Star Wars 9

[Totenkindly]

dropping this here...


Star Wars 9 Original Colin Trevorrow Script - The Leaked Script Is Much Better Than The Rise of Skywalker
Robert Meyer Burnett reviews an early draft of Star Wars''' 9th episode entitled DUEL OF THE FATES : StarWarsLeaks

I don't have a date for these scripts or how/when Trevorrow would have meshed with TLJ, so not entirely sure of the validity, but anyway.... At least they called them "holocrons" and it makes more sense than what we got, even if the ending is harsh.

EDIT: Oh here's the script date: 12.16.16. That was a year before TLJ released. Principal photography on TLJ finished in Summer 2016 so the timeline works for this script to be lined up with the shooting script for TLJ.

So there's items that obvious are built off TLJ
- Luke's Force Ghost
- Rose is more involved in the plot
- Kylo is cracking down further
- There's a holocron of Palpatine (!) and I'm glad that's the only remnant of Palpatine in this, it's enoughy
- Jedi texts that Rey stole are referenced and useful in their historical content
- Rey is having nightmares but won't give up on Kylo.
- In this, Rey, is still struggling with being "no one" (which isn't quite how TLJ ends). Leia is reinforcing that Rey is beholden to no bloodline. She can write her own story.
- Kylo destroys Vader's helmet (which makes sense)

Anyway, not everything is something I like, but it's a far cry more coherent and realistic than what we got.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

dropping this here...


Star Wars 9 Original Colin Trevorrow Script - The Leaked Script Is Much Better Than The Rise of Skywalker
Robert Meyer Burnett reviews an early draft of Star Wars''' 9th episode entitled DUEL OF THE FATES : StarWarsLeaks

I don't have a date for these scripts or how/when Trevorrow would have meshed with TLJ, so not entirely sure of the validity, but anyway.... At least they called them "holocrons" and it makes more sense than what we got, even if the ending is harsh.

EDIT: Oh here's the script date: 12.16.16. That was a year before TLJ released. Principal photography on TLJ finished in Summer 2016 so the timeline works for this script to be lined up with the shooting script for TLJ.

That does sound a lot better.

I think having Kylo be redeemed after two previous attempts fail is a hard sell, anyway.

Certainly ROS didn't pull it off.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, it's kind of a hard sell about Kylo for how things go in the films (and they had to retcon to make it work, meh).

I think at best (like I stated in our old discussions) that maybe he could "choose" good from a RATIONAL perspective if he realized he was no longer happy + he would also be broken off from any of the past, he is totally free existentially to do whatever he wants... So he would less choose "good" and more choose "I want to be with Rey rather than lead an empty dark empire".... but that's about the most I could see for him.

I think it is workable to keep him mottled, and tragic, though.


I'm bothered that Abrams didn't pick up his own thread -- I really loved in the TFA how instead of being tempted by the darkness to turn from the light, Kylo was being tempted by the light to turn from darkness. We've never heard of the light being persistent, it was always the dark trying to seduce. But Johnson didn't really take it that way, and Abrams completely just went with this stupid Leia thing that made no sense.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yeah, it's kind of a hard sell about Kylo for how things go in the films (and they had to retcon to make it work, meh).

I think at best (like I stated in our old discussions) that maybe he could "choose" good from a RATIONAL perspective if he realized he was no longer happy + he would also be broken off from any of the past, he is totally free existentially to do whatever he wants... So he would less choose "good" and more choose "I want to be with Rey rather than lead an empty dark empire".... but that's about the most I could see for him.

I think it is workable to keep him mottled, and tragic, though.


I'm bothered that Abrams didn't pick up his own thread -- I really loved in the TFA how instead of being tempted by the darkness to turn from the light, Kylo was being tempted by the light to turn from darkness. We've never heard of the light being persistent, it was always the dark trying to seduce. But Johnson didn't really take it that way, and Abrams completely just went with this stupid Leia thing that made no sense.

I looked at the second link.

Coruscant shows up.

Rey has a double-bladed lightsaber instead of that damn Anakin saber.

Kylo in Vader's Castle. (Apparently Mustafar is at the beginning of the movie, but there's no way to tell this since we don't see the castle and the lava has cooled considerably since even Rogue One).

The Knights of Ren do something.

Mortis?

I really wish they had made this movie instead.

 

[Totenkindly]

Star Wars: Trevorrow's Script Sounds MUCH Better Than The Rise of Skywalker

More explanation -- I hope the actual script leaks at some point.

I'll be honest... mentally, this is now the "canon" for me, I am ignoring anything that ROS did. Sue me.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Star Wars: Trevorrow's Script Sounds MUCH Better Than The Rise of Skywalker

More explanation -- I hope the actual script leaks at some point.

I'll be honest... mentally, this is now the "canon" for me, I am ignoring anything that ROS did. Sue me.

I think I'll do that, too. I usually see these things multiple times in the theater (Solo being the only other exception, which had partially to do with other factors rather than the movie itself, but I also think that movie would have worked better as a TV series), but this one I didn't. While I liked it more than I thought I would, I was rather irritated the more news about the messy, rushed nature of the production leaked out. There's no reason why they couldn't have used Carrie's death as a justification to push the release date back while they retool things. I don't think anyone would have thought that was disrespectful. It just smacks of executive-suite level idiocy (I tend to blame Iger more than Kennedy, though).

After thinking about it more, I'll probably end up placing it below TFA . The writing, if not the acting, was kind of prequel level; you even have characters dying for vague reasons. My issues with TFA are issues that are less glaring and took a longer time to crystallize for me, and they mostly have to do with the fact that the movie doesn't do enough to explain why ROTJ didn't seem to change anything. That's kind of more of a deep Star Wars geek level thing rather than a basic film thing. With TROS, there's something similar going on with Palpatine's return, but there's also the fact that the story told in the movie itself (rather than the broader context of the saga and its existing characters) doesn't make that much sense, as well in the fact that it's being billed as an epic conclusion without providing any sense of closure.

I'm surprised to say it as someone who never had enough interest in Jurassic World to check it out in the first place, but it sounds like Treverrow had a much better grasp of the universe and its characters. Case in point, there's the bit about Kylo talking about Vader's weakness (it bugged me a little that Vader's redemption was never mentioned in TFA), as well as the use of Coruscant and even a planet only seen in the Clone Wars show (Mortis... a kind of magical nexus of the Force-type place). To me it seems like the stuff J.J tended to include from the past of Star Wars were superficial, invoked out of perhaps some sense of personal nostalgia without regard for how much sense it made (the obsession with Anakin's lightsaber sums this up perfectly).

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[Totenkindly]

‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ Now Has the Franchise’s Lowest Rotten Tomatoes Score

Gee whiz.





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I think another thing to remember about RT scores -- aside from the fact that most of the established critics see hundreds/thousands of films across genres and so have a lot to compare to (they typically have seen it all before), they also are required to assess films that they might not have cared to see otherwise. IOW, they are not necessarily fans of the film in question. Hopefully they are trying to be as fair and as impartial as possible, to give each film a shot, but they aren't necessarily part of the fan base. so if you are forcing critics to see a particular genre of film they are not into, or they are comparing to thousands of other similar films, etc., their score might be lower. Then again, when a score is really low, that means it's cutting across a wide genre of critics so they are probably finding issues that are bad regardless. Meanwhile, I think a RT 70-80 range is a decent film (because a certain percentage of critics will always be critical) and anything higher shows a lot of solidarity across genre.

Meanwhile, the audience reviews are skewed in the other direction. They all had to pay for a movie ticket or want to see the film; they are to some degree part of the film's "fan" base because they paid money to see it, hence they are hoping/expecting to like the film, they WANT to like the film. Most of us don't have unlimited cash and time to just go to films we are expecting to hate. At worst, maybe you are dragged along by your friends or family while being less than enthusiastic about a film but typically you are there because you want to be. So this is going to play into final score as well in the opposite direction. Either a film you wanted to see delivers at least some of what you hoped (so your score will be higher) or I guess if it really disappoints from your expectation (we see this with horror films where an audience was advertised a bunch of effective jump scares but the film itself is more about ambiance, for example) you will give a bad score. I tend to expect either high or low scores from an audience though, because the audience is self-selecting -- it either meets expectations as advertised, or it does not. it is a different metric.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Jump scares are overrated anyway. Kubrick made an entire horror film that had only one kill, was 99.5 percent ambiance and maybe .5 percent jump scare, but it still creeps me out. Even more remarkable since most films from that period don't scare me in the least. Though there is a distinction between scary and creepy, and I'm not sure even the shining could be considered "scary" as much as it could be considered unsettling. I've seen or heard a lot of hardcore horror fans dismiss that film because it didn't fit the template they're used to horror films fitting or because it wasn't scary enough for them. But for me, most things in movies don't scare me, it's usually the idea of what's going on in the film that I find scarier than anything actually happening on the screen. Like I just watched Friday the 13th Part 3 and I find it the "scariest" of the series, not in the sense that the film is especially scary (it isn't) but the idea of the scenario in it seems scarier than the other films. It also has an actor who played the killer with a cunning malevolence that isn't really present in the other films.

Sorry, off topic. Just got me thinking about how fickle horror fans can be.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

This is explains his lousey Saving Throws in TFA....

 

[Totenkindly]

that is why everyone loves Han.

He's a symbol of triumph in the face of fickle d20 rolls.

- - - Updated - - -

Man, I wish all the movie sites would stop posting ROS crap.

Like, that movie is so 2019.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Have they announced razzie nominations yet? when are those typically announced?

 

[The Cat]

 

[Totenkindly]

Have they announced razzie nominations yet? when are those typically announced?

RAZZ NEWZ - The Razzies!

 

[Totenkindly]

yeah -- and two warforged with 10 AC... one has all the knowledge and language skills and nothing else with a CHA 8, and the other has rogue skills with a DEX 8.

 

[The Cat]

yeah -- and two warforged with 10 AC... one has all the knowledge and language skills and nothing else with a CHA 8, and the other has rogue skills with a DEX 8.

C-3P0 and R2-D2 are the Jay and Silent Bob of the Star Wars Franchise...

 

[The Cat]

yeah -- and two warforged with 10 AC... one has all the knowledge and language skills and nothing else with a CHA 8, and the other has rogue skills with a DEX 8.

A case could also be made that theyre Goodnatured OP Bard/Rogue/warlock multiclass. (warlock because of that time in the prequils when r2 suddenly learned how to fly. I like to think Ep 2 was when he forged his pact, but broke it after Revenge of the Sith when he went with Ba'al Organa instead of Darth Vader.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

A case could also be made that theyre Goodnatured OP Bard/Rogue/warlock multiclass. (warlock because of that time in the prequils when r2 suddenly learned how to fly. I like to think Ep 2 was when he forged his pact, but broke it after Revenge of the Sith when he went with Ba'al Organa instead of Darth Vader.

Actually the droids as bards isn't far off from how Lucas imagined and designed those characters. They're based loosely on the two peasants from The Hidden Fortress.

 

[Totenkindly]