The Official Type this Person Thread

[miss deceit]

Re-read the op. And the giant blue message.

This thread is for asking about type.

tilt

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

tilt

 

[Pionart]

Hopefully the bicycle stops wobbling as it picks up more momentum...

(that's an analogy for this thread)

 

[Pionart]

Holly Starr:

The way she smiles gives me clear reminders of some people I know, but certain features of the face and voice seem quite ambiguous, so I'm having a hard time making the call.

The type I had in mind re: smiles was ENFP, however, her facial features are clearly (to me) introverted, judgement dominant, feeling (i.e. IxFP). I might have to reconsider some other typings as a result.

I think she's probably INFP rather than ISFP, but I was getting vocal signals of both Ne and Se, both Ni and Si, so maybe a true IxFP? I'll continue working on it.

(I actually initially thought she was an INFJ)

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Wasn't 100% on the first guy's instincts, but Kid Cudi seems like a pretty straightforward INFP 6w7 Sp/Sx. This type is kinda pseudo 4-ish on some levels (sp 6, probably particularly Sp/Sx).

 

[chubber]

Enneatype 3 is not synonymous with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Threes can sometimes find intimacy difficult. Their need to be validated for their image often hides a deep sense of shame about who they really are, a shame they unconsciously fear will be unmasked if another gets too close. Threes are often generous and likable, but are difficult to really know. When unhealthy, their narcissism takes an ugly turn and they can become cold blooded and ruthless in the pursuit of their goals.

source: Enneagram Type 3 - The Achiever

 

[Peter Deadpan]

It's cute that you think narcissism as a quality is the same thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and also that you think all ennea-type 3s have a clinically diagnosable and irremediable personality disorder, or even that they are the only ennea-type associated with narcissism as a trait.

 

[chubber]

It's cute that you think narcissism as a quality is the same thing as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and also that you think all ennea-type 3s have a clinically diagnosable and irremediable personality disorder, or even that they are the only ennea-type associated with narcissism as a trait.

Well, maybe I'm old school, because in traditional enneagram literature, 3s and 7s were mostly identified as narcissistic, and if narcissism was pervasive, it was then diagnosed is NPD. But isn't 7s inclined to fall under borderline personality disorder since they seem so similar to NPD? Anyway, how do we know that these other types didn't disintegrate into 3 or 7, and then we got to see the negative side only, even though it wasn't pervasive.

But if you think it is cute, it must be so in your world.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Well, maybe I'm old school, because in traditional enneagram literature, 3s and 7s were mostly identified as narcissistic, and if narcissism was pervasive, it was then diagnosed is NPD. But isn't 7s inclined to fall under borderline personality disorder since they seem so similar to NPD? Anyway, how do we know that these other types didn't disintegrate into 3 or 7, and then we got to see the negative side only, even though it wasn't pervasive.

But if you think it is cute, it must be so in your world.

What's cute is when you respond to me with nothing but a smiley face in an act of passive intellectual competition, assuming that I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject at hand.

Yes, ennea-types 3 and 7 are most associated with narcissism, but they certainly do not carry a monopoly on the trait itself. What I mean is that you cannot look at a narcissistic person and conclude "this person is a 3/7!" Furthermore, you cannot say the same about someone with NPD, and yes, the distinction needs to be made because people freely confuse the two as one and the same.

I do know what I am talking about. I have mentioned here several times that I was married to an ennea-type 3 with actual NPD, which was a hellish experience that left my mind twisted from several years of gaslighting. I have researched the subject extensively and overlaid that knowledge with my ongoing studies of the Enneagram. This is why I am able to look at NPD and ennea-type 3 as two separate, albeit similar, ego structures, and why I do not fall into the trap of assuming that anyone with NPD and a showy display is an ennea-type 3.

You simply cannot determine one's ennea-type by hyperfocusing on their neuroses or personality disorders, because it's just not that black and white. 6s don't hold a monopoly on anxiety/worry, and 4s don't hold a monopoly on depression/inferiority, and 9s aren't the only people who dissociate.

 

[chubber]

There's some kind of correlation when the types reach an unhealthy level, according to the literature.
But it's also true that not all NPDs are 3s or 7s and not all 3s and 7s have NPD. That's a personality disturb, something that has to be clinically diagnosed by a therapist, not something that typology should deal with, in my opinion.
It's just as saying that all INPs are autistic or aspergers. We do share some traits, at times, but it's different from actually falling in the spectrum.

I'll never get tired of saying that correlation doesn't imply causation, and that a personality trait is different from a pathological condition.

Okay, I hear you. However, I want to address this old saying that correlation doesn't imply causation. Would you not agree, that e3s in general will have a higher level or probability of getting diagnosed if the person was brought up in a dysfunctional family? Because of the deep rooted, insecurity that was brought on from an early childhood and the only way of coping, was to keep up appearances. I'm also going to reference attachment theory here. How much was known about narcissism at the time? How much was known about alcohol dependency, and now codependency. The Classic Narcissist, as we know today, fits it very well. Or are you referring to what we know today as subtypes of Narcissism, and because of that, all types can therefore be diagnosed potentially as NPD?

Types:

1. I am morally superior and know the one right way regardless of how it impacts you and my superior sense of righteousness.
2. I am wonderful because I’m so helpful and I deserve special treatment (the sacrificing martyr)
3. I’m a winner and the best…look at how successful I am and admire me for it and give me special treatment.
4. I’m misunderstood and no one can understand my specialness
5. I’m more knowledgeable than all these ignorant people (as I unconsciously cut off my heart and I’m intellectually narcissistic).
6. I’m loyal and dutiful to my people/group and project all my disowned aggression/fears of deviance and vulnerability onto others. This can devolve into us vs. them aggression and a sort of group narcissism. This may show up as intellectual narcissism or a tendency to be a sort of preening prince/princess as a way of compensating for insecurity.
7. I’m wonderful, witty and charming deserved of attention and admiration and if you don’t admire me, I’m out of here. 7s often display the hallmark narcissistic tendency to be hyper sensitive to criticism.
8. I am the biggest, most powerful and the best and my _____ (fill in the blank) are bigger and better than yours. (Think Gaston in Beauty and the Beast). 8s can experience the narcissistic tendency to be vengeful.
9. I’m unaware of my stubborn aggression and passively block out/don’t deal with anything that threatens my comfort regardless of its impact on others. (9s are less likely to be labeled a classic narcissist though introverted passivity and refusal to deal with normal life conflict and discomfort has its own destructive qualities.
   

So if you want to use that angle that every type can be narcissistic, I can agree with you and how that maps over to subtypes of known NPD today. But I cannot see how you can deny that what is today known as the classic narcissist, is not the basic unhealthy side of the e3. And the more pervasive it is, the more the e3 is going to be inclined to be diagnosed, if left untreated. I see typology as a way to pick up, in another way, when someone has a tendency to dip quickly into that negative side. Do I dislike e3s? No, I don't, in fact, I think they are easier to deal with, because it is more well known, unlike the other subtypes.

 

[chubber]

What's cute is when you respond to me with nothing but a smiley face in an act of passive intellectual competition, assuming that I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject at hand.

Yes, ennea-types 3 and 7 are most associated with narcissism, but they certainly do not carry a monopoly on the trait itself. What I mean is that you cannot look at a narcissistic person and conclude "this person is a 3/7!" Furthermore, you cannot say the same about someone with NPD, and yes, the distinction needs to be made because people freely confuse the two as one and the same.

I do know what I am talking about. I have mentioned here several times that I was married to an ennea-type 3 with actual NPD, which was a hellish experience that left my mind twisted from several years of gaslighting. I have researched the subject extensively and overlaid that knowledge with my ongoing studies of the Enneagram. This is why I am able to look at NPD and ennea-type 3 as two separate, albeit similar, ego structures, and why I do not fall into the trap of assuming that anyone with NPD and a showy display is an ennea-type 3.

You simply cannot determine one's ennea-type by hyperfocusing on their neuroses or personality disorders, because it's just not that black and white. 6s don't hold a monopoly on anxiety/worry, and 4s don't hold a monopoly on depression/inferiority, and 9s aren't the only people who dissociate.

Why do we have types then, if you can't stick people into a group? What would be the point then? They all have something in common that is more in common with them, than with others.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Why do we have types then, if you can't stick people into a group? What would be the point then? They all have something in common that is more in common with them, than with others.

That's really what you got out of all that?
K.

 

[chubber]

That's really what you got out of all that?
K.

Yes, the rest is personal.

 

[Drunkstein]

I don't acknowledge socionics as having a separate existence from the typing system I use (which is approximately MBTI). I just haven't seen reason to think it's valid as a distinct system.

well when one system types esfp as a fun loving party, skateboarder or whatever and the other types as fucking Julius Cesar or Napoleon, I think those are very distinct systems no?

 

[Pionart]

well when one system types esfp as a fun loving party, skateboarder or whatever and the other types as fucking Julius Cesar or Napoleon, I think those are very distinct systems no?

Perhaps so, but there is always the possibility of mistypes. The typings associated with a system do not equate to the system itself.

What I think is paramount in the distinction is that:
a) socionics posits a function order, where for instance the third function of Ni dominant is Si, and
b) socionics posits that Ni for instance has the best energetic relation with Se, rather than Ne, of which its relation is poor.

And I wonder what the basis is for either of these claims.

--

What I mean about not seeing the system as having a distinct existence is to do with the fact that I haven't come across some other system existing in reality in my investigations. I do typings by a few different methods, and I've read information from a wide spectrum of places, including socionics, but it all seems to converge on the same thing, from what I can tell. So even if socionics is making claims that go against what I've found, to me that just says that socionics is an invalid system, and I will keep thinking so until I see reason to think that it's valid, and is actually pointing to something that's "there".

 

[Firebird 8118]

I’ll be honest here, I don’t know what I am anymore.

I used to confidently claim all these years that I’m INFP, but now I’m not so sure. I’m starting to consider the possibility that I may be an ENFP, but I don’t know how to tell the difference between the two let alone figure out where I truly belong in this...

 

[Pionart]

I’ll be honest here, I don’t know what I am anymore.

I used to confidently claim all these years that I’m INFP, but now I’m not so sure. I’m starting to consider the possibility that I may be an ENFP, but I don’t know how to tell the difference between the two let alone figure out where I truly belong in this...

I remember I attempted to type you a few months ago and the answer that came up was INFP, but I'll try to take a closer look and hopefully provide reasoning.

The way to tell INFP from ENFP is by function sequences. INFP starts with Fi, then uses Ne then Si then Te (then Fe etc.), whereas ENFP starts with Ne, then uses Fi then Te then Si (then Ni etc.). Many things, with forum posts being a key example here, show the sequential order of processes (there are also manifestations of the functions which aren't sequential, but rather can happen in any order, or several at once etc.).

 

[Drunkstein]

The way to tell INFP from ENFP is by function sequences. INFP starts with Fi, then uses Ne then Si then Te (then Fe etc.)).

Not exactly, the order is there because of what is priority in the psyche. When a person uses Fi, Fe is happening simultaneously to a lesser degree, it doesn't mean Fe is gonna happen after Te. In fact that last thing you said about Fe after Te is part of John Beebe model, it's not as if mbti has adopted this model as official.

 

[Pionart]

Not exactly, the order is there because of what is priority in the psyche. When a person uses Fi, Fe is happening simultaneously to a lesser degree, it doesn't mean Fe is gonna happen after Te. In fact that last thing you said about Fe after Te is part of John Beebe model, it's not as if mbti has adopted this model as official.

Order doesn't just mean priority, it also manifests in terms of sequential use. Read people's longer forum posts, or observe your own cognition for 10-30 minutes to see what I mean.

Fe does happen after Te in an INFP. When I read my posts, I see Ne used after Se time and time again. I'm not saying this because it agrees with Beebe, actually I disagree with Beebe regarding archetypes, and it is irrelevant to me what the official MBTI model is because I'm interested in how these things manifest in reality, not what person A or B said about it. I can see the sequences, and it seems unlikely that I'm reading something that isn't there.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Ugh.