feel that. And so I have come to depend on iNtuition as opposed to iNstinct as my guide...in all things...which includes who I decide to do.

I know...although I don't really know how to explain how I know... but I know... out from beyond what I'm capable of understanding and down to each strand of my own DNA... this all encompassing warmth of connecting in the realm of the spirit... **hold on here for a moment while I take another hit off this bong...

^^None of that absolute amazingness makes Love less tricky for me...and relying on what I believe to be *soul recognition* sure the hell makes it a lot more rare. But because I'm insane and those are my prerequisites... because that is the system I use to identify the shagables... I'm going to go ahead and assume you're getting laid a lot more than I am so who's truly winning here? haha

This is a kinda weird realization, because that could mean I've basically been talking out of my ass this whole time, and that my perspective could change drastically once I jump into bed with someone I actually love. On the other hand, thinking about sex this way was kinda default for me... And I'm not sure that would change if I had sex with someone I share a stronger bond of love with, because that's what I naturally feel about it. I can imagine that it adds another dimension to the sex and intensifies it, though, which would be mindblowingly awesome because I already love it so much.

I don't think you're talking out of your ass at all. When I asked you that question I actually missed that you had never been in love before (what are you 14? 7w8 or not it's difficult imagining an ENFP e7 not having been in love before. That 8 wing must really bring in a desire to shape-shift your way around and out from under the control of commitment...? idk. that in itself is very interesting to me)... I think it's completely sane to fall in love and continue to have sex on instinct or at the instinctual level only.

 

[Hive]

The bold haha...I love that. I'm totally going to start thinking of it that way as well. "I'm so fuckin sexy...it's basically my duty...my Life's purpose if you will... to sex up as many dudes as I can." haha. Seriously, whatever we can do to make the world a better place...

Precisely. We didn't ask for this kind of power, but turning our backs on the responsibilities that come with it is simply not an option.

^No I understand where you were going with that when you say instinct. And when you are in-tune with them there's an earthly power there that you're plugged into...a fire that you are tapping...and you are in fact connected to something larger than yourself. I understand this now.

This is exactly it, and more on point than any explanation I could muster.

Because human instinct comes naturally to you it makes sense you would make use of it. For me, I can't say I'm entirely removed from my own sexual instincts...but like you were saying I'm 100% Ne Head Type... I'm not grounded in the same ways as others are - I know I'm not - I feel that. And so I have come to depend on iNtuition as opposed to iNstinct as my guide...in all things...which includes who I decide to do.

I know...although I don't really know how to explain how I know... but I know... out from beyond what I'm capable of understanding and down to each strand of my own DNA... this all encompassing warmth of connecting in the realm of the spirit... **hold on here for a moment while I take another hit off this bong...

^^None of that absolute amazingness makes Love less tricky for me...and relying on what I believe to be *soul recognition* sure the hell makes it a lot more rare. But because I'm insane and those are my prerequisites... because that is the system I use to identify the shagables... I'm going to go ahead and assume you're getting laid a lot more than I am so who's truly winning here? haha

Yeah, I totally get how you go about it.

I mean, I don't understand it, perhaps some day I will, but I definetely get you.

And let's just say I'm perfectly happy with my track record thus far.

I don't think you're talking out of your ass at all. When I asked you that question I actually missed that you had never been in love before (what are you 14? 7w8 or not it's difficult imagining an ENFP e7 not having been in love before. That 8 wing must really bring in a desire to shape-shift your way around and out from under the control of commitment...? idk. that in itself is very interesting to me)... I think it's completely sane to fall in love and continue to have sex on instinct or at the instinctual level only.

You didn't really 'miss' it because I didn't mention it until the post you quoted now. What I meant with "talking out of my ass" was that I haven't emotionally connected during sex and therefore lack a proper perspective on it, and that my attitude on hedonistic vs. spiritual sex might change when I've had that experience.

I have been in love before. Once. I was too crippled by doubt and anxious about my inexperience to take the first step, though. That sucked, but at least it taught to never be hesitant with girls I'm attracted to, so it was probably more good than bad for me. Falling in love has never happened to me since. Attraction is a whole other thing though, and more like the "moth to flame" thing you read about in Sx descriptions, being drawn to whoever's exciting and whatever. But hardly being able to stand up because your whole body is folding double thinking about a certain girl? Hasn't happened in a long time.

It's funny because I read a quote by Iggy Pop, another 7w8 (But ESxP), talking about the singer Nico, where he said basically the same thing: "Nico was really something special. I couldn't fall in love with anybody, but I was really thrilled and excited to be around her. She was older and she was from somewhere else." If I don't completely misremember, both 7 and 8 are the types most out of touch with their feelings, so it wouldn't surprise me if this is common among 7w8's and 8w7's.

And I'm 19, btw. (Really, 14? Usually people mistake me for much older than I am.)

 

[Zarathustra]

I have been in love before. Once. I was too crippled by doubt and anxious about my inexperience to take the first step, though. That sucked, but at least it taught to never be hesitant with girls I'm attracted to, so it was probably more good than bad for me. Falling in love has never happened to me since. Attraction is a whole other thing though, and more like the "moth to flame" thing you read about in Sx descriptions, being drawn to whoever's exciting and whatever. But hardly being able to stand up because your whole body is folding double thinking about a certain girl? Hasn't happened in a long time.

Why do all ENFPs seem to report this same experience?

It's funny because I read a quote by Iggy Pop, another 7w8 (But ESxP), talking about the singer Nico, where he said basically the same thing: "Nico was really something special. I couldn't fall in love with anybody, but I was really thrilled and excited to be around her. She was older and she was from somewhere else."

How certain are you that you're not an ESP?

Not saying you are, just wondering

If I don't completely misremember, both 7 and 8 are the types most out of touch with their feelings...

I don't buy that notion at all.

 

[five sounds]

Why do all ENFPs seem to report this same experience?

will you elaborate? what experience do you mean?

 

[Zarathustra]

will you elaborate? what experience do you mean?

Well, most every ENFP on here has reported "having no problem flirting when they don't really mean it (i.e., aren't that into the person), but, once they really like someone in a romantic way, they get all clammy, don't know what to do, and often become silent around the other person".

Something like that.

 

[Animal]

Well, most every ENFP on here has reported "having no problem flirting when they don't really mean it (i.e., aren't that into the person), but, once they really like someone in a romantic way, they get all clammy, don't know what to do, and often become silent around the other person".

Something like that.

Didn't realize that was an ENFP thing.. interesting. Why would that relate to ENFP?

I am exactly like this. My type 1 friend has been making fun of me for this since highschool, and I still haven't gotten much better. She said once to a group: "How do you know if [Animal] likes you? … She's flirting with everyone in the room but you. "

 

[Zarathustra]

Didn't realize that was an ENFP thing.. interesting. Why would that relate to ENFP?

I am exactly like this. My type 1 friend has been making fun of me for this since highschool, and I still haven't gotten much better. She said once to a group: "How do you know if [Animal] likes you? … She's flirting with everyone in the room but you. "

Honestly, I don't know why, but nearly every ENFP on here has said something to this tune.

 

[Animal]

Honestly, I don't know why, but nearly every ENFP on here has said something to this tune.

Interesting.

I find it easier to talk to the people I actually want to talk to over internet, though not always easy. IRL it's hard.. my heart starts fluttering too much. I wonder what this is like for ENTJ's and ESTJ's who have inferior Fi. It's probably worse for them. But with Fi in such a position they might fail to comprehend it and express it in words the way ENFP's do.

 

[Galena]

Interesting.

I find it easier to talk to the people I actually want to talk to over internet, though not always easy. IRL it's hard.. my heart starts fluttering too much. I wonder what this is like for ENTJ's and ESTJ's who have inferior Fi. It's probably worse for them. But with Fi in such a position they might fail to comprehend it and express it in words the way ENFP's do.

I used to be like this until it hit me how much felt information and messages I MISSED while communicating by text only, which resulted in some conflicts. Maybe I am just crap at reading others when they are not in front of me, but now talking online is less comfortable than in person.

I have considered negative sx-dominance for my type...the memories that the descriptions of sx 4 bring up are the earliest and most basic. If typing was only about what we are like in our home spaces with our intimates, I would be Sx dominant unquestionably. It was the way I saw the world and other people.

But there was a hard line at the front door from even the earliest age. Once out in public, I would become the polar opposite sort of kid: no longer a fighter, quiet, timid, irresistibly breakable, a lot like the really yucky so-dom descriptions. Competitive rage magically...gone. Inside, I was in love with love itself and always, even in gradeschool, was transfixed by particular beautiful people, but I never let that on to anybody. Didn't even date. I had intense interests that would occasionally leak when I burned myself out on them. Ridiculously...I could be wedded to something like, say...math? An art series? Merely an idea? To the point where working at them could push me to tears or doing dumb shit like sleeping 8 hours total a school week or drastically changing schools based on an inspiration I'd had earlier the same day (to somewhere I had no chance to survive in, of course)...ironically yet unsurprisingly I was at times ejected violently from any chance to seriously pursue something I loved because of emotional burnout converting to physical breaks. From the outside...few knew. May God have finally given peace to those who did!

No clue in hell why the extreme split. It still exists in adulthood, though my public mode is more sp-like, stony. I'd need to be convinced hardcore that such a public/private personality burnslash could be compatible with sx before I'd claim the instinct as anything but last again. When I read about sx 4, I see indomitable. That person wouldn't let themselves be silenced by the world. I did.

 

[Starry]

Expert use of the smoke emoticon.

…let's just say I'm perfectly happy with my track record thus far.

And I'm 19, btw.

Expert... albeit puritanical use of Edvard Munch's painting...
Malmo Art Museum, Sweden.

Ummmm...yah...I was just kidding with regards to the 'age 14' comment. I thought you were a good deal older than 19... yah.

I have been in love before. Once. I was too crippled by doubt and anxious about my inexperience to take the first step, though. That sucked, but at least it taught to never be hesitant with girls I'm attracted to, so it was probably more good than bad for me. Falling in love has never happened to me since. Attraction is a whole other thing though, and more like the "moth to flame" thing you read about in Sx descriptions, being drawn to whoever's exciting and whatever. But hardly being able to stand up because your whole body is folding double thinking about a certain girl? Hasn't happened in a long time.

I'm going to try and come up with a good answer for Zarathustra pertaining to what happens to "ENFPs in love" and may end up quoting this paragraph all over again but for my own questions...

I do understand the sx "moth to the flame" thing... it's just that physical attractiveness alone is not enough "flame" for me. And so just to be absolutely certain in what you're saying... is finding someone physically attractive all the "exciting" you need to be drawn to them and have sex with them? Or is more needed like they need to have an intriguing personality or whatever (<-I think a lot of guys are like this...I've just never met an ENFP male that is this way so it's interesting to me.) And what do you do...do you have purely sexual but longer term relationships with women? Or do you just sleep with someone once and move on? Do you go out to dinner with these girls haha...talk to them get to know them....how long does the instinctual pull normally last for you? And what if the female developed deeper than instinctual feelings for you? (I hope it's obvious that you don't have to answer these questions...i really appreciated what you have answered as well.)

If I don't completely misremember, both 7 and 8 are the types most out of touch with their feelings, so it wouldn't surprise me if this is common among 7w8's and 8w7's.

^^I'm thinking on this...

 

[Animal]

I used to be like this until it hit me how much felt information and messages I MISSED while communicating by text only, which resulted in some conflicts. Maybe I am just crap at reading others when they are not in front of me, but now talking online is less comfortable than in person.

I agree with this. Words are often used to obscure the truth whereas body language, gestures, and nuances are what reveal the truth.

It's because I can hide behind the screen and express myself more "as I choose" that I'm a bit more comfortable talking to crushes. It's not that I'm dishonest, it's just that I have less shame about my obvious infatuation spilling out from my facial expression and gestures. (Realistically this happens with crushes IRL whether I speak to them or not, but attempting to speak just makes it worse.)

When I read about sx 4, I see indomitable. That person wouldn't let themselves be silenced by the world. I did.

I am absolutely indomitable.

Just because it's difficult for me to march up and talk doesn't mean I don't avidly chase what I want. Make no mistake. There are many ways to lure someone in besides having a conversation. Performing locally, wearing the outfits that express who I am, eye contact, body language. I've never just "let someone go" because it was difficult to simply walk up and flirt with them. The problem is, I alone am not enough, in that scenario. Only super-me is enough. I have to be more me than me, and show him something beyond the every day, normal me. This way I stand apart from the rest.

Indomitable is a word I would use to describe myself if I had to do it in ten words. I had a music career as a teen and lost my voice to an illness at 16, which left me speaking in a whisper. I still sang lead on my own album in my late 20s, which I produced, wrote, etc - but sang lead through my whisper. This was a major battle, no easy feat, and required major lifestyle changes, living in a city, working my ass off at various endeavors to support it, leading and managing and booking the band, balancing my health needs and so much more. Nothing was going to silence my voice. After that my illness got worse again and the small amount of voice I had , has been gone for about three years, so I am writing a novel, conquering my health issues, barely leaving the house and giving my absolute all to my novel & health, and biding my time before I can record the next two albums. Nothing stops me from expressing myself.

 

[Lady_X]

Didn't realize that was an ENFP thing.. interesting. Why would that relate to ENFP?

I am exactly like this. My type 1 friend has been making fun of me for this since highschool, and I still haven't gotten much better. She said once to a group: "How do you know if [Animal] likes you? … She's flirting with everyone in the room but you. "

omg me too

like everyone would think it was someone else. it's really bizarre.

 

[Starry]

omg me too

like everyone would think it was someone else. it's really bizarre.

Why does this happen though in your opinion...? I have some ideas that I'm attempting to put into words...

 

[Lady_X]

Why does this happen though in your opinion...? I have some ideas that I'm attempting to put into words...

idk...honestly i can only really remember this happening a couple times...i guess it's just nerves? or maybe i'm just feeling something too intensely to talk. it's like the energy over here is too much and i'm going to throw up so i'm just going to bounce it around the room everywhere else.

haha no really idk let me think on it.

 

[entropie]

chronically desexed ?

 

[Animal]

omg me too

like everyone would think it was someone else. it's really bizarre.

Haha. I'm not sure if my luck was that good. Usually people figured me out but I still couldn't get it together.

idk...honestly i can only really remember this happening a couple times...i guess it's just nerves? or maybe i'm just feeling something too intensely to talk. it's like the energy over here is too much and i'm going to throw up so i'm just going to bounce it around the room everywhere else.

haha no really idk let me think on it.

Hahaha. I kind of know what you mean on that

I get overwhelmed by the energy.
But also I get EXTREMELY self conscious. Like I imagine what I look like through his eyes and it's never good enough, never as good as he looks through my eyes. Or I just EXPECT to get rejected, for no real reason.. I just feel disgusting and worthless and stupid, like nothing I say is interesting enough. "The fantasy of being rejected leads to the very behavior that gets me rejected" basically.

 

[entropie]

You animal *rawr*

 

[Lady_X]

Haha. I'm not sure if my luck was that good. Usually people figured me out but I still couldn't get it together.


Hahaha. I kind of know what you mean on that

I get overwhelmed by the energy.
But also I get EXTREMELY self conscious. Like I imagine what I look like through his eyes and it's never good enough, never as good as he looks through my eyes. Or I just EXPECT to get rejected, for no real reason.. I just feel disgusting and worthless and stupid, like nothing I say is interesting enough. "The fantasy of being rejected leads to the very behavior that gets me rejected" basically.

okay interesting...that's like the type 4 version of sxness

type 7 just feels manic or spazzy or incapable of dealing with it atm