The Merit of Lana Del Rey

[Evee]

Dear lord, when i get to heaven

 

[Thalassa]

I am not a fan of Lana Del Ray.

I don't like the sound of her voice, the instrumentation is kinda boring and lacks the elements I usually go for in music, and her image just isn't my style. I tried to get into her multiple times though. Quite a lot of my friends said "have you heard her?! You will love her!" Considering I listen to bands like The Knife, iamamiwhoami, Planningtorock, and others in that vein. I just... I couldn't get into it. All I could think was "this just sounds bad... why do people like this?". I could hear it was well done but something was off.

Nevertheless, she is very popular and well regarded as original and talented, so I withhold my judgement beyond my personal taste. Music is rather subjective anyway. It's difficult to label something as truly "bad". That said, some Lana fans I have met seem to get really offended over the fact that I don't care for her, and I just don't get it. People are allowed to dislike music?

The Knife is one of my favorite bands so I am unclear on why that makes it obvious you shouldn't like LDR but at least you criticize her music and aren't on some bizarre mission to fit in with the cool kids by calling her a hipster.

 

[Thalassa]

Dear lord, when i get to heaven

Please let me bring my man

 

[chickpea]

Honestly I wish you could be as reasonable as someone like hard and just say you don't like her music (my ESFJ sister doesn't either) without calling me crazy or brainwashed, or making utterly ignorant statements like "there's nothing to get" when you obviously didn't even understand her creative angle.

It's obnoxious. It goes so far beyond simply not liking particular music, and you aren't the only one who talks this way, it's trendy now.

Defending anyone who isn't your blood or your deity this hard is a little crazy to me. I feel that you really overreacted. You also missed my point, I think I understand her schtick pretty well, I just dislike it and don't find it nearly as deep as you're trying to make it. I won't just say "I don't like her music," because while her music is just boring and meh to me, her persona is what really turns me off of her. And I don't believe that she even constructed it herself which makes her even lamer.

 

[Thalassa]

Defending anyone who isn't your blood or your deity this hard is a little crazy to me. I feel that you really overreacted. You also missed my point, I think I understand her schtick pretty well, I just dislike it and don't find it nearly as deep as you're trying to make it. I won't just say "I don't like her music," because while her music is just boring and meh to me, her persona is what really turns me off of her. And I don't believe that she even constructed it herself which makes her even lamer.

If you actually knew her music you would know she constructed it herself (live performance of Trash/Miss America on YouTube as Lizzy Grant back in the day, videos for Kinda Outta Luck and You Can Be the Boss)...in essence you have no idea what you are talking about but speak with absurd false authority. Yeah I am a real fan, and I obviously continually use hyperbole and self mockery as part of my humor on forums, but I appreciate your "concern" :eyeroll:

It's plainly obvious that as Lizzy Grant she played different characters and even with fake accents within the same general construct. All artists generally have some help from stylists bur in basic framework she is the same as she was when she went by her birth name. Ultraviolence carries out a similar theme but via a kind of old jazzy blues kind of feel.

 

[chickpea]

I never claimed to be any authority on Lana del Rey's music like I've probably heard 4 songs of hers. I've read interviews though, and I feel like you're putting way more thought into this than she is.

 

[á´…eparted]

The Knife is one of my favorite bands so I am unclear on why that makes it obvious you shouldn't like LDR but at least you criticize her music and aren't on some bizarre mission to fit in with the cool kids by calling her a hipster.

What I meant was that liking The Knife (one of my favorite bands as well) would makes it very likely that I would get into LDR (hence many people suggested her). The only time I ever remark on an artists image is if they are being overtly and clearly hostile in some regard. Well, with maybe one exception.

A few years ago when Grimes came to prominence I had a lot of people suggest to me that I'd really get into her as well and I just... I couldn't do it. The music felt very forced and boring. I like repetitive minimalist music, but she took it to a point where I was just bored. Her image though really did bother me. It seemed like she was trying way too hard. Watching her videos I felt like she was just putting things there for the sake of it, a mishmash of unrelated things, and it came out bad. It was to the point where I saw her as annoying and pretentious. Again though, many people seemed to like her, so I thought "...well I guess people like that? To each their own." Grimes does strike me as a hipster, but I don't mean that in a derogatory sense (a hipster is not automatically a bad thing). She's very into advant-garde style and attitude. She seems like a genuine nice person when I have seen interviews of her. Ultimately, it's just not my thing.

I have a hard time being mad at a person unless they are intending to harm someone, break rules/laws without giving a shit, stir up trouble for the sake of, or any of these done naiively but repetively without learning. Musicians almost never do that, so there's not much to hate.

 

[Forever_Jung]

I understand her aesthetic/mythos intellectually, but I don't really feel it in my bones. To me, she is an abstract representation of something I only understand in the abstract. I wonder if it helps to be American and have a more direct experience with the culture that has shaped her music? Either way, she's not my cuppa tea. I find her a bit droning (which I guess suits the feelings she's trying to communicate). Mind you, I enjoy Bob Dylan's "sand and glue" vocals, while most people I know insist he can't sing for shit. Everyone's different.

 

[Thalassa]

What I meant was that liking The Knife (one of my favorite bands as well) would makes it very likely that I would get into LDR (hence many people suggested her). The only time I ever remark on an artists image is if they are being overtly and clearly hostile in some regard. Well, with maybe one exception.

A few years ago when Grimes came to prominence I had a lot of people suggest to me that I'd really get into her as well and I just... I couldn't do it. The music felt very forced and boring. I like repetitive minimalist music, but she took it to a point where I was just bored. Her image though really did bother me. It seemed like she was trying way too hard. Watching her videos I felt like she was just putting things there for the sake of it, a mishmash of unrelated things, and it came out bad. It was to the point where I saw her as annoying and pretentious. Again though, many people seemed to like her, so I thought "...well I guess people like that? To each their own." Grimes does strike me as a hipster, but I don't mean that in a derogatory sense (a hipster is not automatically a bad thing). She's very into advant-garde style and attitude. She seems like a genuine nice person when I have seen interviews of her. Ultimately, it's just not my thing.

I have a hard time being mad at a person unless they are intending to harm someone, break rules/laws without giving a shit, stir up trouble for the sake of, or any of these done naiively but repetively without learning. Musicians almost never do that, so there's not much to hate.

Yeah I like Grimes...and I really responded to Lanas sense of theater. If I were my mom's age I probably would have been more obsessed with artists like David Bowie, and yeah I did like him and Boy George when I was little, so it's an ongoing interest of mine I think is the musician as performance artist. I have also seen Human League live with Howard Jones and Human League was very 80s art school ish....I majored in lit in college and happened to love that whole detective novel, femme fatale, old Hollywood, haunted L.A. thing...and I genuinely like Lanas music, some of it is actually quite upbeat she experimented with different styles, but I can very much respect some one saying hey she's just not my kinda thing.

 

[á´…eparted]

Yeah I like Grimes...and I really responded to Lanas sense of theater. If I were my mom's age I probably would have been more obsessed with artists like David Bowie, and yeah I did like him and Boy George when I was little, so it's an ongoing interest of mine I think is the musician as performance artist. I have also seen Human League live with Howard Jones and Human League was very 80s art school ish....I majored in lit in college and happened to love that whole detective novel, femme fatale, old Hollywood, haunted L.A. thing...and I genuinely like Lanas music, some of it is actually quite upbeat she experimented with different styles, but I can very much respect some one saying hey she's just not my kinda thing.

Being able to relate is a huge thing in art and music. And that's why I never got into those two, I just don't relate on an emotional or intellectual level. I'm an organic chemist so I have limited exposure to literature and the arts. However, my mother is an artist, and she is also obsessed with David Bowie. Her taste influenced me to a slight degree, but her tastes and mine are still different. One artist from her time, Kate Bush (who I recently discovered and very much like; I would have been obsessed if I was young when she came out) she does not care for despite I liking it.

My favorite band iamamiwhoami (if you like The Knife you might like them, but I am not sure)is an obsession to me because of how much I relate and connect to it on pretty much every level. Their entire purpose of a band is just captivating to me. They make a story each album, and each song comes with a video that tells an abstract tale inspired by norse mythology. It's very surreal, abstract, and minimalistic. It's also a perfect complement and match to the music. Musically, it is a near perfect match and harmony of everything I look for in music. I feel like it is a reflection of my internal world and listening sort of lets me externally see it and feel it. It's quite fulfilling.

This whole discussion really just highlights the idea that one need to focus on the important part of what matters, and to stay focused on the discussion. Meaning if you don't like music, then that's fine. When you disike a band for abstract and hard-to-prove statements, you're just going to have people become upset. It's easy to get distracted.

 

[Thalassa]

I never claimed to be any authority on Lana del Rey's music like I've probably heard 4 songs of hers. I've read interviews though, and I feel like you're putting way more thought into this than she is.

Um whatever. She majored in Metaphysics and wrote a short film called Tropico along with the Paradise EP. im pretty certain she knows exactly what she's doing and if you knew anything she did as Lizzy Grant you would probably feel ridiculous for saying these weren't her ideas. You don't know what you even speak of. It's like you didn't read a novel but swear your literary analysis should get an A. If you don't like her four songs you heard fine, but stop saying dumb shit like you even.know her work. That's what bothers me.

I just hope you understand that most of hip hop and rap is also stylistic theater, and that even "authentic" singers like Kurt Cobain had stylists and did theater (for example smashing guitars like Jimmy Hendrix) ...Lizzy/Lana is a real artist and it aggravates me when she doesn't get the respect she deserves. I don't know if you understand what it's like to study one particular writer or painters or musicians ideas as a whole and feel a sense of connection to it, and that's why you think your pretentious adolescent dismissal of Lana del Rey is perfectly ok, because in your head, she's just like Milli Vanilli amirite? Well your intuition failed you and you jumped to incorrect conclusions based on popular gossip, and I am correcting not only you, but the others who do it.

 

[chickpea]

oh, i thought i was bullshitting on an internet forum. i didn't realize i'd be recieving a grade for this. i would have worked harder on my thesis statement.

you are aware most of her fanbase consists of pretentious adolescents though?

 

[Thalassa]

Chickpea you got yourself into this by claiming her ideas aren't her own and claiming she's fabricated, and no actually you are wrong, Lana del Rey actually sells just as many albums in the 60 year old range as the thirteen year old range, and she largely appeals to Millennials who are now in their twenties and thirties. You just can't let your irrational negging go, you can't admit you don't know how authentic or complex her work is because it's just easier for you to post dated SNL memes. You got yourself into this by not being able to just say she isn't your cup of tea, no you have to make it into some faux hipster cause, so as someone actually educated about her music and how popular music in general works, im telling you, I have to show you how misguided it is. You are definitely bullshitting because really nothing you say is based on real information, except that you don't like four songs out of about fifty.

 

[Beorn]

Oh ladies, pleasant and demure
Sallow-cheeked and sure
I can see your undies

 

[Thalassa]

I just wonder if she likes Kid Cudi...same producer worked on Born to Die. I really should put some unreleased Lizzy Grant stuff here as well as Tropico just to show the artistic consistency of her work, outside a change of wardrobe.

And Ultraviolence is totally going to be nominated for album of the year.

I just get amazed at the naivete of music fans attacking Lana del Rey as some symbolic red herring, never mind that Elton John changed his name, Madonna went through constant make overs (her earliest incarnation eerily resembling Andy Warhols "product" Edie Sedgwick), that Kurt Cobain didn't always pick out his own clothing, and Rick Rubins has polished the vast majority of musicians respected by the general public, from Black Sabbath to the Beastie Boys...of all the people, why precisely was Lana picked to be the martyr of Gen Y delusions about performers??? An album reviewer from MuuMuse called it one of the most absurd cases of cyber bullying he had seen, in 2012. Idiotic hivemind.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

 

[Bush]

Checked her out. Not bad.

I can't imagine what all the hate's about.

When I evaluate the music, I evaluate the music. Is the music good? That's what matters to me. I don't care about the gossip or politicking, the artists' personal lives, how much technical talent they have (!), or even how good they are live (unless I'm listening to them live, of course). If they pull it off, then they pull it off.

'course, if I'm a die-hard fan of an artist (or am otherwise not apathetic), I'll also end up evaluating the other stuff.

 

[Thalassa]

[MENTION=22264]jscrothers[/MENTION]

Thank you. This all mainly started with a website called Hipster Runoff. The assessment of LDR is largely ungrounded in the stark reality of the music industry I described in an earlier post, as well as also being strangely removed from any real knowledge of Lana as an artist. That's what pretentious means. That's what a poseur is. A nobody who parrots and copy cats whilst pretending to have more knowledge (or talent or social importance) than they actually have. These people should be embarrassed of themselves, especially as adults who live in a culture where bullying is such a problem.

The problem is not disliking her music or style, but the vicious trend of talking shit about her, and also harassing her fans, like it gives them street cred or hipster badges. It's even worse because of Lanas particular work bearing very little resemblance to the Katy Perry dance pop she gets lumped in with.

Nothing like fakes making fun of a fake, and people who know very little about music pretending to be music critics.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Never criticize a Fi user's favorite musician is the lesson I have learned today.

 

[Thalassa]

Never criticize a Fi user's favorite musician is the lesson I have learned today.

Im criticizing the phenomenon as well as defending my own interest...I have also defended Katy Perry in the past more mildly.

It gives me the creeps that the same people who praise Emile Haynie for working with Kid Cudi and Eminem trash Lana del Rey, who as a matter of fact, had severe stage fright, thus the awkward SNL performance...it's like vultures descending on a fresh kill. If that's cool I would rather be "lame."