Teach me to be a J!!!!!!

[Virtual ghost]

Well, you can stop assuming that every sentence out of my mouth is about SJness. You can also cut out your holier than thou attitude about being an NJ that it's a completely different concept from being an SJ. Regardless how we use our introverted functions, we're still Judgers, and we still expect the external world to be structured. If you debate otherwise, then you're just trying to convince people that being an NJ makes you a Perceiver, where as it doesn't. All it does is affect the kind of structure you impose on the world.

No, I am just saying that those two are quite different. What I am saying is that there are 2 kinds of judgers, that is all. As far as I remember I said that they are "quite different" what is not the same as "totally different".
From the outside we can look very similar but our "inner process" is different. But Ps have nothing to with this.


What makes you think that I think that all of your words are connected with SJness ?

 

[raz]

No, I am just saying that those two are quite different. What I am saying is that there are 2 kinds of judgers, that is all. As far as I remember I said that they are "quite different" what is not the same as "totally different".
From the outside we can look very similar but our "inner process" is different. But Ps have nothing to with this.


What makes you think that I think that all of your words are connected with SJness ?

I was referring to your last post.

 

[Laurie]

give examples of taking advantage?

if you are failing classes because you procrastinate learning, if you never come on time and you have problems at college because of it, if you can't make decisions, and you are almost never sure what's your opinion about something because you don't like limitations and defining things.

?

This isn't just P. I'm very P and I got through college, albeit with struggles. I went to most classes and wasn't late all the time. My struggle was with homework. My ESFP sister didn't make it through college because of the same struggles you mention. The being late to classes and skipping classes can be easily fixed. You just have to decide to fix it.

 

[Asterion]

give examples of taking advantage?

if you are failing classes because you procrastinate learning, if you never come on time and you have problems at college because of it, if you can't make decisions, and you are almost never sure what's your opinion about something because you don't like limitations and defining things.

?

So long as you take everything seriously, you can use your Pness in a good healthy way

1. play first, go talk to your friends, mess around etc.
2. do a solid block of work, in less time than a J would take, just like one super blast of work
3. brag, brag, brag

repeat steps 1 to 3 as often as you can

 

[Chloe]

This isn't just P. I'm very P and I got through college, albeit with struggles. I went to most classes and wasn't late all the time. My struggle was with homework. My ESFP sister didn't make it through college because of the same struggles you mention. The being late to classes and skipping classes can be easily fixed. You just have to decide to fix it.

whats that if it isn't extreme P?
I mentioned extreme P problems because thats when people really need become more J.

I somehow can fix skipping and being late... but... learning and so... not. At least not in J-way, with plan or "just because you should do it, it's best for you" - I'm always "there's time later"

 

[Chloe]

So long as you take everything seriously, you can use your Pness in a good healthy way

1. play first, go talk to your friends, mess around etc.
2. do a solid block of work, in less time than a J would take, just like one super blast of work
3. brag, brag, brag

repeat steps 1 to 3 as often as you can

I do that, but I stay at 2. not enough, or even more often at 1., or 3. too long.
mostly i skip 2 completely.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I was referring to your last post.

Welll I saw you upagraded post and I now know on what you mean.

To me it looks that this is not really a problem with J. It is more like a problem in E/I sprere. That is why I said I am woking on developing better social connection.

What I am doing exactly because my J can't function properly if I live like this and from what I know you are in similar social position as I am.
This is why I said that channaling your J is a better/wiser choice then an atempt to balance your J.

 

[Asterion]

whats that if it isn't extreme P?
I mentioned extreme P problems because thats when people really need become more J.

I somehow can fix skipping and being late... but... learning and so... not. At least not in J-way, with plan or "just because you should do it, it's best for you" - I'm always "there's time later"

I do the same thing, but I don't think that has much to do with extreme Pness. It's motivation, seriousness, interest. Js do this as well I think. and like Atomic Orbital says, it could have something to do with the E/I difference. I skip step 2 quite often, and do just about everything you, chloee have mentioned. The thing is, It's not P.

 

[raz]

Welll I saw you upagraded post and I now know on what you mean.

To me it looks that this is not really a problem with J. It is more like a problem in E/I sprere. That is why I said I am woking on developing better social connection.

What I am doing exactly because my J can't function properly if I live like this and from what I know you are in similar social position as I am.
This is why I said that channaling your J is a better/wiser choice then an atempt to balance your J.

Then this thread should just be renamed to, "Teach me how to be more organized"

 

[Chloe]

I do the same thing, but I don't think that has much to do with extreme Pness. It's motivation, seriousness, interest. Js do this as well I think. and like Atomic Orbital says, it could have something to do with the E/I difference. I skip step 2 quite often, and do just about everything you, chloee have mentioned. The thing is, It's not P.

how do you know that's not p?

it's not interest stuff. motivation yes.. but...


edit: where did Atomic Orbital say anything? cant find post at all????

 

[Asterion]

Maybe we need a poll to determine how many Extroverts have this trouble in comparison to Introverts. I remember that the ISTP has less trouble in school than ESTP does, the OP is also an ENFP. It's interesting... I've seen heaps of INTPs whinging about this problem too though

 

[Chloe]

yes, true, maybe it has something to do with e/i... hm. and yes, i just wanted to say that about INTPs, they have same problem - the one i know in RL as well, and those online.
(i edited previous post,look it pls)

 

[Unique]

Have your fun first it will put you in a good mood for work, thats how perceiving is meant to work

Problem is a lot of perceivers have fun then don't immediately start the work... then later their momentum they have has fizzled out

A judger has fun after the work is complete I don't know how they manage it but hey I'm not one to judge (no pun intended)

Some judgers end up having fun before they finish their work, this makes a judger uncomfortable

Essentially no difference when it comes to enjoyment vs work they are just reversed depending on if you are J or P

 

[raz]

I do work before fun because it makes me enjoy the fun more knowing I was productive. If I have fun before work, it makes me feel uncomfortable and lazy.

 

[Unique]

I do work before fun because it makes me enjoy the fun more knowing I was productive. If I have fun before work, it makes me feel uncomfortable and lazy.

Yeah exactly my point

Where as a perceiver uses their fun as momentum to make them feel like working (or should be, just like a judger should be doing what you stated)

Both Judgers and Perceivers can be lazy and both feel bad about it, just at different times and in different ways

I guess my point is you can become productive or unproductive as either J or P you just need to know how to use your function in a productive way

Hope that makes sense...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Then this thread should just be renamed to, "Teach me how to be more organized"

I mean it can function properly but it looks to me that it can sustain much larger "pressures" then the current one. What means that I could do more things then I am doing. By opinion of my strong J my current postion can be described as inefficient.


I am mean I am a succesful student and I do a lot of analysing but the time has come to start expanding more then the minimum that is needed for survival. Especially since I don't have social phobias typical for very introverted people.

 

[Chloe]

Have your fun first it will put you in a good mood for work, thats how perceiving is meant to work

Problem is a lot of perceivers have fun then don't immediately start the work... then later their momentum they have has fizzled out

A judger has fun after the work is complete I don't know how they manage it but hey I'm not one to judge (no pun intended)

Some judgers end up having fun before they finish their work, this makes a judger uncomfortable

Essentially no difference when it comes to enjoyment vs work they are just reversed depending on if you are J or P

hm, hm, ... but what if you really don't have time for fun?

for example, I really don't have time for fun all until October, because I have to study whole summer!! for 10 hours per day probably.
Luckily, I'm enneagram Three, Achiever, that saves me everytime when I have to study so much, always in last second of course.

... I also prefer first work then fun. I can't have fun if something isn't done (somehting that REALLY was supposed to be done)... my guilt is too big. But on the other hand, I don't do what I suppose to before fun.

 

[NewEra]

I do work before fun because it makes me enjoy the fun more knowing I was productive. If I have fun before work, it makes me feel uncomfortable and lazy.

Yep, I'm the same exact way. Like Unique said, it's what you naturally do, and that's what makes you either a J or a P.

 

[Chloe]

so does it make me J if I like doing job before play - but i never do so - and I noticed that I learn better when I had fun before that (but that should be rule for everyone, nobody cant study in bad mood, at least not as productfuly like when he is recharged)??

 

[stigmatica]

Yep, I'm the same exact way. Like Unique said, it's what you naturally do, and that's what makes you either a J or a P.

so does it make me J if I like doing job before play - but i never do so - and I noticed that I learn better when I had fun before that (but that should be rule for everyone, nobody cant study in bad mood, at least not as productfuly like when he is recharged)??

I don't know, I've got almost 0 J in me. It's not really "play" that comes before work for me.... it's more of "my current obsession" that comes before work, that may or may not be play. If my obsession is work at the time, then play goes out the window

The key is, I usually don't think of things in terms of responsibilities, I think.

That being said... my life would be soooo much easier with J in it, but at the same time, I love my P.