Silly J supremacy

[Ghost of the dead horse]

N+1 posts on this forum show the attitude of supremacy on J's part. The one's I've most lolled at are them telling, "she's able to pay her rent, she must be J" and such. haHAHAHhhahah

Then there's the much documented view P's have of J's, one telling they're rigid-minded and unable to see outside their chosen perspective, goal or whatever niche of thinking they've attracted to

It's normally unreasonable to blame J for being narrow-minded. But then there's the case of self-evaluation of performance by arbitrary, self-chosen standards.

I've guessed idea in the J supremacy is in ignoring the evidence to the contrary. Narrow down your view, choose your own games and see how you're such a winner. Want to be the best in hola hooping? Heck, just J-ishly choose to do so. So you've got your goal, and after a few months of training, you're such a great talent. Bravo. No matter the other talents you've neglected to develop - see, you're not thinking about them. Such issues don't fit in your well-defined goals.

See the problem?

For Fahrenheit's sake, come on - don't make me spell it out.

 

[pure_mercury]

N+1 posts on this forum show the attitude of supremacy on J's part. The one's I've most lolled at are them telling, "she's able to pay her rent, she must be J" and such. haHAHAHhhahah

Then there's the much documented view P's have of J's, one telling they're rigid-minded and unable to see outside their chosen perspective, goal or whatever niche of thinking they've attracted to

I've guessed idea in the J supremacy is in ignoring the evidence to the contrary. Narrow down your view, choose your own games and see how you're such a winner. Want to be the best in hola hooping? Heck, just J-ishly choose to do so. So you've got your goal, and after a few months of training, you're such a great talent. Bravo. No matter the other talents you've neglected to develop - see, you're not thinking about them. Such issues don't fit in your well-defined goals.

See the problem?

No?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

No?

The problem is not in the accomplishment, but in the choice. There are other choices to be made, leading to other accomplishments just as good as the one's they've chosen. These J supremacist are comparing their accomplishments in their self-selected, devoted field with others who aren't that devoted. Unable to see how anything else outside their chosen endeavors could be of any significance, they proclaim themselves as the winners.

J of course proclaim their standard of devotion is the most appropriate.

Simply, many people could not just care about what the J does well. That's less of a chance with a variety of fields where you engage in.

That's all different if you really want to be meaningfully accomplished in one area. Meaningful accomplishment - something that really matters - and feel-good accomplishment are in entirely different ballparks. I don't have a say which of the two, J or P, does them the best.

 

[Nadir]

Are you improving on the documentation, then?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Are you improving on the documentation, then?

Help me do it.

 

[Athenian200]

I'd admit to this.

But it's only because I don't want to burdened with thinking about all those other things, and having to jump for every opportunity that presents itself. I wouldn't be able to just work sufficiently towards one goal, and relax the rest of the time if I did that... I'd have to be "on" all the time, willing to push myself for stuff I didn't reserve any energy for.

Honestly, the main difference between J's and P's is this, IMO... P's make as many commitments as appeal to them, and let them slide till the last minute, even failing to do well or even complete some of them, making them look like slackers. But in reality, despite letting a lot of things slide, they got the same amount of things done, just not at the same level of quality, or as focused in the same direction.

J's (perhaps especially IJ's) avoid making extraneous commitments in the first place, often carefully choosing and minimizing their obligations so that they can put the most energy into the tasks they must have to do well at, and spend the rest of their time doing nothing in particular without risk of not meeting a goal. J's are willing to endure boredom and having too much time on their hands rather than take on more, risk having to rush through and not be sure of getting anything done. We may not procrastinate, but that doesn't mean we put all our time to good use, either.

So if I'm honest about it, I very much hesitate about taking on an obligation to something in the first place if I don't have to in order to reach a particular goal, but follow through with it if I do. P's don't hesitate about showing interest and taking the opportunity, but don't necessarily follow through once they do.

P's do have it worse, though. They feel kind of wasteful if they're not taking things on at full capacity (even if no one else cares about this), but then they also feel guilty if they fail to get something done (although less than a J). J's only feel guilty if they fail to get something they were expected to get done on or ahead of time, don't really want or need to fill themselves to capacity.

This could just be an IJ and IP thing, though. Don't know about EJ's or EP's too much...

 

[Haphazard]

J's (perhaps especially IJ's) avoid making extraneous commitments in the first place, often carefully choosing and minimizing their obligations so that they can put the most energy into the tasks they must have to do well at, and spend the rest of their time doing nothing in particular without risk of not meeting a goal. J's are willing to endure boredom and having too much time on their hands rather than take on more, risk having to rush through and not be sure of getting anything done. We may not procrastinate, but that doesn't mean we put all our time to good use, either.

Which explains how you get your IJ slackers, you know, like me.

N+1 posts on this forum show the attitude of supremacy on J's part. The one's I've most lolled at are them telling, "she's able to pay her rent, she must be J" and such. haHAHAHhhahah

Then there's the much documented view P's have of J's, one telling they're rigid-minded and unable to see outside their chosen perspective, goal or whatever niche of thinking they've attracted to

It's normally unreasonable to blame J for being narrow-minded. But then there's the case of self-evaluation of performance by arbitrary, self-chosen standards.

I've guessed idea in the J supremacy is in ignoring the evidence to the contrary. Narrow down your view, choose your own games and see how you're such a winner. Want to be the best in hola hooping? Heck, just J-ishly choose to do so. So you've got your goal, and after a few months of training, you're such a great talent. Bravo. No matter the other talents you've neglected to develop - see, you're not thinking about them. Such issues don't fit in your well-defined goals.

See the problem?

What makes your point of view more valid than mine?

So what if I'd rather be excellent at hula-hooping and terrible at soccer? Does it really matter? I don't play soccer. I don't even like soccer. Why would I hone my skill on something I don't care about, on something that's absolutely useless to me, on something that's not even enjoyable? Just to say that I could play soccer decently, as bragging rights? Am I really going to come into a situation in which learning to play soccer well will be an essential skill? Such a convoluted situation would not happen on my watch -- as a J, I choose my battles. There is no reason for me to learn to play soccer well, so I don't.

My perspective is that time is precious, so I only spend it on things I like to do or things I need to do. Doing everything for the sake of being able to do everything doesn't appeal to me -- if it appeals to you, then by all means, live your life that way. Just be prepared to be a jack of all trades, yet a master of none; as the ENTP is often known.

 

[redacted]

i wish being a J meant getting shit done/not procrastinating. that'd be sweet.

 

[Thursday]

i wish being a J meant getting shit done/not procrastinating. that'd be sweet.

P = Monkey See

J = Monkey Do

?

 

[nightwatcher]

Js pay there parking tickets on time, on the rare occasions when they actually get a parking ticket, which makes them the good guys. I’d rather be a P, though, and not have to worry about anything.

 

[Athenian200]

What makes your point of view more valid than mine?

So what if I'd rather be excellent at hula-hooping and terrible at soccer? Does it really matter? I don't play soccer. I don't even like soccer. Why would I hone my skill on something I don't care about, on something that's absolutely useless to me, on something that's not even enjoyable? Just to say that I could play soccer decently, as bragging rights? Am I really going to come into a situation in which learning to play soccer well will be an essential skill? Such a convoluted situation would not happen on my watch -- as a J, I choose my battles. There is no reason for me to learn to play soccer well, so I don't.

My perspective is that time is precious, so I only spend it on things I like to do or things I need to do. Doing everything for the sake of being able to do everything doesn't appeal to me -- if it appeals to you, then by all means, live your life that way. Just be prepared to be a jack of all trades, yet a master of none; as the ENTP is often known.

I think his point was more that J's thought their way was superior, and he was pointing out ways it could be a disadvantage in some situations. I don't think he meant to imply that P's were superior, so much as that their approach to life was equally valid. Basically, that J's aren't necessarily superior at everything that matters. Which I know to be the case. But I still prefer my way because it's easier for me.

Of course, if he does want to say P's are superior, I'm going to argue with him about it vehemently.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I think his point was more that J's thought their way was superior, and he was pointing out ways it could be a disadvantage in some situations. I don't think he meant to imply that P's were superior, so much as that their approach to life was equally valid. Basically, that J's aren't necessarily superior at everything that matters.

Yeah that's it, pretty much.

 

[Haphazard]

Yeah that's it, pretty much.

Whatever.

My view of the issue: I'm enjoying myself. If you're enjoying yourself, too, then go ahead and be that way.

But, if by some unfortunate twist of fate, I come to rely on you for something, you'd better fulfill your obligations, or else I'll tear your fucking eyes out.

 

[01011010]

But, if by some unfortunate twist of fate, I come to rely on you for something, you'd better fulfill your obligations, or else I'll tear your fucking eyes out.

LOL Exactly! I don't think their way of doing things is inefficient (as in meeting deadlines etc.), as long as it doesn't directly affect me.

Though, I do see the P's point of view. There is room in the world for all types of people. Each of us do our own job, in our own way. If any type was missing, the world would be off balance, certain things wouldn't get accomplished.

 

[Grayscale]

I think his point was more that J's thought their way was superior, and he was pointing out ways it could be a disadvantage in some situations. I don't think he meant to imply that P's were superior, so much as that their approach to life was equally valid. Basically, that J's aren't necessarily superior at everything that matters. Which I know to be the case. But I still prefer my way because it's easier for me.

Of course, if he does want to say P's are superior, I'm going to argue with him about it vehemently.

i think the problem here is that many people try to correlate a set of behaviors to J/P in an attempt to understand it, when i suspect is it more of an essence of someone's psychology that may often result in an output of similar behavior, leading people to use the behavior as the connotation rather than admitting that any claims are a huge guess. i'm P to the extreme but when it comes to certain things like diet, excercises, finances, etc. i can be fricken robotic!



with that said, we can toss aside the letters (which makes this discussion so much less personal for people!) and examine two approaches... pre-organization vs. on-the-fly.

when it comes to that, its my opinion that both have their strengths.

in my experience, pre-organization can be very inefficient and even pointless when overused... the two most common i can think of is when people want to plan something ahead of time but simply dont have the information to do so with any degree of accuracy, resulting in the entire plan being altered or thrown out when unforeseen circumstances arise. the other is organization for the sake of organization to the point where you spend more time organizing that you'd save from having said organization. the on-the-fly approach is much more efficient in these scenarios because it considers everything at that given moment.

on the other hand, i have found the organizational approach to be very effective when trying to accomplish something specific. with a clear goal in mind, this approach can boost efficiency through simply being prepared. for instance, booking travel reservations and tickets ahead of time saves money, having everything you need before you go out and do something prevents you from having to waste time going back for things you forgot, etc.


i think the best approach is a balance between the two. organization is an ideal--it'd be great if we could graph everything out ahead of time, unfortunately most people do not have the powers of comprehension to do so. that doesnt mean there isnt something to be gained by doing so when it comes to things we do know for sure, though.

 

[booyalab]

i wish being a J meant getting shit done/not procrastinating. that'd be sweet.

Sometimes I think I'm a J because I procrastinate but I rarely enjoy it. At the same time, I could never be a workhorse. I think too much. I'm always in limbo.

 

[JustDave]

The key is balance. Although I am not naturally regimented and tend towards procrastination I realized early on in life that following a basic schedule and planning certain things gives me a greater amount of overall freedom.