The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

[Jaguar]

Maybe its because you never left your hometown? lol How many states have you lived in again? If at all...

Is this really the best response you have?

 

[Maou]

Is this really the best response you have?

I'm not the one pointing out a common mistake, as news worthy. You can argue that you do not know anyone, but that is irrelevant because its anecdotal. That doesn't make it a proper argument. I honestly find people who denounce someone for such mistakes as petty. This is just part of the Trump derangement syndrome, as many presidents have made similar mistakes in the past. But few have made the news like that. I shouldn't be surprised though, since this kind of shit is the entire basis of the anti-Trump faction. Since you cannot find anything worse than his personality, and by extension his mistakes. Which by the way, was corrected immediately. I would like you to be just as unforgiving towards democrats.

 

[Jaguar]

This is just part of the Trump derangement syndrome

See a doctor about it. Good luck.

 

[Maou]

See a doctor about it. Good luck.

Keep projecting. Can't wait till Trump wins reelection.

 

[Jaguar]

Why Donald Trump's 'Kansas' mistake absolutely matters | News | kctv5.com

 

[Maou]

Why Donald Trump's 'Kansas' mistake absolutely matters | News | kctv5.com

Oh so you want to go at it from that angle, okay. It literally dismisses it in the first half of the article, saying Obama did something similar at would have normally been okay. Oh but this is Trump. Then says its a good thing to stoop to Trump's level and make the same petty remarks about people like he does. So it becomes a race to the bottom.

I for one, think Trump is justified in his petty name calling, based purely on the fact the media severely mistreats him with 70-98% negative reporting, and calling him stupid etc (which is way worse than being a grammar nazi). They report on mock assassinations like its a festival. Anyone would get a bit bitter about that. So really, this is just admitting they are petty enough to do the same shit. They do not have the moral high ground.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'm actually a bit disappointed by the big reaction to Kansas/Missouri. There are two Kansas cities, they are twin cities along the Kansas/Missouri border, and it's a relatively easy mistake to make. It's not like it's Missouri's capital, so not knowing about it isn't as 'exceptionally stupid' as people are making it out to be - even for a POTUS. I probably only know it myself because my dad grew up in the one in Missouri.

It's trivial pile-ons like this that contribute senseless 'noise' to the divisiveness, when we really should be trying to amplify the signal (the stuff that's actually important) and decrease the noise (the senseless anger and mocking that Trump uses to his advantage).

(That said, I can't believe it took a full 12 hours to start seeing Sharpie memes about changing the Kansas/Missouri border).

Regarding the bolded: he won the primaries exactly because he was publicly mocking his opponents and running circles around them. He did it in a way that is arrogant but his lines were very well placed in the moment. In my book it was anti-hero style but that was exactly the winning ticket, since everyone got bored with same old political faces that never really say anything.

I think maybe we're just understanding "running circles around them" vs. "stampeding over them" a little differently, and we're not actually disagreeing (at least, our understandings of these phrases aren't exactly calibrated).

I agree with the bolded, and my only point is that I don't think there was intentional design in the way he did it. I just don't think he's smart enough to be intentionally manipulative about it. (There was a sort of intelligent design in what happened, but it seems to me like he was simply as swept up in something bigger than himself as his followers). I say this because he doesn't have the theory of mind to know he should switch to something more dignified when dealing with a crowd that requires more dignified behavior to garner respect. He has one mode: out of control, juvenile bully with an outrageously inflated sense of entitlement. Somehow the particular brand of lies systematically dispatched from his blowhole happen to pair remarkably well with some kind of festering anger on the right, but I really doubt there's any conscious strategy about it.

While Trump was something different in that moment. However since my part of the world likes populists and strongman already in the spring I was saying that he will probably take general elections. Because this is simply natural marriage between strongman and country in deep crisis. USA is the country that doesn't have a deep history of profound changes and crisis but when it happened in modern days the human nature did it's thing. The fact that someone here is embarrassed or embarrassing is irrelevant, people are annoyed and want someone that isn't sweet talking. If he brakes some laws to take shortcuts in getting stuff done or harm his opponents it doesn't matter. He and his base have deep emotional connection and that is it, logical arguments are basically useless here or perhaps even counter productive. Because the more you attack the more you enforce the emotional bond. Towards classic American philosophy it is impossible that the bad is attractive but the forbidden fruit was simply too tempting for many in 2016. Which is because in America nothing ever really changes, since the country is defined as perfect the way it is.

I agree with this, and I think it's a good thing he wasn't removed because the most rabid of his fan base just wouldn't accept it. The narrative in that Trump support bubble seems to be "It's a partisan attack from the Democrats. Trump did no wrong." and there's no room for any variation of that. And like you say, the more (the majority of) people in this country hate him, the more his base doubles down and dogmatically believes whatever narrative is being thrown around inside the bubble to support him/becomes blind to wrong doing on his part. It's a vicious circle. He pulls outright lies out of his ass and it strengthens the bond (e.g. "You know, we're not supposed to say 'Thanksgiving' anymore"); the acrimony that the other side (we'll call them 'the sane majority') feel for his pathological lying gets spun as "the irrational hate the Dems and 'haters' feel for Trump makes them tell/believe lies about him." Or something. I totally agree with you about this. The more people hate him, to less his base is capable of considering the possibility that he's a con man (but the more evidence mounts that he is indeed a con man, the more hate 'the sane majority' feels for him, rinse and repeat...)

Therefore your only hope if you don't like Trump is pushing policy and arguments that will restore normal life. And then wait for the traumatized generation to get old, so that healthy one takes over. My country failed in providing truly normal life for the most and therefore we can't cut the past. Since legends live and they have become more eternal than they were in their time.

My only disagreement with this is that time alone won't ensure a healthy one takes over. Because trauma is actually inherited, and there are people who are still experiencing residual trauma of the Civil War. [See: somewhat recent debacles about civil war statues.] In fact, there's probably a good argument to be had that a good deal of Trump's support is precisely those pockets of people who are carrying lingering Civil War trauma in their collective psyche - like he's tapping into it and using it (and exacerbating it, so that instead of healing it just opens up and becomes raw again).

So it's going to take more than time to let it work its way out of the system. There needs to be some intentional form of healing/some healthier approach to dialogue to prevent some other shithead despot from coming along and tapping into the residual/using it in the same way.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Also? Instead of doing things like tearing up his SOTU speech, I think Pelosi (et al) should get in the habit of simply laughing at him when he tells lies. Like they did at the U.N. People like Trump thrive on hate/anger - he uses it to his own advantage - but they can't bear being anyone's punchline, so they don't use moments that make them look weak. (And I'm not talking about when people say he's "a joke" as a pejorative, in anger, because that's still just anger. I think he actually needs to be treated like a non-threatening punchline. That's the only way to make full blown narcissists slow down/back off.)

Bill Maher last week suggested that people yell "You're lying" at the SOTU - but really, anyone doing that might as well contribute financially to his campaign. But I think quiet laughter when he lied would have had an impact.

(Though I realize it's easier said than done, it's not easy to cultivate that caliber of detachment).

 

[ceecee]

Also? Instead of doing things like tearing up his SOTU speech, I think Pelosi (et al) should get in the habit of simply laughing at him when he tells lies. Like they did at the U.N. People like Trump thrive on hate/anger - he uses it to his own advantage - but they can't bear being anyone's punchline, so they don't use moments that make them look weak. (And I'm not talking about when people say he's "a joke" as a pejorative, in anger, because that's still just anger. I think he actually needs to be treated like a non-threatening punchline. That's the only way to make full blown narcissists slow down/back off.)

Bill Maher last week suggested that people yell "You're lying" at the SOTU - but really, anyone doing that might as well contribute financially to his campaign. But I think quiet laughter when he lied would have had an impact.

(Though I realize it's easier said than done, it's not easy to cultivate that caliber of detachment).

I laughed at the Kansas tweet (which was deleted). I also laugh at all his supporters screaming themselves into a tizzy defending this stupid shit.

 

[Lark]

So, bedtime for democracy then?

 

[Virtual ghost]

My only disagreement with this is that time alone won't ensure a healthy one takes over. Because trauma is actually inherited, and there are people who are still experiencing residual trauma of the Civil War. [See: somewhat recent debacles about civil war statues.] In fact, there's probably a good argument to be had that a good deal of Trump's support is precisely those pockets of people who are carrying lingering Civil War trauma in their collective psyche - like he's tapping into it and using it (and exacerbating it, so that instead of healing it just opens up and becomes raw again).

So it's going to take more than time to let it work its way out of the system. There needs to be some intentional form of healing/some healthier approach to dialogue to prevent some other shithead despot from coming along and tapping into the residual/using it in the same way.

That is why I start with the line.

Therefore your only hope if you don't like Trump is pushing policy and arguments that will restore normal life.

There are no guarantees but at least the general desire should be that newer generations live truly better and that this is smooth out as much as possible. This is why I am skeptical of giving too much attention to history (especially in partisan way). Because on my local level history is mostly just wars and dictatorships since the crash of Roman empire (literally). Therefore from that point of view continuity shouldn't be always respected. Here in a way we have the whole informal movement of "forgetting the past" since someone is gathering cheap political points on keeping the shit on public discourse. Or it uses it to dodge very relevant topics in the present or to hide corruption.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So, bedtime for democracy then?

That will probably be defined with General election.


However since I am from the part of the world where open "resistance" was pretty normal thing through history I am not sure it is really that simple. Just about everything has official version and the version of how it really is in the field. Therefore discontinuity between rulers and population isn't something unheard off, while removing entire groups and sub-cultures is actually pretty hard task. This is exactly why just about every authoritarian figure is/was obsessed with "inner enemy".

 

[Tomb1]

Such a pity that in 2020 a leader of a country has to ape up a group of people who still believe that virgin birth and human resurrection are biologically possible.

Christian leaders react to Trump'''s emphasis on faith during SOTU | Fox News

"In America, we don't punish prayer. We don't tear down crosses. We don't ban symbols of faith. We don't muzzle preachers and pastors," the Republican commander-in-chief declared. "In America, we celebrate faith. We cherish religion. We lift our voices in prayer, and we raise our sights to the glory of God..."

He wants to make America great again by cherishing ignorance and stupidity, imaginary beings, biological impossibilities.

lol, such demagoguery unless he's actually stupid enough to buy that line of tripe. God, how embarassing at what a failed experiment America has turned out to be. Its puke-worthy

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Such a pity that in 2020 a leader of a country has to ape up a group of people who still believe that virgin birth and human resurrection are biologically possible.

Christian leaders react to Trump'''s emphasis on faith during SOTU | Fox News

"In America, we don't punish prayer. We don't tear down crosses. We don't ban symbols of faith. We don't muzzle preachers and pastors," the Republican commander-in-chief declared. "In America, we celebrate faith. We cherish religion. We lift our voices in prayer, and we raise our sights to the glory of God..."

He wants to make America great again by cherishing ignorance and stupidity, imaginary beings, biological impossibilities.

lol, such demagoguery unless he's actually stupid enough to buy that line of tripe. God, how embarassing at what a failed experiment America has turned out to be. Its puke-worthy

And he doesn't even believe half of that, but his base still eats that shit up like cheese puffs. They believe the antichrist will use flowery language about scripture to seduce. Hmm. Maybe they should be concerned.

Also, it's hard for me to take any of that sanctity of life and family first sort of rhetoric seriously coming from someone who has no issue with his border agents splitting up families and putting children in detention camps.

 

[Tomb1]

And he doesn't even believe half of that, but his base still eats that shit up like cheese puffs. They believe the antichrist will use flowery language about scripture to seduce. Hmm. Maybe they should be concerned.

Also, it's hard for me to take any of that sanctity of life and family first sort of rhetoric seriously coming from someone who has no issue with his border agents splitting up families and putting children in detention camps.

I don't even arrive at the question of whether a fetus is life or not. I come out pro-choice either way.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Silly Americans, Mother Russia will crush you.

 

[Jaguar]

Trump cries fake news as image of dramatic orange tan line goes viral | US news | The Guardian

 

[Maou]

Pelosi Clashes With Facebook and Twitter Over Video Posted by Trump - The New York Times

 

[Maou]

Trump cries fake news as image of dramatic orange tan line goes viral | US news | The Guardian

The photographer admitted he manipulated the contrast of the photo to make it look worse lol. So it is fake news in the sense that they did in fact, Photoshop it. Still and extremely petty news story.

 

[Jaguar]

Video of Pelosi brings renewed attention to 'cheapfakes'

The issue of misleading political messages on social media has arisen again, as President Donald Trump tweeted an edited video showing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi repeatedly tearing up his State of the Union speech as he honored audience members and showed a military family reuniting. Pelosi did tear the pages of her copy of the speech — but only after it was finished, and not throughout the address, as the video depicts.