The GOD Thread~

[Coriolis]

I have come to believe that there is only one divine entity, that encompasses male and female, and any other human distinction imaginable, and of course transcends all that is human as well. The world's religions are just so many ways to try to relate to that divinity, and our many Gods and Goddesses just so many names for him/her. It is not wrong to relate to God primarily through one of these ways, as long as we do not deny the validity of someone else relating in another way. How we relate will also change through our lives, as we grow and what we need evolves.

I don't have any religious views, I'm not even sure the bible is true, I do have an intuitive realization of god though.

You don't need to believe the Bible to experience faith or follow a religion; and you don't need to follow an organized religion to develop your own spirituality. Ultimately, it is that intuitive realization that is paramount. All the writings and rituals, teachings and traditions can at most serve as cross-checks and guides along the way. There is no substitute for what you honestly believe inside, and no one can walk your path for you.

There had been changes in my spirituality though ever since, I no longer believe the religion I grew up with, and I feel I have progressed in my spiritual knowledge. I haven't done the last part of what you said though. I don't know what that means.

My situation was far from dire enough to suggest suicide, but I had a similar experience of moving on from my childhood religion, and the same feeling of having progressed spiritually through the experience. For me, it wasn't hearing a voice, but running across a series of books, one by one.

I think the urge to commit suicide is just a strong manifestation that we are ready to die to our old life. Instead of having a physical death, we need a psychical death and a spiritual rebirth.

This is a good way of putting it. Religions that believe in reincarnation sometimes teach that suicide is just a way of avoiding whatever lessons this life has to teach you. If you don't work through the lesson in this life, you will see it again in the next. Sort of a metaphysical analog of history repeating itself.

Well my problem with the whole Jesus, and bible thing is the bible is 50% violence, god acts like Zeus, and war, and the other is ok, but that 50% I cannot accept.

I make a distinction between Jesus and most of what transpires in the Old Testament. This is where most of the violence and Zeus-like behavior is. Jesus seems to have been a remarkable historic person who reached out to the marginalized and truly demonstrated the "Kingdom of God on Earth" in the best sense. Early followers, however, felt the need to co-opt both the Old Testament Messianic traditions as well as the divinity/virgin birth/resurrection myths of contemporary religions for Jesus, perhaps simply to promote his teachings.

When I read the Bible, especially the OT, I see much of it as an illustration of what NOT to do, how NOT to live. Indeed, Jesus himself preached against many of these traditions, like not healing on the Sabbath or not associating with certain groups. The Bible is full of great stories, poetry, prayers, and especially the history of how one group of people saw their place in the world and the divine. Trying to read too much into it, however, is counterproductive.

 

[inventor]

I have come to believe that there is only one divine entity, that encompasses male and female, and any other human distinction imaginable, and of course transcends all that is human as well. The world's religions are just so many ways to try to relate to that divinity, and our many Gods and Goddesses just so many names for him/her. It is not wrong to relate to God primarily through one of these ways, as long as we do not deny the validity of someone else relating in another way. How we relate will also change through our lives, as we grow and what we need evolves.


You don't need to believe the Bible to experience faith or follow a religion; and you don't need to follow an organized religion to develop your own spirituality. Ultimately, it is that intuitive realization that is paramount. All the writings and rituals, teachings and traditions can at most serve as cross-checks and guides along the way. There is no substitute for what you honestly believe inside, and no one can walk your path for you.


My situation was far from dire enough to suggest suicide, but I had a similar experience of moving on from my childhood religion, and the same feeling of having progressed spiritually through the experience. For me, it wasn't hearing a voice, but running across a series of books, one by one.


This is a good way of putting it. Religions that believe in reincarnation sometimes teach that suicide is just a way of avoiding whatever lessons this life has to teach you. If you don't work through the lesson in this life, you will see it again in the next. Sort of a metaphysical analog of history repeating itself.

I was raised Jehovah's Witness, and I just couldn't accept it anymore at 23. I was discovering so much things, mediation, and direct contact with god through prayer, and they denied all those things. Technically I'm still a member, but I'm inactive.

Your idea of life lessons was interesting. Some days (most days) I don't want think about it. What do I need to learn you know?

 

[inventor]

I make a distinction between Jesus and most of what transpires in the Old Testament. This is where most of the violence and Zeus-like behavior is. Jesus seems to have been a remarkable historic person who reached out to the marginalized and truly demonstrated the "Kingdom of God on Earth" in the best sense. Early followers, however, felt the need to co-opt both the Old Testament Messianic traditions as well as the divinity/virgin birth/resurrection myths of contemporary religions for Jesus, perhaps simply to promote his teachings.

When I read the Bible, especially the OT, I see much of it as an illustration of what NOT to do, how NOT to live. Indeed, Jesus himself preached against many of these traditions, like not healing on the Sabbath or not associating with certain groups. The Bible is full of great stories, poetry, prayers, and especially the history of how one group of people saw their place in the world and the divine. Trying to read too much into it, however, is counterproductive.

Jesus though seemed to support the OT though in many ways, and implied they were from god. I do agree the bible is a helpful spiritual text though. The gospels, and the book of job are my favorite.

 

[Mole]

Are you holding back?

My considered position is that God is unlikely to exist so we can relax and enjoy life.

 

[inventor]

My considered position is that God is unlikely to exist so we can stop worrying and enjoy life.

Well you can enjoy life as well as believe in god.

 

[inventor]

So your post is about people, not God.

Thanks for making me read that same post for probably the fourth time now.

This is my biggest pet peeve with atheists in these arguments because when they talk about god it's always - god = monotheistic religious views.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

My considered position is that God is unlikely to exist so we can relax and enjoy life.

I enjoy pondering the existence of God. I feel compelled to do so.

This is my biggest pet peeve with atheists in these arguments because when they talk about god it's always - god = monotheistic religious views.

Aye, I agree.

 

[Coriolis]

Jesus though seemed to support the OT though in many ways, and implied they were from god. I do agree the bible is a helpful spiritual text though. The gospels, and the book of job are my favorite.

Jesus was a Jew, so the OT was his heritage. He used it to reach and relate to the people of his day. He wanted to free people from its constraints that were not longer useful, or had been taken too far, but I'm not sure he wanted it swept entirely away. It is a bit like Islam and Bahai faith; one was rooted in but then went beyond the other.

 

[inventor]

Jesus was a Jew, so the OT was his heritage. He used it to reach and relate to the people of his day. He wanted to free people from its constraints that were not longer useful, or had been taken too far, but I'm not sure he wanted it swept entirely away. It is a bit like Islam and Bahai faith; one was rooted in but then went beyond the other.

Makes sense. I've read the bible all the way one time. But haven't read it in awhile, want to read the Upanishads first then come back to it.

 

[Mole]

This is my biggest pet peeve with atheists in these arguments because when they talk about god it's always - god = monotheistic religious views.

Well, the Christians have it both ways. They are mono theists yet they have three Gods.

Christians worship the Trinity: three Gods in one.

 

[inventor]

Well, the Christians have it both ways. They are mono theists yet they have three Gods.

Christians worship the Trinity: three Gods in one.

Yes, I never said they didn't.

Fyi not all Christians believe in a Trinity

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Well, the Christians have it both ways. They are mono theists yet they have three Gods.

Christians worship the Trinity: three Gods in one.

You're still looking at the idea of God through the filter of dogmatic religious systems.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I have come to believe that there is only one divine entity, that encompasses male and female, and any other human distinction imaginable, and of course transcends all that is human as well. The world's religions are just so many ways to try to relate to that divinity, and our many Gods and Goddesses just so many names for him/her. It is not wrong to relate to God primarily through one of these ways, as long as we do not deny the validity of someone else relating in another way. How we relate will also change through our lives, as we grow and what we need evolves.

THANK YOU. I want to get this printed on cards to hand out whenever this topic comes up. I believe exactly as you do, and yet participate in Catholic services, which many people find loony. It's simply the way I was raised to relate to God, and so it's where I feel the divine.

On a related topic, I hate when people hold religion against God. For example, "I don't believe in God because people do (insert offensive act) in his name." It's like saying "I don't believe in charity because the Salvation Army hates gays". Humans are imperfect, and that means that their endeavors will be imperfect, even those that are truly good. Everyone sins, and that fact is not an argument against God, or even against the concept of religion.

 

[inventor]

On a related topic, I hate when people hold religion against God. For example, "I don't believe in God because people do (insert offensive act) in his name." It's like saying "I don't believe in charity because the Salvation Army hates gays".

Good analogy.

 

[Coriolis]

THANK YOU. I want to get this printed on cards to hand out whenever this topic comes up. I believe exactly as you do, and yet participate in Catholic services, which many people find loony. It's simply the way I was raised to relate to God, and so it's where I feel the divine.

I often give people - especially kids - a copy of "The Blind Men and the Elephant".

Interesting. Catholicism is the faith I gave up. I do feel the divine in much of the aesthetics of Catholicism - artwork, and the older traditional music and ritual. I also appreciate their charity, as exemplified encouragingly by the new pope. Many of the Catholics I know, however, are disappointingly narrowminded and dogmatic: believe theirs is the only correct religion, and won't so much as read anything written by a non-Catholic. (I've a mind to refer some of them to Andrew Greeley.)

On a related topic, I hate when people hold religion against God. For example, "I don't believe in God because people do (insert offensive act) in his name." It's like saying "I don't believe in charity because the Salvation Army hates gays". Humans are imperfect, and that means that their endeavors will be imperfect, even those that are truly good. Everyone sins, and that fact is not an argument against God, or even against the concept of religion.

Exactly. I find myself saying similar things in discussions of Islam as of late.

 

[inventor]

I often give people - especially kids - a copy of "The Blind Men and the Elephant".

.

That's what has changed my views a lot.

 

[Mole]

You're still looking at the idea of God through the filter of dogmatic religious systems.

Religion is revealed to us by God. So we only know God by revelation. So religions have dogma by necessity.

If you don't accept revelation then you are thrown back onto direct mystical experience of God.

And when narsissists publishing selfies tell me they have direct mystical experience of God, I say, big claims require big evidence. But the evidence is never in evidence.

 

[Mole]

I don't believe in charity because the Salvation Army hates gays.

Just yesterday we heard from the victims of the Salvation Army in our Royal Commission into Child Abuse.

And we heard how the Salvation Army sexually abused children in their care, and lent these same children out to pedophiles to abuse further.

 

[Mole]

Yes, I never said they didn't.

Fyi not all Christians believe in a Trinity

The Trinity is an article of faith of Christianity. Those who don't subscribe to the Trinity are not Christians. They are Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God, International and the United Church of God.

 

[WALMART]

This album rocks.

Still awaiting,

I