The Impeachment Thread

[Jaguar]

.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

So, did this guy get booted out of office or what?

 

[Maou]

So, did this guy get booted out of office or what?

No, because not only was it over conflated by the democrats, he not commit any crimes. It was all a political scam by the opposition.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

No, because not only was it over conflated by the democrats, he not commit any crimes. It was all a political scam by the opposition.

Pity.

I thought they had him for real this time.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

By Senator Sherrod Brown, in New York Times: In Private, Republicans Admit They Acquitted Trump Out of Fear

Of course, the Republican senators who have covered for Mr. Trump love what he delivers for them. But Vice President Mike Pence would give them the same judges, the same tax cuts, the same attacks on workers’ rights and the environment. So that’s not really the reason for their united chorus of “not guilty.”

For the stay-in-office-at-all-cost representatives and senators, fear is the motivator. They are afraid that Mr. Trump might give them a nickname like “Low Energy Jeb” and “Lyin’ Ted,” or that he might tweet about their disloyalty. Or — worst of all — that he might come to their state to campaign against them in the Republican primary. They worry:

“Will the hosts on Fox attack me?”

“Will the mouthpieces on talk radio go after me?”

“Will the Twitter trolls turn their followers against me?”

My colleagues know they all just might. There’s an old Russian proverb: The tallest blade of grass is the first cut by the scythe. In private, many of my colleagues agree that the president is reckless and unfit. They admit his lies. And they acknowledge what he did was wrong. They know this president has done things Richard Nixon never did. And they know that more damning evidence is likely to come out.

So watching the mental contortions they perform to justify their votes is painful to behold: They claim that calling witnesses would have meant a never-ending trial. They tell us they’ve made up their minds, so why would we need new evidence? They say to convict this president now would lead to the impeachment of every future president — as if every president will try to sell our national security to the highest bidder.

I have asked some of them, “If the Senate votes to acquit, what will you do to keep this president from getting worse?” Their responses have been shrugs and sheepish looks.

They stop short of explicitly saying that they are afraid. We all want to think that we always stand up for right and fight against wrong. But history does not look kindly on politicians who cannot fathom a fate worse than losing an upcoming election. They might claim fealty to their cause — those tax cuts — but often it’s a simple attachment to power that keeps them captured.​

It's easy to write this off as being written by a Democrat Senator. But the fact of the matter is that *a lot* of retired/retiring GOP Senators have spoken out about Trump. And Trump does start smearing someone's character on Twitter as soon as they don't fall in line - no matter the profession, he even smears Fox news when they report something he doesn't like.

It took him what, a couple hours to start smearing Romney today? Along with Jr and Conway.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

It is very difficult to believe anyone really thought Trump would be removed from office, especially after a highly partisan process in the House. It just was never going to happen, no matter the hopes and dreams of Trump haters.

There was a woman in my office who freaked out this afternoon, who is largely ignorant of history and politics and just was so certain he would be removed. Reality doesn't work that way.

Of course, if the Democrats had been serious, they would have conducted themselves very differently in the House, using the established process, including allowing the president's attorneys to call witnesses and cross examine witnesses.

Of course, just by a numbers game, it was doomed to failure. At least the Clinton impeachment had bipartisan support in the House. It was always a longshot, even then, as Senators don't vote against their party on impeachment, well, except Willard.

The House Democrats knew that, so they knew with certainty that they would not succeed with removing Trump. As such, this was never about removing Trump. It was merely a political ploy, nothing more. They played millions of Trump haters for suckers.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It is very difficult to believe anyone really thought Trump would be removed from office, especially after a highly partisan process in the House. It just was never going to happen, no matter the hopes and dreams of Trump haters.

There was a woman in my office who freaked out this afternoon, who is largely ignorant of history and politics and just was so certain he would be removed. Reality doesn't work that way.

Of course, if the Democrats had been serious, they would have conducted themselves very differently in the House, using the established process, including allowing the president's attorneys to call witnesses and cross examine witnesses.

I'm no expert on parliamentary procedure, but I truly believe there was no way they could have approached this where they would have gotten anything but a few Republicans on board.

Republicans love a cult of personality. At the moment, it's Trump, but before that, it was Dubya. It will take the bottom to seriously fall out like at the end of Dubya's second term for the Republicans to turn on them. It's not politically advantageous for them to do otherwise.

I'm sure you're not wrong in the sense that the Democrats knew that there was no way this could end in his removal. That's probably why the big argument was about witnesses, because they thought there was a snowball's chance in hell removal would happen. I don't think there's any way they could have played this that would have ended in his removal, though. Republicans weren't going to get on board, and that's just the way it was. We can go on and on about the sacred trust that comes with being a member of the United States Senate and how they owe it to the American people, but um, I don't think it's ever really worked that way.

At least now, Democratic voters are angry at the Republican Senators for the way they conducted themselves, and not angry at the Democratic house for not moving to impeach (which was an anger that was simmering since 2018). So, yes, it did benefit them to impeach even if it wasn't going to end in him getting removed.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I'm no expert on parliamentary procedure, but I truly believe there was no way they could have approached this where they would have gotten anything but a few Republicans on board.

Republicans love a cult of personality. At the moment, it's Trump, but before that, it was Dubya. It will take the bottom to seriously fall out like at the end of Dubya's second term for the Republicans to turn on them. It's not politically advantageous for them to do otherwise.

Pot meet kettle. Most people love a cult of personality. I have seen no greater cult of personality than that which backed Obama. Lol, he was given the Nobel Peace Prize for getting elected......

But, like most actual politics, it was a pure power politics, just like not a single Democratic Senator voted to remove Clinton.....

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Pot meet kettle. Most people love a cult of personality. I have seen no greater cult of personality than that which backed Obama. Lol, he was given the Nobel Peace Prize for getting elected......

But, like most actual politics, it was a pure power politics, just like not a single Democratic Senator voted to remove Clinton.....

Yes, that did exist for the first two years he was in office. It leveled off significantly after that when it became apparent to everyone that change was just more business as usual.

The Trump cult is much more persistent; they're not holding him to "building a wall and making Mexico pay for it" the way Obama supporters held Obama to things like closing Guantanamo.

They both had cults of personalities, but one eventually succumbed to reality, and the other one continues to persist in delusions.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I never heard any Obama voter defend the fact that Gitmo stayed in operation by saying things like "oh, he was being metaphorical.... he was talking about closing the metaphorical Guantanamo in all of our souls."

 

[highlander]

Yes, that did exist for the first two years he was in office. It leveled off significantly after that when it became apparent to everyone that change was just more business as usual.

The Trump cult is much more persistent; they're not holding him to "building a wall and making Mexico pay for it" the way Obama supporters held Obama to things like closing Guantanamo.

They both had cults of personalities, but one eventually succumbed to reality, and the other one continues to persist in delusions.

I hated Obama at first but grew to admire him with what he did during the massive recession we had and I realized how smart he was and how inspiring he was to the country. On the flip side, I thought him a pushover on the international stage which wasn't helpful. He added to debt with reason for the most part. In addition to many obvious sins, Trump added to our debt for no apparent reason other than create an allusion of prosperity .

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I hated Obama at first but grew to admire him with what he did during the massive recession we had and I realized how smart he was and how inspiring he was to the country. On the flip side, I thought him a pushover on the international stage which wasn't helpful. He added to debt with reason for the most part. In addition to many obvious sins, Trump added to our debt for no apparent reason other than create an allusion of prosperity .

Personally, I thought the way he handled Iran made a lot of sense, and it's regrettable that Trump flushed that down the toilet. Other aspects of foreign policy I'm not sure of.

I just remember lots of people being outraged at Obama for not pushing for a public option with regards to health care and things like that. Sure, there was a segment that would defend him no matter what he did, but it was nowhere near the size and influence of the MAGA types today.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I wish McCain and Goldwater had been alive to join Romney in his vote.

 

[Totenkindly]

..It's easy to write this off as being written by a Democrat Senator. But the fact of the matter is that *a lot* of retired/retiring GOP Senators have spoken out about Trump. And Trump does start smearing someone's character on Twitter as soon as they don't fall in line - no matter the profession, he even smears Fox news when they report something he doesn't like.

It took him what, a couple hours to start smearing Romney today? Along with Jr and Conway.

Yeah, the reality of that -- and that Trump's base is all about Trump, not about the rest of the GOP -- that gives credibility to this fear. I'm kind of surprised Doug Jones and other Dems in red states didn't waver.

The Pence factor is another. Pence is much more controlled AND would give them all the same policy initiatives that Trump is (bizarrely, because he really doesn't care about any of them on a personal level himself) offering up to shore up his base. It would seem like a win-win to use this as an excuse to ditch Trump and get a much more stable guy who reflects their values honestly in place.

Except Trump is the one who owns the base. So they're scared of losing the base. It's the most probable case.

 

[anticlimatic]

They both had cults of personalities, but one eventually succumbed to reality, and the other one continues to persist in delusions.

Oh, is the delusion that Obama was a great president over? That's a relief.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Oh, is the delusion that Obama was a great president over? That's a relief.

Have you read any of my posts?

I was never really smitten by him to begin with, although I voted for him twice. This is something I've said many times. Even during primary season, I thought he was too much of a centrist. He placed a lot of emphasis on being a uniter and bipartisanship, and where did that get him? It's the same reason I'm not a Buttigieg supporter (better him than a mummy like Biden, though).

I don't really see any good reason to view working across the aisle( with people who want to put kids in cages) as an end in itself. If it helps get what you want or create a true "win-win" scenario, then sure, it's fine.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Anyone hearing Trump's live address right now? What a whiny shit.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Mitty Romney is a slimy piece of shit that is too massive to flush. I laughed when I heard that he did this based on his convictions. He is utterly without a moral compass and is not capable of having convictions. This was more of a look-at-me, aren't-I-cute moment.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

As soon as Romney found out that congress was going to impeach Trump, before there was a trial, Romney was on board. Romney is still holding a grudge over Trump talking smack about him. Romney isn't used to hearing the truth about himself and he couldn't take it.

 

[Nicodemus]

Poor Ukraine. I expect the rape will resume now that Trump has been declared above the law.