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The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

onemoretime

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Basically, businesses under capitalism select for the norms that best reflects the majority of its customer base. In the USA, this means most businesses have to be moral in order to survive.

That's the funniest fucking thing I've read in my entire life.

Trump is exactly the kind of president we ("middle class" white America) deserve - just as self-deluded, violent, and cowardly as we are.
 

Tellenbach

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Lark said:
Old Donald Chump isnt a fighter, he's an embarrassment, a lot like Bush Jr. was before him.

At least he doesn't look like a cannibal like former UK PM Gordon Brown, :D and at least he isn't a dork like Ed Milliband. I did enjoy Milliband's work in "Revenge of the Nerds".
 

Tellenbach

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I assure you that Pocahontas ate many, many bags of chips in one sitting as a child. :D
 

Virtual ghost

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I find it funny when people "masturbate" on Libertarian ideas since we are living in the world where libertarianism leads to global Communism.



How was possible that basically entire US manufacture ends up in China ? Through deregulation and "I don't owe anyone anything" mentality. While Communists realized that the best way to destroy capitalism is through "corporate takeover".


Also through every man for himself libertariansim can't create enough experts which take decades to educate at this tech level, what gives Communists clear long term advantage that only piles up (I am talking about real Communists here, not Democratic party ... aka Liberals). Global economy is a team sport and those that play just for themselves lose by default, this is exactly why all of you have the lives you currently have. Since you don't have a game plan, unlike some other countries.
 

Maou

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I find it funny when people "masturbate" on Libertarian ideas since we are living in the world where libertarianism leads to global Communism.



How was possible that basically entire US manufacture ends up in China ? Through deregulation and "I don't owe anyone anything" mentality. While Communists realized that the best way to destroy capitalism is through "corporate takeover".


Also through every man for himself libertariansim can't create enough experts which take decades to educate at this tech level, what gives Communists clear long term advantage that only piles up (I am talking about real Communists here, not Democratic party ... aka Liberals). Global economy is a team sport and those that play just for themselves lose by default, this is exactly why all of you have the lives you currently have. Since you don't have a game plan, unlike some other countries.

How do you conclude Libertarianism leads to global communism? Libertarian by common definition is deregulation, small government, more freedom. That is literally the anti-thesis to the common definition of communism. Which has big government, strong regulations, and less freedom to maintain fairness. In a Libertarian society, the concept of "equality" doesn't exist, since its more survival of the fittest.
 

ceecee

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I find it funny when people "masturbate" on Libertarian ideas since we are living in the world where libertarianism leads to global Communism.



How was possible that basically entire US manufacture ends up in China ? Through deregulation and "I don't owe anyone anything" mentality. While Communists realized that the best way to destroy capitalism is through "corporate takeover".


Also through every man for himself libertariansim can't create enough experts which take decades to educate at this tech level, what gives Communists clear long term advantage that only piles up (I am talking about real Communists here, not Democratic party ... aka Liberals). Global economy is a team sport and those that play just for themselves lose by default, this is exactly why all of you have the lives you currently have. Since you don't have a game plan, unlike some other countries.

In the US, Libritarianism is often used as a shield for expressing a lot of disturbing viewpoints, often it's just a piepline to the far right and all their fashy branches. Of all the libertarians I've met, the only common theme is that they use decriminalization of marijuana as a - look at me, I'm not socially conservative! - yard sign. They get explosively pissed when this is pointed but that - I got mine, fuck you - mindset they and most conservatives possess isn't working now, it isn't going to work in the future and if they can't see that, why waste energy on them?

In a Libertarian society, the concept of "equality" doesn't exist, since its more survival of the fittest.

See what I mean? All for one, none of all.
 

Virtual ghost

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How do you conclude Libertarianism leads to global communism? Libertarian by common definition is deregulation, small government, more freedom. That is literally the anti-thesis to the common definition of communism. Which has big government, strong regulations, and less freedom to maintain fairness. In a Libertarian society, the concept of "equality" doesn't exist, since its more survival of the fittest.



Ok, let's go step by step.


1. Deregulation creates more freedom to the owner of the business

2. Business owner wants to maximize profit on the free market

3. The best way to do that is through lower wages and cutting regulations

4. Business owner quickly realizes that such workforce is almost in the endless supply outside of USA

5. Big business owners start to fund campaigns to various politician that will ease the whole process of exporting manufacture

6. Large and medium manufacture starts to shift overseas where people do the same thing for 5% of the price, plus they can't protest since they live in open dictatorship

7. The working/middle class starts to experience difficulties in affording life

8. As the "new free market" settles in the authoritarian governments have greatly increased income and even those that don't want to move factories overseas must since the wage difference is too big. Those that don't move will go bankrupt.

9. As USA loses it's manufacture it shifts the global center of power. Since all the countries that were dependent on US for specialized goods now depend on places like China and it's satellites. Especially since China with the huge profits managed to make it's own manufacturing base instead of just hosting US companies.

10. China Starts to buy assets and stocks in USA, as well as giving loans to the government.

11. Most of the population in USA is so crippled in financial sense that they demand more benefits just to survive.

12. Without any barriers China and similar countries start to openly buy stuff in all the countries that were previously dependent on US. Most of which are too weak to stand or have the elites that just want to make extra profit for their "donors".

13. US population is so dependent on the food stamps , medicare and similar programs that the public debt is getting out of control. Since entire countries are crippled by loss of industry, especially since just about everything they buy creates more jobs abroad not at home. Plus since hundreds of billions of $ are going abroad the government has to print more money, what wobbles the entire system.

14. As the deregulation ideology settles in USA completely the food security/quality is also targeted. Therefore other developed countries start to impose food embargo on US foods since it no longer matches even the most basic health standards. However dictatorships don't have a fundamental problem with such food to feed their poor and therefore make US tightly dependent on their market. Since this is the only possible export market and there have to be exports at all cost since the loss of most factories was socially catastrophic.

15. Authoritarian countries start military expansion in order to be more openly influential all over the world. Since sucking out the economy wasn't enough for them. For this reason military spending of USA and similar countries has to go up to keep the ratios as they are.

16. Most of US public don't have the money to really afford their life and military is taking bigger and bigger part of the cake as global world order changes. Since the main industrial engine has shifted to the eastern hemisphere. Which has wages, democracy and environments that democracy can't match because people would rebel.

17. Since American public is quickly losing purchasing power they start to demand Medicare for all since most can't really survive without such aid. Plus the number of untreated individuals starts to take extra tool on economic competitiveness and mental health.

18. China is becoming even more bolder and uses it's economic might to return Communism into ex-communist countries in Europe, which were never truly made democratic. Thus it lower US exports and it takes countries that are NATO allies slowly to their side by promising local elites that when China is in charge they can reintroduce the dictatorships, China doesn't care. What also opens serious security holes for the USA since those countries are important for US security and they know a few secrets due to military pact. Therefore military needs extra spending to fill in these holes.

19. Therefore under all these pressures that are just getting worse USA starts to implode internally in social, economic and political sense, since the current system simply can't be maintained. Since there are just too many problems all over the map. What greatly accelerates implosion of democracies all over the world to the point that USA is completely cornered and broke.


This is simplified picture of what happened and is happening but this is the core process. The mentality of "grass is always greener somewhere else" and "I don't owe anyone anything" has led to the scenario that the genie was released out of the bottle and now no one knows how to return it.




In a Libertarian society, the concept of "equality" doesn't exist, since its more survival of the fittest.


Correct, and who is the the most ruthless force on the map ? Communism.
Which is exactly why just about all Americans fear it. Since this is the force that can kill tens of millions of it's own people pretty much just for LOLs or some minor details. So now in 21th century libertarian greed is feeding this system since everything is allowed in the name of the profit. What will be the end of libertarianism since the monster will simply twist you, eat you and buy all of your friends.



Therefore since you voted for Trump you are for regulation not deregulation, since restoring national economy and the rule of law is regulation of global market (which is the most free market possible). Which is in order that CEOs can no longer do pretty much whatever they want (what libertarianism fundamentally favors). However since USA is retreating to do it's own "I don't care" thing at home they all leaving most of the world to China, together with future of the dollar, natural/rare resources, markets etc. What surely leads to economic implosion and spread of Communism. Explore why USA has spread around the world so much since ww2 and why that didn't have the real alternative through late 20th century.
 

Maou

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See what I mean? All for one, none of all.

Depends on your viewpoint. It is a similar concept to atheism. You don't need god to be moral. You don't need the government to be moral. The threat of both government and god keep the "stupid" people in line. One thing in common with atheists and Libertarians is they have higher than average intelligence. Libertarians belief the only why to live correctly, is taking their life into their own hands. Not exactly pissing on those less off, but taking care of their own. If you consider potential as a viable trait in society, it holds the most potential. But it lacks cooperation.
 

Virtual ghost

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In the US, Libritarianism is often used as a shield for expressing a lot of disturbing viewpoints, often it's just a piepline to the far right and all their fashy branches. Of all the libertarians I've met, the only common theme is that they use decriminalization of marijuana as a - look at me, I'm not socially conservative! - yard sign. They get explosively pissed when this is pointed but that - I got mine, fuck you - mindset they and most conservatives possess isn't working now, it isn't going to work in the future and if they can't see that, why waste energy on them?


See what I mean? All for one, none of all.


Well, in my place we don't have libertarians and until I came here so many years ago I never even heard the term. So I am exploring out of curiosity. :D
 

Jaguar

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80% of prison inmates identify with the Democrat party.

Trump was a registered Democrat and even went so far as to say the economy usually does better under Democrats. Perhaps they interviewed him while he was in prison. Wait, maybe I'm seeing the future . . .

 

Z Buck McFate

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Sondland is now confirming that it was to be made clear that Ukraine wouldn't receive the aid until a public statement about an investigation was made.

Eta, from NYT:

“I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” Mr. Sondland said in the new statement, which was made public by the House committees leading the inquiry, along with the transcript of his original testimony.​
 

Yuurei

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Hey kids, just a friendly reminder: we reopened this sub-forum on the condition that we use our big boy words and treat others with respect and civility. Such broad, utterly baseless statements like 'All of X group are lazy and irresponsible" will absolutely not be tolerated. There is nothing constructive to be gained from such discussion. Those particular posts have been removed as will any further accusations of the same.
 

Tellenbach

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Virtual ghost said:
7. The working/middle class starts to experience difficulties in affording life

Where do you get this from? This seems like a giant leap to me. Cheaper products made overseas means there is more to spend; places like Walmart, that have lots of Chinese inventory, save consumers thousands of dollars each year.

11. Most of the population in USA is so crippled in financial sense that they demand more benefits just to survive.

Strange leap in thinking. If you look at a list of nations where the economic freedom index is high, they generally go great.

12. Without any barriers China and similar countries start to openly buy stuff in all the countries that were previously dependent on US. Most of which are too weak to stand or have the elites that just want to make extra profit for their "donors".

Competition is a good thing; it drives down prices.

13. US population is so dependent on the food stamps , medicare and similar programs that the public debt is getting out of control. Since entire countries are crippled by loss of industry, especially since just about everything they buy creates more jobs abroad not at home. Plus since hundreds of billions of $ are going abroad the government has to print more money, what wobbles the entire system.

Debt and overspending is a problem of leadership, not economic policy. Debt has increased even as we experience higher GDP, greater tax revenue. The politicians are spending way more on programs that waste money.

17. Since American public is quickly losing purchasing power they start to demand Medicare for all since most can't really survive without such aid. Plus the number of untreated individuals starts to take extra tool on economic competitiveness and mental health.

This is what happens when leftists run the educational system.

18. China is becoming even more bolder and uses it's economic might to return Communism into ex-communist countries in Europe, which were never truly made democratic.

That hasn't been a problem with China; they aren't very imperialistic at all. I appreciate all the effort, but you've made some wild leaps that aren't true.
 

Virtual ghost

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Where do you get this from? This seems like a giant leap to me. Cheaper products made overseas means there is more to spend; places like Walmart, that have lots of Chinese inventory, save consumers thousands of dollars each year.


And what do you think from where did I get it ?






1. The thing is that if Walmart has a lot of Chinese inventory that means this is more of monopoly actually.

2. Also it doesn't mean there is more to spend. Since you have sent a good portion of the money to China instead to US businesses. Plus many have lost their stable production jobs and they have to do some part time minimum wage slave stuff. What is pain in the ass even if we don't count the money. This issue is exactly why Trump became president in the first place.

3.



China is steadily rising military budget and US taxpayers have to spend extra to match. The numbers can be extra deceiving since their workforce is much cheaper.



Competition is a good thing; it drives down prices.


Competition is cute when two stores across the street are doing it. When a democratic and undemocratic superpower are fighting for the place to define the future of the world then it is something else entirely. I always thought that the core of American mindset is that freedom has no price.



Debt and overspending is a problem of leadership, not economic policy. Debt has increased even as we experience higher GDP, greater tax revenue. The politicians are spending way more on programs that waste money.

And they are doing it mostly because certain parts of the country lost their income due to massive outsourcing. (on which Trump got elected)

This is what happens when leftists run the educational system.

And China puts democratic party to shame when it comes to being a "lefty". They don't even have the institution of elections.



That hasn't been a problem with China; they aren't very imperialistic at all. I appreciate all the effort, but you've made some wild leaps that aren't true.

And that is your subjective opinion.

Feel free to skip through this since it a 3 hours long.






Plus something to think about.





We aren't in the 90s anymore.
 

Nicodemus

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In the US, Libritarianism is often used as a shield for expressing a lot of disturbing viewpoints, often it's just a piepline to the far right and all their fashy branches. Of all the libertarians I've met, the only common theme is that they use decriminalization of marijuana as a - look at me, I'm not socially conservative! - yard sign. They get explosively pissed when this is pointed but that - I got mine, fuck you - mindset they and most conservatives possess isn't working now, it isn't going to work in the future and if they can't see that, why waste energy on them?
In partical terms, libertarianism seems to be a philosophy favored by people who try to cope with complexity by pretending that it does not exist. No libertarian on this forum has ever offered anything but simplistic solutions to complex problems. That is why they always want to go back in time to some natural state when things were supposedly simpler. Libertarianism is to politics what Monopoly (the game) is to economics.
 

Totenkindly

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Sondland is now confirming that it was to be made clear that Ukraine wouldn't receive the aid until a public statement about an investigation was made.

Eta, from NYT:

“I said that resumption of the U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anticorruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks,” Mr. Sondland said in the new statement, which was made public by the House committees leading the inquiry, along with the transcript of his original testimony.​

Well, golly. Who woulda thunk?
 

Virtual ghost

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I see that Kentucky did an "interesting move", which will probably have large consequences down the road.
 

Nicodemus

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I see that Kentucky did an "interesting move", which will probably have large consequences down the road.
Not a very hope-inducing one, though. The Democrat barely won, against a very unpopular Republican incumbent. But there is a more interesting move to be had next November along similar lines: Whether Trump survives or not, it would be very satisfying to see McConnell, the country's least popular senator, lose to a highly electable Democrat.
 

Totenkindly

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Same. I don't think Bevin's (probable) loss is that big a deal in the sense he was hated even by his own party for some things he's done since he rolled into office; I think he's been touted as the "most unpopular governor in the US" at times. And the Democrat is pretty moderate and didn't lean into any efforts Republicans are stereotypically against, it's not like he ran as a loud liberal sort.

(Virginia was different. There's a possibility for some pretty progressive changes with this election result.)

I'm pretty happy to see how Amy McGrath does.
 
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