The GOD Thread~

[garbage]

I find myself wanting to ask "Source?" over and over again.

I know the low-hanging sarcastic answer, but I'd hope for legit ones.

 

[Octavarium]

Point is, being 'homosexual' is a choice, based on a dysfunctional childhood relationship. Heterosexual is, by nature, how we are made. There is one perfect Divine partner made just for you, and if you decide to pursue and apply your own willfulness in a sexually immoral way, being led by unmet needs, that is your choice! But it is a choice.

We become addicts to various things based on dysfunctional childhood issues as well. How do we deal with these? We eschew them, avoid them, go to support groups to get other struggling people to help us cope with them, and attend therapy to replace them. God can heal us from addictions and actually change us.

It is the same with being homosexual. Sure, you can keep this addiction to something unhealthy, but you won't be as healthy as you would otherwise be if you tried to overcome it, and asked God to help you heal. The fact that gay relationships are so fleeting is another indicator they are not rooted in a divine foundation.

I'm just going to refer you to this article: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/gay-marriage-same-but-different/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Homosexuality is similar to an addiction; it is a way to aberrantly meet unmet needs.

I find myself wanting to ask "Source?" over and over again.

I know the low-hanging sarcastic answer, but I'd hope for legit ones.

Alcoholics and obese people love to point to biology and heredity for their 'source'. And it's really attributed to dysfunction in childhood, and aberrant coping mechanisms.

So why is homosexuality any different?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

You should know that her actual and only reason for believing this bullshit is this: "It resonated with what I know to be true as well."

She is utterly unfazed by evidence other than her own random interpretations, at least some of which clearly point to willful ignorance.

To boot, this was true before she even claimed to be a Christian.

 

[garbage]

Alcoholics and obese people love to point to biology and heredity for their 'source'. And it's really attributed to dysfunction in childhood, and aberrant coping mechanisms.

So why is homosexuality any different?

This is the exact opposite of a source.

Anyway, the point of my post was that anything I'd ask would result in a bunch of needless circle-running-around on all sides. Which is why I didn't bother to ask.

 

[prplchknz]

Alcoholics and obese people love to point to biology and heredity for their 'source'. And it's really attributed to dysfunction in childhood, and aberrant coping mechanisms.

So why is homosexuality any different?

I would say you need help, but I think you're beyond help, honestly

 

[Totenkindly]

Someone needs to study science a little better.

Usually situations are complex, so I find it convenient when religion deems everything a "choice" because then they can ascribe guilt and sin to it in order to manipulate behavior, and levy blame against those who have difficult issues in their lives as well as separate themselves from people who do things they do not approve of. In fact, people with issues can even be blamed for "resisting God" at that point, since if they were truly faithful, they would choose to let God fix them and their problems would simply get resolved and everything would be fine.

This thread has kinda gone where I expected, since it was mistitled as "The GOD thread" and is really again about one poster's personal beliefs about God. Maybe if it were retitled appropriate (or if other views of divinity besides just one could reasonably be discussed), then there wouldn't be so much pushback...

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I would welcome talking about God in other ways.

Everyone seems to be obsessed with homosexuality. I do not even respond to every post about it--only about every third--so this forum must just really need/want to discuss this issue.

 

[Lexicon]

Someone needs to study science a little better.

Usually situations are complex, so I find it convenient when religion deems everything a "choice" because then they can ascribe guilt and sin to it in order to manipulate behavior, and levy blame against those who have difficult issues in their lives as well as separate themselves from people who do things they do not approve of. In fact, people with issues can even be blamed for "resisting God" at that point, since if they were truly faithful, they would choose to let God fix them and their problems would simply get resolved and everything would be fine.

This thread has kinda gone where I expected, since it was mistitled as "The GOD thread" and is really again about one poster's personal beliefs about God. Maybe if it were retitled appropriate (or if other views of divinity besides just one could reasonably be discussed), then there wouldn't be so much pushback...

^
Amen.

 

[Beorn]

Apparently it's helpful to have a fool for a foil.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Point is, being 'homosexual' is a choice, based on a dysfunctional childhood relationship. Heterosexual is, by nature, how we are made. There is one perfect Divine partner made just for you, and if you decide to pursue and apply your own willfulness in a sexually immoral way, being led by unmet needs, that is your choice! But it is a choice.

Okay, two questions then.

1. How do you account for homosexuality in the animal kingdom where interpersonal relationships are not as complex as human ones and sexual relationships are often based on instinct and availability rather than true choice? Does a chicken decide to be gay because of daddy issues? God made animals too, right?

2. If there is one divine partner for everyone, why will every Christian church remarry a widow/widower?

 

[Lexicon]

Okay, two questions then.

1. How do you account for homosexuality in the animal kingdom where interpersonal relationships are not as complex as human ones and sexual relationships are often based on instinct and availability rather than true choice? Does a chicken decide to be gay because of daddy issues? God made animals too, right?

Animals don't have souls, silly.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Animals don't have souls, silly.

I should have remembered that we're not animals.

 

[Lexicon]

I should have remembered that we're not animals.

Circles sure are fun in logic. I'm having a ball reading this thread.

(I don't believe humans have souls, either, actually, as we are indeed, all animals.)


“Eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions god's infinite love.” - Bill Hicks.

 

[Nicodemus]

Apparently it's helpful to have a fool for a foil.

Your side has a lot of them... coincidentally.

 

[Cimarron]

I guess it does seem possible that nurture does have some role in homosexuality but personally I think it likely that genetics has a lot more do do with it than anything else. I recall always liking girls - from the time I was 5 - which is as far back as I can remember. Was that because of how I was raised as a small child? I doubt it.

All relationships are dysfunctional in some way. It's just a matter of degree. No parent is perfect, dysfunctional behaviors that are passed down from generation to generation and there are plain personality differences that exist between parent and child. It would be nice if it were not like that I suppose but it just is.

I have read the references in the Old Testament about homosexuality as well as the references in the New Testament that refer to those Old Testament concepts. Jesus actually never said homosexuality was a sin. Other people did though. For example, there is this:

Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

But then there are also these things.

Leviticus 11:4 “Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.”

Leviticus 11:10 “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.”

Leviticus 11:27 “And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even.”

Leviticus 11:28–29 “These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind, and the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.”

Leviticus 11:13–20 “These are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the osprey, and the vulture, and the kite after his kind; every raven after his kind; and the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, and the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, and the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.”

Leviticus 10:6 “Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people.”

Leviticus 19:19 “Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.”

Leviticus 19:27 “Neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.”

Leviticus 19:19 “Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind.”

Leviticus 5:2 “If a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.”

Leviticus 12:4–5 “And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.”

Yes, I love to remind people of that. When judging someone as a sinner for "being gay," ask oneself: How much of a sin is gay sex? As much of a sin as eating shrimp or lobster, according to God. Same word used to describe both.

 

[gromit]

(I don't believe humans have souls, either, actually, as we are indeed, all animals.)

I don't see why it follows that humans don't have souls just because humans are animals... can't all animals (or even living entities) have souls? I guess everyone will define a soul differently... but I can't see why a dog can't have a soul or a mouse or grasshopper... perhaps slightly different kinds of souls depending on the animal/species...

 

[Lexicon]

I don't see why it follows that humans don't have souls just because humans are animals... can't all animals (or even living entities) have souls? I guess everyone will define a soul differently... but I can't see why a dog can't have a soul or a mouse or grasshopper... perhaps slightly different kinds of souls depending on the animal/species...

That's the point. It doesn't follow, based on the constructs people have illustrated here, I think. I personally do not believe nor do I actively disbelieve in the existence of a soul at all. I don't know, I can't know- so I don't care (I do not follow theism, nor do I buy into concepts associated with theism. For me it's a passive lack of belief vs an active belief of nonexistence, if that makes sense).

The implication that only humans are separate from animals in that context (souls/eternal life/a god's creation/sexuality) seems like bs "we're special snowflake Masters of The Universe" to me. Contradictory, rather. I figure either we all have souls, or we don't. I don't believe I have one.. I love my cat.. but I don't believe he has one, either. But if I do have one, my cat sure does, as well.. sapient or not.

Now I have to wonder if a god would send my kitty to his Hell for mounting a male cat in his adolescent years..

 

[á´…eparted]

I did not say I agree with conversion therapy or not. I have not studied it much. I think any therapy without God is pointless, as He is the source Healer.

Also, therapy is general doesn't seem to be very specific or sensitive, or to be very successful overall. I think, again, that this is because God is usually lacking in typical therapy.

It would take a very very sensitive and specific type of therapy with a sensitive therapist who is a Child of God to help someone realize his or her true romantic potential once a lifetime of childhood hurts had plagued them. I don't think a gay conversion retreat or a self-righteous preacher would effect much good or change over a short period of time. Also, a necessary part of healing is to WANT to change. Fighting the flesh is a very difficult thing. Probably the most difficult thing a Christian faces.

So, I give no credit to discredited conversion therapies to begin with.

Once again, I have no reason to take your stances based off god seriously, because the basis of one is not provable or supportable.

Also, everything you are saying here is your opinion. Which, is against what is factually known. Essentially what you're saying here is that the ENTIRE field of psychology is bunk. There is mountains, upon mountains of data to validate the field. So, your "opinions" here, are completely, unequivocally wrong. There is not a single thing to support them.

So, are you going to sit here, and still reject what I (and others) are saying. Because if you do, then you're a [insult removed].

Point is, being 'homosexual' is a choice, based on a dysfunctional childhood relationship. Heterosexual is, by nature, how we are made. There is one perfect Divine partner made just for you, and if you decide to pursue and apply your own willfulness in a sexually immoral way, being led by unmet needs, that is your choice! But it is a choice.

We become addicts to various things based on dysfunctional childhood issues as well. How do we deal with these? We eschew them, avoid them, go to support groups to get other struggling people to help us cope with them, and attend therapy to replace them. God can heal us from addictions and actually change us.

It is the same with being homosexual. Sure, you can keep this addiction to something unhealthy, but you won't be as healthy as you would otherwise be if you tried to overcome it, and asked God to help you heal. The fact that gay relationships are so fleeting is another indicator they are not rooted in a divine foundation.

NO.

I can not succinctly say it any more simply. Homosexuality, is not a choice, at all. Did you choose to have all of the sexual attractions that you do? Nope, you didn't. No one does. I ALREADY SAID that you can't change your sexual orientation. I supplied facts to back it up! Yet, you refuse to listen, every single goddamn time. Do you realize how [insult removed] you're being? I mean that literally. You're given the facts, as they are, and don't take them.

 

[gromit]

That's the point. It doesn't follow, based on the constructs people have illustrated here, I think. I personally do not believe nor do I actively disbelieve in the existence of a soul at all. I don't know, I can't know- so I don't care (I do not follow theism, nor do I buy into concepts associated with theism. For me it's a passive lack of belief vs an active belief of nonexistence, if that makes sense).

The implication that only humans are separate from animals in that context (souls/eternal life/a god's creation/sexuality) seems like bs "we're special snowflake Masters of The Universe" to me. Contradictory, rather. I figure either we all have souls, or we don't. I don't believe I have one.. I love my cat.. but I don't believe he has one, either. But if I do have one, my cat sure does, as well.. sapient or not.

Ah fair enough. Yeah I don't KNOW about souls either, just my thoughts/impression...

Now I have to wonder if a god would send my kitty to his Hell for mounting a male cat in his adolescent years..

UH OH....