so what's real?

[miss fortune]

confession... I'm on drugs

not the fun type that they warn you about in DARE (which I think my generation usually treated as "ooh... so THOSE are the drugs that sound the most fun to try!") but the type that you get a prescription from a real doctor person for.

I recently caved in to the pressure of "you're very ADHD and should probably medicate that shit" and started taking adderall... it wasn't really because I wanted to, but because I kept pissing people off by wandering off in the middle of conversations and losing important things and never ever paying attention to paperwork. also started taking a class where studying was necessary (I've never studied in my life) and realized that I couldn't actually study... I'd think I was reading the chapter but nothing went into my brain.

on the bright side, I can actually carry out conversations without running away halfway through and I can not only read chapters, but can also manage to take notes and remember all of the things I was supposed to learn. I don't even lose nearly as many things and have done some paperwork

on the weird side though, I'm even less social now than before.

there are still people that I'll chat with, but I don't go out of my way to socialize even at work. I'm content with doing my own thing and leaving other people completely alone unless it's necessary to communicate with them. it's kind of like my brain decided "ooh... now I can actually keep a train of thought! I think that I'll do that now instead of dealing with all of those people out there." and I'm even less tolerant of bullshit.

that brings me to the question here... what is a real person? did I trade in the real me in order to be able to think clearly and be functional? or did I get rid of all of the superfluous stuff and get back to what is me?

is the real person the person without the disorder or the person with?

 

[Lark]

Hahahhahahahaha.

Ah.

Grasshopper.

Your journey has just begun

 

[prplchknz]

I dunno but i think my mom needs adderalll because what you described before is her and why i get so frustrated talking to her. I know i'm not add /adhd i'm to i want to get to the end of this conversation and her walking off to look at some flowers when we're talking about pie frustrates me.

 

[Chrysanthea]

Hm... Well any mind-altering drugs change your mind obviously, which means that your brain is not in its normal state of being. Not sure if that makes your personality any less real, but it does mean you aren't yourself. At least in my eyes. I am really not sure how you could define a "real" person.

I'd say the real personality is the one without any external forces acting on it. Which makes sense because I am my most true self in isolation and in the midst of withdrawing into myself ignoring everything else.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

The real person is the one that you choose to be, the one made the decision to adapt by getting drugs, and is considering the cost of it, imo.

Good for you for getting drugs. It sounds like a dream come true. I would expect other people are having to adapt to someone who is super-focused on work.

 

[miss fortune]

The real person is the one that you choose to be, the one made the decision to adapt by getting drugs, and is considering the cost of it, imo.

Good for you for getting drugs. It sounds like a dream come true. I would expect other people are having to adapt to someone who is super-focused on work.

still not super focused... I have managed to get up to normal person levels of focus though

though the amount of complements from the bosses makes me wonder if they actually previously hated me... kind of like that episode of Futurama where Fry eats a truck stop gas station egg salad sandwich...
[MENTION=25149]Chrysanthea[/MENTION]

does the same apply to any mental disorder along those lines then? as in we are our imbalances?
[MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION]

my mom took concerta until she retired from teaching... we've had some awesomely random conversations
[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION]

this grasshopper is smart enough to keep her own ant at home to avoid starvation

 

[sprinkles]

Both. And neither.

 

[prplchknz]

[MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION] i wasn't actually answering the question. because i don't know

 

[Opal]

I think playing with your mind and body will reveal different parts of you, and can be helpful for personal growth.

Just take a day or two off now and again to know how much you rely on the medication.

Also, Google "adderall deficiency."

 

[miss fortune]

I think playing with your mind and body will reveal different parts of you, and can be helpful for personal growth.

Just take a day or two off now and again to know how much you rely on the medication.

Also, Google "adderall deficiency."

I actually take a day or two off every week... I was actually disturbed when I realized how little attention I paid to driving on those days... it's a weird contrast on those days really that, in a way, makes me wonder how I managed to reach 31 years of age. I'd really compare taking it v not taking it to wearing my contacts or going without.

I actually DID look up all of that stuff before taking anything and made sure to comply, as I'm not really a fan of taking anything

 

[Crabs]

People change. I think of it like meteorology. A person's moods are like the weather. In some areas, the weather can change drastically from day to day or throughout the year; whereas, a person's temperament or personality is like the climate, which tends to be pretty consistent unless it's changed by external factors. Not just drugs, but traumatic events, existential revelations or emotional experiences can have a dramatic effect on someone's overall personality over time. Some people say that when a person is intoxicated, they are being their 'true selves,' but I don't think that's true. Alcohol is a depressant that distorts your judgment and lowers your inhibitions. However, if a person becomes an alcoholic or drug addict, it can have a major impact on their personality even when they're not drunk or high. Will they ever be the same as they were before their addiction? Maybe not, even if they kick the habit. Overcoming obstacles can change a person's identity, perspective and values for the better anyway.

From what I've read about ADD/ADHD, it's not really a "disorder" as much as a disposition that happens to conflict with the mundane, detail-oriented roles that a lot of modern occupations require, but it also offers creative, innovative and out-of-the-box thinking which could have benefits in the workplace. If it's not interfering with your happiness or ability to survive though, there's really no need to medicate.

Would you say that your experience with Adderall has had an overall positive or negative impact?

 

[miss fortune]

People change. I think of it like meteorology. A person's moods are like the weather. In some areas, the weather can change drastically from day to day or throughout the year; whereas, a person's temperament or personality is like the climate, which tends to be pretty consistent unless it's changed by external factors. Not just drugs, but traumatic events, existential revelations or emotional experiences can have a dramatic effect on someone's overall personality over time. Some people say that when a person is intoxicated, they are being their 'true selves,' but I don't think that's true. Alcohol is a depressant that distorts your judgment and lowers your inhibitions. However, if a person becomes an alcoholic or drug addict, it can have a major impact on their personality even when they're not drunk or high. Will they ever be the same as they were before their addiction? Probably not, even if they kick the habit. Overcoming obstacles can change a person's identity, perspective and values for the better anyway.

From what I've read about ADD/ADHD, it's not a mental illness as much as a disposition that happens to conflict with the mundane, detail-oriented roles that a lot of modern occupations require, but it also offers creative, innovative and out-of-the-box thinking which could have benefits in the workplace. If it's not interfering with your happiness or ability to survive though, there's really no need to medicate.

Would you say that your experience with Adderall has had an overall positive or negative impact?

ha... funny you mention addiction... 4 years sober and haven't felt the real need for social interaction since quitting really... I'd talk at people randomly because it was something to do that wasn't as boring as some other option, but no need to go and hang out with people and create a social network or have a facebook page or anything

and now on adderall I don't even really feel that much of a compulsion to go and chat with people as a distraction, though I'm fine with listening to what's going on around

exactly what's the cause is of course a matter of debate... I read up on it and concluded that there was a lot of information that indicated certain things, but nothing was set in stone definitively, which is pretty average for anything psychological it seems...

feedback from people who don't even know that I've done anything has consistently been positive. I had to do it for the sake of studying, and because it was only a matter of time before I managed to drive someone crazy enough to stab me through the eye with a pencil or something. also, oddly enough, I've been a lot better tempered. my problem solving mentality has always been more "cut the knot" than "think of some clever manner in which to untie it" and that hasn't really been compromised

 

[Duffy]

It sounds easy to get these pills. I always hear stories.

 

[miss fortune]

It sounds easy to get these pills. I always hear stories.

it's easy to get ANY pills if you know who to ask

I managed to avoid them for 20 years or so instead

 

[Lark]

If you'd be interested there is a book by Barry Dainton called The Self which is mind blowing and involves physics, theory of mind and philosophy to search this question.

He suggests there is a self which is something independent of experience and brain chemistry, its a bit odd and mystical, at least it was in my reading but I have no problem in saying that I found it a dense and difficult reading and my understand is not 100%

The question in no small part related to a number of good sci fi scenarios mentioned throughout the book about how a transporter would work, these are effectively copies of the self which are transmitted as data but one copy is destroyed and another remains, there's two or three good novelisations of this idea that I've read about The Prestige, which is sinister and involves copies being murdered in water tanks by magicians exploiting Tesla science, and Rogue Moon, which involves the use of the transporter and copy technology to produce volunteers to explore an alien murder pyramid on Mars.

I've never pondered brain and body chemistry as it pertains to mood, self and determinism that much, I wear glasses to correct my vision, now I for a few years I've had to take medication to correct my sensitivity towards insulin because of diabetes, in different climates I'll wear different clothing to adjust to whether its cold or hot, it doesnt really prompt any existential thinking.

 

[Lark]

it's easy to get ANY pills if you know who to ask

I managed to avoid them for 20 years or so instead

The idea of dependency troubles me, deeply, I've once had a situation in which I didnt have these substances to rely upon and I got sick, I survived but I was ill.

It made be think about what if I didnt have them, like if my supply got stolen, destroyed by a malicious individual (as in Everybody's Fine with Robert De Niro) or if there was a civil disturbance disrupting or putting a stop to supply, any number of scenarios, its not like other medications I've been on for years, which I take frequently enough (ulcer meds) or infrequently (migraine meds) which I could do without.

I hate it because it makes me feel I'm in hock to the government (NHS) or pharmocorps and I dont like either prospect.

If I'd understood the risks I'd have lived quite differently I think, I mean I never ever smoked, never ever dabbled in drugs, never ever developed any habitual drinking of alcohol patterns anything like that because the risks, choices and consequences were clearly understood.

 

[miss fortune]

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION]

Brian Greene talks about the whole transporter duplication thing in Fabric of the Cosmos, which was also a delightful set of programs on NOVA that we once spent a Sunday afternoon fascinated by... after all kinds of excitement about Star Trek like possibilities with transporters, the man then commented that the prestige was correct

as far as dependency goes, this is the only drug that I take on a regular basis and I'm sure that if the pharmaceutical companies collapsed or something I certainly wouldn't be doomed... less focused, yes, but physically healthy. pharmacologically speaking, I know that a massive quantity of caffeine has the same type of effect, though only for a short duration... drugs and chemistry are fascinating and totally worth reading up on!



As the actual point to this thread though:

to pick something less controversial, but still getting to the gist of my question

say someone who is depressed gets treated for depression and they become more relaxed and outgoing than they were previously... would you interpret their personality as that after or before treatment? or would you say that it had changed? and in that case how would that go along with all of the people on here who tend to say "your type never changes"?

 

[citizen cane]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

 

[prplchknz]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

easy come, easy go

 

[Bush]

Yeezus. Yeah, same boat here.

The whole experience gets you thinking all existentially about the nature of the self, doesn't it?

I figured that the best way around it is to realize (or perceive) that 'identity' is simply a construct, a useful tool to define what 'I' am because defining 'I' is pretty damn important in navigating the world. The question of 'me' and 'not me' gets tossed out the window; or, at least, it's permeable.

To the extent that the question's important, though, from an objective perspective, I'd say that the unmedicated me is the 'real me.' Am I a different person when I take a tab of LSD? How about getting an adrenaline rush? Being exhausted? And.. ... other examples that muck around with brain chemistry?

But it's a much better exercise to think of the medicated oneself as the 'real me.' People talk about 'the new me' when they've overcome some life hurdle, no? It's motivating. It's positive. It's not a delusion, either; it's just a matter of perspective.