The Merit of Lana Del Rey

[Stephano]

What I think of this thread:

 

[Nicodemus]

What I think of this thread:

Another parallel: He is now working in the 'adult industry'.

 

[skylights]

I think she's gorgeous, and stylish, and I like some of her songs. That's kind of how far my opinion goes on her. I know she references a lot of history and pop culture, which I appreciate, but it's often stuff I've never taken much interest in. It's weird to me that people seem to have very strong opinions of her. I think she sort of becomes representative of a lot of things without meaning to (or maybe she is meaning to). Sx-dom for sure... Very Se/Ni. Somehow channels depth and shallowness at the same time.

 

[Guy V. Malaxia]

I tried really hard to get into Ultraviolence, but to no avail. A notable hook and melody is essential for me to like something, and all of it kind of blurred together in one monotonous run.

I'll look to other sources to add hipster cred to my music collection.

 

[Thalassa]

What I think of this thread:

It's become ridiculous though, even Eminem has recently disappointed me in his obvious decline in mental health, by threatening to punch her in the face in one of his raps in order to save his waning popularity by saying something shocking about someone who is currently bigger in the music industry than he is. It makes it triple disturbing that he's a 42 year old man still condoning violence towards women in his raps (when I had recently praised him for more mature works like Beautiful, Not Afraid, and When I'm Gone) and that Lana was a former fan who openly called him a genius. Something is ugly about the way people use hating her as a meme. Don't like her music, fine, I can accept that, my own sister doesn't like her music (but apparently my mom does?) But turning her into a trendy fuck THING to be mocked, to fit in with the crowd, is lame and childish, almost as sick as mocking Britney Spears for being mentally ill, and Eminem has lost any future purchases from me, I was one of his biggest fans.

 

[Thalassa]

She's a completely uninteresting doll designed and reared by the American music industry. She is to Florence and the Machine what Step It Up is to 2001.

She's nothing like Florence and the Machine (who I also admire but don't relate to her as strongly)...London Grammar is more similar to Florence, who I respect as well.

I have noticed most people who despise her don't acknowledge that she sounds almost exactly the same live (which means she has talent and isn't a music industry doll, unlike many people who sound atrocious outside the studio) and are unaware she has five (5) albums and a short film. She's a musician.

 

[Riva]

Is it totally uncool that I don't know who this person is?

I am like an old man when it comes to current musicians.

I hope I haven't come to that age where people stop enjoying or listening or trying out to new music. Old people never seem to grow a liking to listen to modern music I have noticed.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Cat Power is cool and Adele likely has the best voice, and like you said to each their own. My ex and I both listened to Bjork and PJ Harvey, but Tori bothered him, like you, he just couldn't get into it. He was a punk baby, I was New Wave toddler, but we agreed on Nirvana, the White Stripes, Nick Cave and Interpol.

It's unnecessary to agree on all music tastes. I just get bothered when one of my favorite musicians are blatantly disrespected, and not even for musical reasons...or like what I said about Madonna...hey how come nobody is saying oh Madonna trying to look like Marilyn Monroe and Edie Sedgwick, singing about using men for money, being fabulous, succeeding, and raunchy sex to a polished pop beat...It's kind of like duh who do they think is one of Lana del Reys influences? She's an 80s baby too, the older wave of Gen Y...a lot of the arguments I hear outside of "I just don't like her music" are so irrational.

PJ Harvey is very good.

 

[Thalassa]

She's a completely uninteresting doll designed and reared by the American music industry. She is to Florence and the Machine what Step It Up is to 2001.

Oh btw. ..i don't think you are aware of things like this...

or have explored her older or unreleased material (the Lizzy Grant album, which even Pitchfork originally lauded, unreleased stuff on things like the God Bless America mixed tape), I think it's critical when making such a harsh judgment of a person that you are actually aware of things like their entire body of work and not one or two singles.

I have noticed time and again one of the hallmarks of the 21st century, or maybe of Gen X and Y, is talking about things people know absolutely nothing about with a critical, snooty air that reeks of the original definition of sophistry.

And I am guessing you have also never listened to Ultraviolence.

 

[Thalassa]

Another parallel: He is now working in the 'adult industry'.

Why? ....are you a fan of his work?

Here's my thing, and I said this in the people are people thread, there's a hint of misogynistic undertones to the way famous women are attacked (Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, Amanda Bynes, Lana del Rey) and what makes it particularly sick is the presence of obvious vulnerability, making them easy targets. Amanda Bynes is severely mentally ill, Britney Spears bipolar, Miley Cyrus is clearly trying to destroy herself, and Lana del Rey is a recovered alcoholic who cries on stage because sometimes she feels her fans care more about her than she cares about herself and she's triggered to drink by the unfair unfounded criticism that attempts to flay her alive. It's DISGUSTING, especially since all of these women are talented in some way, being excellent performers of various kinds. I can't figure out why people hate them and not the people running the music industry.

I also am keen to the idea of women who have symptoms of cluster B personality disorders being exploited for their intense sexuality and emotional instability, Marilyn Monroe being an excellent example of this. I'm really disturbed by all of it, particularly since we are supposed to be living in this enlightened post feminist society.

 

[á´…eparted]

I can't figure out why people hate them

It doesn't make it right at all, and it's certainly not rational, but people will hate other people for completely intangible unexplainable reasons. Sometimes, there is no reason at all. They just hate them. It's quite common. And sadly human nature. I'm sure we've all experienced people like that before, where you just hate someone for seemingly no reason at all.

 

[Thalassa]

It doesn't make it right at all, and it's certainly not rational, but people will hate other people for completely intangible unexplainable reasons. Sometimes, there is no reason at all. They just hate them. It's quite common. And sadly human nature. I'm sure we've all experienced people like that before, where you just hate someone for seemingly no reason at all.

I think there are reasons, though. Like a latent mass Madonna Whore complex, where sexual women are more readily attacked, why is a feminist supposed to not use her sexuality at all or be androgynous? Why can't a woman be respected for being either one, as men usually are. I think it's also similar to a phenomenon where low wage workers bear the brunt for the sins of larger corporation or big government. In addition to that, our society currently derides the vulnerable and emotionally obvious, like if you aren't cool enough not to care, you're attacked and othered. Our society has a really archaic attitude towards mental illness as well, sometimes I question, is this actually mental illness, or are sensitive people just driven to nervous breakdowns by the modern world. The "artistic temperament" is classically viewed as tempestuous, and now it's made to be pathological.

I can articulate to you exactly why I can't stand Lorde, and it's because she's the worst kind of feminist, the self righteous bitch who tears down other women for choosing to express their sexuality.

Still, I hesitate to attack Lorde in the manner that I observe people trashing Lana del Rey, even though Lorde also dances awkwardly and songs of her like Million Dollar Bills are heinous, and she is actually a hypocrite, deriding the music industry even while benefitting from it as a millionaire before the age of eighteen, but people act like she's some kind of....heroine, lol. I don't see where she's any more talented than Lana, and if people judge Lana for selling out, why not also hate Eminem, Madonna, Prince, and Lorde? Lana wasn't born Lana, but Kid Cudi also wasn't born Kid Cudi.

Hate the music if you do, but making an example of Lana del Rey is a fallacious argument, since she can sing and sounds the same live, is actually not an industry creation and there's tangible proof, and as far as image or name change actually hasn't done anything differently than David Bowie.

 

[Nicodemus]

Why? ....are you a fan of his work?

No... but he looks a lot better with facial hair.

 

[chickpea]

i don't hate lana del rey, i just think she kinda sucks. but i rarely have to hear about her anymore, so who cares. her overhyped period followed by the backlash was an entertaining pop culture moment.

i love amanda bynes and miley and hope the best for them

 

[Thalassa]

i don't hate lana del rey, i just think she kinda sucks. but i rarely have to hear about her anymore, so who cares. her overhyped period followed by the backlash was an entertaining pop culture moment.

i love amanda bynes and miley and hope the best for them

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She's like the face that launched a thousand ships. Too bad it took so much work to become a swan.

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[laterlazer]

Lol people getting so defensive and offensive about music, I don't get it. You can like what you like, hate what you hate. Either way no need to shove it in someone's face.

 

[Raffaella]

"I beat up a Lana Del Rey fan and I call that Ultraviolence"

She's very calculating, she's aware of the controversies incited and feigns innocence and I think that dishonesty is what perturbs people to the point of discussing her image to death. I actually love her and it was only after listening to Ultraviolence that I considered myself a fan. Ultraviolence flows better than Born To Die which feels like an unrelated amalgamation of songs. Alone they're great but as an album, awkward. I think she was too focused on the themes that she's packed everything in one album without really tying it all together but it showed she had potential and that she lived up to the hype. I'm excited for Honeymoon.

 

[Cellmold]

This thread might have been quietly going about it's business...but can't we all relax and eat Lambchop?

I don't know why I even like this song, the lyrics are like schizophrenia, the singing is often hard to hear and the falsetto is scratchy...yet it's like...music just bypasses my rational and gets straight to hugging on my emotions.

Gaw I wonder how that happens? But hey don't follow me......

 

[Puffypolma]

 

[Thalassa]

She's very calculating, she's aware of the controversies incited and feigns innocence and I think that dishonesty is what perturbs people to the point of discussing her image to death. I actually love her and it was only after listening to Ultraviolence that I considered myself a fan. Ultraviolence flows better than Born To Die which feels like an unrelated amalgamation of songs. Alone they're great but as an album, awkward. I think she was too focused on the themes that she's packed everything in one album without really tying it all together but it showed she had potential and that she lived up to the hype. I'm excited for Honeymoon.

I'm not sure what you mean by "feigning innocence." She just refuses to be called a role model. I think she's very calculating, and if she didn't have that sort of intelligence she wouldn't even be able to as effectively communicate her ideas and concepts, but I don't think she's ever denied that it is "controversial" to talk about adult concepts the way she does in a politically correct world. However if people are too uneducated or stupid to understand what Lolita is actually about, etc...how is that her fault. There's this bizarre pressure on performers and artists to somehow politically conform, and I've noticed she actively sidesteps overt political statements about feminism, her vegetarianism and environmental work, her charity work with alcoholics, even her position on a presidential candidate (beyond blocking some one on Twitter for making a meme of her with an Make America Great Again hat on, and claiming she'd sing the National Anthem for Donald Trump). Lana takes responsibility for her art and even for the feelings of her fans, but I don't see how she's "feigned innocence" just because she refused to overtly politicize her art (that obviously deals with heavy adult subjects).

Born to Die is basically what happened when some big music producers who worked with artists like Eminem reviewed and polished a ton of material she had made over the course of 5-7 years. She even said that the album feels older to it because so much of it was written before it was released.

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Lol people getting so defensive and offensive about music, I don't get it. You can like what you like, hate what you hate. Either way no need to shove it in someone's face.

It's because some idiots go out of their way to hate on her. It's trolling, basically. There's a difference between saying I don't like Lana del Rey or even I hate her music, and trolling fans.