Should we be celebrating Christmas?

[Lord Lavender]

We are meaning creating animals, and we create the meaning of any liturgy, whether it is Christian, Judaic, Islamic, Hindu, Confucian, or the liturgy of sport.

And because we are meaning creating animals, any meaning we create is as natural as natural selection.

However we also create shared meanings. So it is important to know and understand the shared meanings we have inherited as our heritage.

And then as a recent and important part of our heritage is putting our shared meaning to the test of the Western Enlightenment of evidence and reason.

We have a rich heritage of meaning which we can now sift with evidence and reason.

And Christmas is an amazingly rich heritage of meaning which has informed us for two thousand years.

We don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, and certainly we don't want to throw out the vulnerable Christ child held in the arms of Mary and Joseph.

Christmas has lost its meaning. Santa is Satan in disguise. Think about it as he like the Snake in the garden of Eve tempts people away from piousity and virutie in favor of indulgence.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Christmas has lost its meaning. Santa is Satan in disguise. Think about it as he like the Snake in the garden of Eve tempts people away from piousity and virutie in favor of indulgence.

If you were trying to out church-lady me, congratulations! You did it! lol

Imo, Christians need to recognize this time of year as difficult and find ways of taking care of themselves. Also, most of us have people in our lives that are in worse shape than us, and they aren't all necessarily bible beaters. Some are. But anyways, they need to be taken care of to,nd that would be soemthing we do for ourselves as well as them.

 

[Ivy]

My mom (super fervent Christian lady) loved Christmas. She loved having a live tree and said the evergreen symbolized Christ's everlasting life. I don't think the origins mattered much to her, she made the holiday as Christian as it needed to be.

My little brother's wife makes a birthday cake for Jesus every Christmas.

 

[Lord Lavender]

If you were trying to out church-lady me, congratulations! You did it! lol

Imo, Christians need to recognize this time of year as difficult and find ways of taking care of themselves. Also, most of us have people in our lives that are in worse shape than us, and they aren't all necessarily bible beaters. Some are. But anyways, they need to be taken care of to,nd that would be soemthing we do for ourselves as well as them.

Its my inner xSFJ smother mother speaking out . Christmas I wish was more about helping others, I have no problems with gift giving as this brings joy to to others but when I see shit like Black Friday with kids getting trampled over for the sake of a 10% discount then it pisses me off and makes me think that people have become animals (I know we are animals biologically) in a moral and metaphysical way.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I am all for appropriating/stealing XMas and treating it as a cultural holiday rather than a religious holiday. My Jehovah's Witness business partner wouldn't mind either way.

 

[Ivy]

[MENTION=21203]Grand Admiral Crunch[/MENTION] you asked earlier about my family's traditions. My mom died last year so we're in flux. My mother's family usually gets together potluck-style and we eat and talk. It's very casual. Some people bring gifts for the kids but the adults don't exchange. My mom's sister brings little stuff to give out as Bingo prizes. Yes, we play Bingo on Christmas- it started as just something to do, and grew into sort of a tradition. I found some vintage Bingo cards with slidey windows at a thrift store a few years ago, so we don't even have to fuss with buttons or markers.

On my dad's side, my grandmother used to stuff a stocking for everybody on that side of the family, but she also died last year. Last year I did it but I don't think I'm going to do it this year since we're combining our celebrations with my mom and dad's side of the family, so there will be a lot more people. My grandmother used to make a dumb little craft for everyone some years so maybe I'll find a dumb little craft to do.

 

[Mole]

Christmas has lost its meaning. Santa is Satan in disguise. Think about it as he like the Snake in the garden of Eve tempts people away from piousity and virutie in favor of indulgence.

Christmas is replete with meaning. However if you are only informed by American popular culture, I can understand why you think Christmas has lost its meaning and Santa is Satan in disguise.

If you are only informed by American popular culture you are unlikely to think outside of received cliches.

And just listen: it is the old puritanism that rails against indulgence and in favour of piety. And interestingly, it is puritanism that underlies American popular culture, and the epidemic of meaninglessness.

 

[Mole]

I am all for appropriating/stealing XMas and treating it as a cultural holiday rather than a religious holiday. My Jehovah's Witness business partner wouldn't mind either way.

Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse has given Jehovah's Witnesses a Christmas present. For the Jehovah's Witnesses were the last to appear before the Commission before Christmas, and corroborated evidence given that 1006 complaints of child abuse were lodged with the Jehovah's Witnesses, but not one was given to the police.

The cover-up by Jehovah's Witnesses of child abuse is of staggering proportions.

 

[Mole]

I don't know if decorating a tree is a distraction from Christ. Some people see and feel God in all things, and they may point out that having a tree in their respective living rooms is simply another way to appreciate God's glory in His creations. Personally, I think chopping down a living being for frivolous reasons is tantamount to murder, but I can see their point.

I've always associated Christmas with the virtues of generosity and kindness. People are especially giving during the holidays, and I think those traits are very Christian.

A lovely Christmas present to give is The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben, click on The Hidden Life of Trees PDF - Peter Wohlleben.

 

[Mole]

The most unambiguous shared meanings come from the physical world that we all share. We may choose to celebrate it in different ways, or not at all, but the cycles of the earth are a reality for everyone living on the planet.

This may come as a surprise but the cycles of the Earth are a meaning created by us.

Perhaps the largest meaning of the cycles of the Earth is natural selection.

And as meaning creating animals we have been slowly and successfully selected over the best part of four thousand million years. So we have been selected for meaning because meaning makes us one of most adaptable of the large celled animals.

However my guess is that you are more interested in fetishising the cycles of the Earth as part of New Age theology.

And of course I believe in freedom of religion.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Christmas is replete with meaning. However if you are only informed by American popular culture, I can understand why you think Christmas has lost its meaning and Santa is Satan in disguise.

If you are only informed by American popular culture you are unlikely to think outside of received cliches.

It's a well-established fact that Santa is Satan. The problem is New Zealanders (or whatever the hell you are) are uneducated and sort of stupid. That's why you don't know what you're talking about.

And just listen: it is the old puritanism that rails against indulgence and in favour of piety. And interestingly, it is puritanism that underlies American popular culture, and the epidemic of meaninglessness.

Explain this or go slither back to your hole somewhere.

 

[Galaxy Gazer]

This thread gives me the warm-and-fuzzies. Probably an INFP thing. I feel like I've gotten a lot out of it though, like I will be a more compassionate person due to it.



Why do they shout around about it being Merry Christmas? What is wrong with Happy Holidays? Do you have any insight into it? Should they be saying Merry Christmas anyway? Christmas has been defined as being about Jesus' birth, but examining it as a derivative word, I think it means "death of Christ." I don't know if I'm right on this though. If I was, it would be like saying "Happy Batman Massacre Day!" It isn't really a happy thing.

Maybe, shouting "IT'S MERRY CHRISTMAS, NOT HAPPY HOLIDAYS!" gives them a feeling of fullness. Like suddenly, their celebration has a plot line.

From what I understand, I think it's just about Christians thinking they own the entire western world. Especially the US. Other people can't be included; it's a sign of the moral destruction of humanity *overdramatic gasp*

 

[Coriolis]

This may come as a surprise but the cycles of the Earth are a meaning created by us..

Humans didn't cause the cycle of the year, with the longest day and shortest day half a cycle apart, and days of equal day/night in between. Whatever meaning we choose to assign to these events, the events themselves are part of everyone's reality as life on earth.

 

[ceecee]

This may come as a surprise but the cycles of the Earth are a meaning created by us.

Perhaps the largest meaning of the cycles of the Earth is natural selection.

And as meaning creating animals we have been slowly and successfully selected over the best part of four thousand million years. So we have been selected for meaning because meaning makes us one of most adaptable of the large celled animals.

However my guess is that you are more interested in fetishising the cycles of the Earth as part of New Age theology.

And of course I believe in freedom of religion.

Just gonna leave this here if anyone needs to refer to it.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

The Fight Against '''Black Pete''', a Holiday Blackface Tradition - NBC News

Oh. I get it. It's like the confederate flag argument but in Dutch.

 

[ceecee]

Oh. I get it. It's like the confederate flag argument but in Dutch.

Right. I think so anyway. So it's like the rebel yell but with a bunch of vowels.

 

[Obfuscate]

Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse has given Jehovah's Witnesses a Christmas present. For the Jehovah's Witnesses were the last to appear before the Commission before Christmas, and corroborated evidence given that 1006 complaints of child abuse were lodged with the Jehovah's Witnesses, but not one was given to the police.

The cover-up by Jehovah's Witnesses of child abuse is of staggering proportions.

it annoys me that they make a big deal of calling God "jehova" when there is no j in the hebrew language... the name is most easily translated as YHWH... for that matter Jesus had the same name as "joshua"...

post script:

you can pronounce that as "yah-shoe-ah"

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I am all for appropriating/stealing XMas and treating it as a cultural holiday rather than a religious holiday.

What would such an undertaking entail and what would be the benefits? Would the government declare that certain elements of the holidays are non-religious? Or would it be something that would be popularized through consumerism, media or literature? The Christmas Carol story is responsible for the resurgence of Christmas celebrations. The public likely already shared the sentiment of it, which is why it was successful.

I suspect that atheists enjoy the Christian aspects of the holiday and they would feel the absence of it if it were taken away. Christianity is part of the mental-scape of atheists and I doubt they'd like to give it up.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

it annoys me that they make a big deal of calling God "jehova" when there is no j in the hebrew language... the name is most easily translated as YHWH... for that matter Jesus had the same name as "joshua"...

post script:

you can pronounce that as "yah-shoe-ah"

Hey buddy, this seems a little off-topic. Would you like a prompt related to the thread?

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Its my inner xSFJ smother mother speaking out .

She sounds like good people. Why'd she put up with you trolling your dad over Santa Claus? .....What do you think is the most evil aspect of this Santa Claus business? I think it's creepy that he sneaks into folks' houses and that he spies on children and all his magical powers. What if there's some demon harnessing all this spiritual energy so that he can fly around, break into our houses and kill us in our sleep? It's far-fetched. I would watch that movie.