Should we be celebrating Christmas?

[ceecee]

2016 Spode Holiday Newness & Collectibles - Serveware - Dining & Entertaining - Macy's

Look at this. Santa is at the top of that Christmas tree, where the star is supposed to be. Why? Because Santa=Satan and he needs to be above you so you can worship him.

I knew my preference for a big assed bow topper was the best choice of all.

 

[Mole]

The point is not the origin of Christmas tree. (origin is probably pagan or something like that I suppose)

Christianity took over many pagan holy days (holidays).

And not only holy days but the whole culture of pagan Greece.

The pagan culture of Ancient Greece formed the very basis and the raison d'etre of the European Renaissance.

The whole of Christianity has been shaped by the pagan culture of Ancient Greece, indeed the Christian Bible, the very Word of God, was first written in Ancient Greek.

 

[Frosty]

I love the grandma from National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation laughing when Clark can't get the lights on, and she says, "I hope you kids see what a waste of resources this is." I don't know if you'd do that. I think you're actually a nicer person than her, but that's what the above reminds me of.

Off topic a bit maybe but just want to say this is my absolute favorite christmas movie and one of my most favorite of all time movies probably too.

And now I just have to include the little bit where the father in law, after Clark has FINALLLY gotten them to work after all of that effort, says something like- 'I see a couple of those lights arent twinkling'- and Clark says its real kind of him to notice or something like that.

Anyways. Love that movie.

Just wanted to say that.

And yes. Celebrate Christmas. Do it in the way YOU want or feel is right, but a little joy goes a long way- and if a person finds some aspects of christmas unfavorable- dont celebrate them- just take this time- thats been given and permeates through most things- to enjoy yourself in whatever way works for you. If not celebrating xmas makes a person happier- than that- but shoulds and shouldnts in my opinion are up to the individual. Anyways.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Off topic a bit maybe but just want to say this is my absolute favorite christmas movie and one of my most favorite of all time movies probably too.

And now I just have to include the little bit where the father in law, after Clark has FINALLLY gotten them to work after all of that effort, says something like- 'I see a couple of those lights arent twinkling'- and Clark says its real kind of him to notice or something like that.

lol I forgot about that scene! Might be time to rewatch it again!

And yes. Celebrate Christmas. Do it in the way YOU want or feel is right, but a little joy goes a long way- and if a person finds some aspects of christmas unfavorable- dont celebrate them- just take this time- thats been given and permeates through most things- to enjoy yourself in whatever way works for you. If not celebrating xmas makes a person happier- than that- but shoulds and shouldnts in my opinion are up to the individual. Anyways.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I knew my preference for a big assed bow topper was the best choice of all.

Ahhh I wish you'd have said you had a star or an angel so I could scream SATAN! to that too. Satan will be displeased.

 

[Coriolis]

Christmas is part of the Christian liturgy that gives meaning to each day of the year.

Unfortunately the Christian liturgy has become meaningless for many of us, and as nature abhors a vacuum, the Christian yearly liturgy has been replaced by the yearly sports' liturgy.

And don't sneer at the sports' liturgy for in the 19th century it gave Oz its first taste of nationalism.

And today the sport's liturgy takes the place of the Christian liturgy, and gives meaning to each season of the year, and meaning to each week, as the liturgy of sports' competitions rolls on.

Some may feel, as the rich Christian liturgy rolls off into the past, to be replaced by the sports' liturgy on TV, that we have become impoverished.

Better to follow the liturgy of nature, like the Pagans. Then at least we are basing our celebrations on something real.

After I had grown up some, I found Christmas empty for a number of years before I figured this one out. Now I can see my own meaning in the customary celebrations, and enjoy them again.

 

[Galaxy Gazer]

These are all surprisingly good points, especially the last two. Fundamentalist Christians seem so fixated on making sure that the entire Christmas season is 100% about them and that no one else ruins it. Even pagans, who originally owned the holiday. And then we get idiots complaining about Starbucks cups or the phrase "happy holidays" or secular music in those choir concerts that happen right before break. It's like, you do realize that you're not the only people in this country (or others, for that matter), right?

I grew up in a fundamentalist family and have always been astonished by some of my relatives' level of self-righteousness. According to them, Christianity is the answer to everything, and literally everything else is evil and demonic. It's ridiculous.

That being said, as an agnostic (with some new age beliefs), I'll probably always celebrate Christmas. It's too hard not to when my SO and I both grew up celebrating it. If not, we'll switch to the winter solstice. The idea of snow, wintery food, brisk air, and chilling by the fireplace seems like a pretty decent reason to celebrate.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Better to follow the liturgy of nature, like the Pagans. Then at least we are basing our celebrations on something real.

After I had grown up some, I found Christmas empty for a number of years before I figured this one out. Now I can see my own meaning in the customary celebrations, and enjoy them again.

When you say real, you're meaning that it is naturally apparent and indisputable. There's another kind of real, though, that might be more personal, like these alien abductees will tell you. Just because one hasn't experienced an abduction doesn't mean that they don't happen and that people aren't suffering the side effects of them.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Christmas is like chocolate and candy. People will say it is pointless and just for fun and indulgence and yet those very same people will proceed to celebrate Christmas with impunity. I wonder what a pagan Europe would look like and the timeline implications of such.

 

[Obfuscate]

meh, it is what you make of it...

 

[Evo]

We should have a second Christmas late in June so we have both solstices covered.

No lol. Because I already don't like the implication that I'm obligated to buy people a "gift" once a year haha, lets not add to list please.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

These are all surprisingly good points, especially the last two.

This thread gives me the warm-and-fuzzies. Probably an INFP thing. I feel like I've gotten a lot out of it though, like I will be a more compassionate person due to it.

Fundamentalist Christians seem so fixated on making sure that the entire Christmas season is 100% about them and that no one else ruins it. Even pagans, who originally owned the holiday. And then we get idiots complaining about Starbucks cups or the phrase "happy holidays" or secular music in those choir concerts that happen right before break. It's like, you do realize that you're not the only people in this country (or others, for that matter), right?

I grew up in a fundamentalist family and have always been astonished by some of my relatives' level of self-righteousness. According to them, Christianity is the answer to everything, and literally everything else is evil and demonic. It's ridiculous.

Why do they shout around about it being Merry Christmas? What is wrong with Happy Holidays? Do you have any insight into it? Should they be saying Merry Christmas anyway? Christmas has been defined as being about Jesus' birth, but examining it as a derivative word, I think it means "death of Christ." I don't know if I'm right on this though. If I was, it would be like saying "Happy Batman Massacre Day!" It isn't really a happy thing.

Maybe, shouting "IT'S MERRY CHRISTMAS, NOT HAPPY HOLIDAYS!" gives them a feeling of fullness. Like suddenly, their celebration has a plot line.

 

[Yuurei]

No lol. Because I already don't like the implication that I'm obligated to buy people a "gift" once a year haha, lets not add to list please.

I just make people food. I love to cook, they love to eat. It works out for everyone.

 

[ceecee]

Why do they shout around about it being Merry Christmas? What is wrong with Happy Holidays? Do you have any insight into it? Should they be saying Merry Christmas anyway? Christmas has been defined as being about Jesus' birth, but examining it as a derivative word, I think it means "death of Christ." I don't know if I'm right on this though. If I was, it would be like saying "Happy Batman Massacre Day!" It isn't really a happy thing.

Maybe, shouting "IT'S MERRY CHRISTMAS, NOT HAPPY HOLIDAYS!" gives them a feeling of fullness. Like suddenly, their celebration has a plot line.

It's not just fundamentalists. My father is this way and there is no religious involvement on his part. I don't see how it matters, wish people whatever you like. If you're offended, eh. Be happy someone is extending kindness to you in some fashion.

December 12th (I think) is the birthday of the prophet for the Muslims so.....everyone can get in on the festivities this month!

I should add that anyone I know who gets on this MC/HH argument train, gets a solstice greetings - pagan holiday card.

 

[Evo]

I just make people food. I love to cook, they love to eat. It works out for everyone.

Seems as though you don't have an 8w9 sister with a 2 fix, that likes to hold things over your head?

Lucky

 

[Yuurei]

Seems as though you don't have an 8w9 sister with a 2 fix, that likes to hold things over your head?

Lucky

Haha. My sister is certainly not an 8 but she does hold everything over everyone. I just don't have to deal with her this year.

 

[Little_Sticks]

Donald Trump is going to Make Christmas Great Again by deporting all the atheists.

 

[Mole]

Better to follow the liturgy of nature, like the Pagans. Then at least we are basing our celebrations on something real.

After I had grown up some, I found Christmas empty for a number of years before I figured this one out. Now I can see my own meaning in the customary celebrations, and enjoy them again.

We are meaning creating animals, and we create the meaning of any liturgy, whether it is Christian, Judaic, Islamic, Hindu, Confucian, or the liturgy of sport.

And because we are meaning creating animals, any meaning we create is as natural as natural selection.

However we also create shared meanings. So it is important to know and understand the shared meanings we have inherited as our heritage.

And then as a recent and important part of our heritage is putting our shared meaning to the test of the Western Enlightenment of evidence and reason.

We have a rich heritage of meaning which we can now sift with evidence and reason.

And Christmas is an amazingly rich heritage of meaning which has informed us for two thousand years.

We don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, and certainly we don't want to throw out the vulnerable Christ child held in the arms of Mary and Joseph.

 

[Coriolis]

We are meaning creating animals, and we create the meaning of any liturgy, whether it is Christian, Judaic, Islamic, Hindu, Confucian, or the liturgy of sport.

And because we are meaning creating animals, any meaning we create is as natural as natural selection.

However we also create shared meanings. So it is important to know and understand the shared meanings we have inherited as our heritage.

The most unambiguous shared meanings come from the physical world that we all share. We may choose to celebrate it in different ways, or not at all, but the cycles of the earth are a reality for everyone living on the planet.

 

[Ursa]

I don't know if decorating a tree is a distraction from Christ. Some people see and feel God in all things, and they may point out that having a tree in their respective living rooms is simply another way to appreciate God's glory in His creations. Personally, I think chopping down a living being for frivolous reasons is tantamount to murder, but I can see their point.

I've always associated Christmas with the virtues of generosity and kindness. People are especially giving during the holidays, and I think those traits are very Christian.