Scientology

[pure_mercury]

Anyone involved/formerly involved? One of my closest friends is really getting into it (like, not drinking for "auditing," giving them small amounts of money for things). Most things online are propaganda one way or the other.

P.S. We need a one-word nickname for posters here, the way FreeRepublic has "freepers." "Meebers" doesn't sound good to me. "Typos?"

 

[spirilis]

No thanks, I'll take atheism.


One of the funniest things I saw on my trip to Silicon Valley last week was a "DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY LIFE IMPROVEMENT CENTER" shop along Castro St. in Mountain View. The scary part is there actually were people in there during the evening, from what I could see through the windows. Rather square people dressed all neat standing at podiums with their arms crossed in front looking down reading something with a few folks sitting there staring at them mesmerized. Freaky.

 

[CzeCze]

Is your friend troubled or at a transitory phase in their life?

Scientology on the surface can seem helpful. When you need guidance, any self-help mumbo jumbo can honestly help you -- a lot of it is based superficially on terms and premises that psychology covers. Kind of how fad diets base their claims loosely on established medical knowledge or published studies. And then spins it out of control.

The funny thing with Scientology is that they HATE psychologists -- and no wonder because psychology as a profession probably debunks the helll out of Scientology.

I am not a nihilist or an atheist, I think people bash relligion way too much, especially having no personal experience with it, almost out of a juvenile need to beat sacred cows. If I don't believe it myself, I leave it alone and I have no inherent beef with religion.

But, Scientology is NOT a religion!!!

It's a scam! Feel free to throw rocks.

If they would just admit they are a new age 'consciousness raising' group and leave it at that, I wouldn't have much interest in them. There are lots of similar groups springing from the same 1 or 2 transpersonal mumbo jumo gurus from the 70s. One is Est. The other is Foundation. I also think most people
who follow Scientology are tools to be honest.

I worked with a Scientologist once. She was definitely a tool. I can understand why she was looking so badly for 'something' that would make her better. I've attended Scientology 101, bought and read the books, watched the movie, spoken to a counselor, been audited (it's a lie detector test, just monitors your physical/electrical response to things). I've also gotten approached by 'Jews for Jesus' and people handing out copies of the Bhagavada Gita. I think I look like a con man's dream.

Again, I know I sound way judgemental, and probably like the anti-religious people who accuse Christians of being 'mindless sheep'. Maybe I'm not verbalizing well, I actually do respect religion for what it is, but Scientology is NOT a religion! And the fact it pretends to be (it's for the tax breaks people, religious institutions in the US are tax exempt) or others are presumptuous and gullible enough to call it their religion and equate it Buddhism or Islam or Chrisitianty pisses me off. It seems very disrespectful and ignorant of actual religion. Like people who rock Kabbalah tattoos :rolli:

Honestly, if my friend started getting initially involved, I would try to point them to other things. Like I said, on the surface Scientology might seem like "it works" but it uses stuff based on traditional psychology (though they would never admit it) and new age consciousness raising movements. If they like the back and forth and introspeective nature of Scientology, find a trusted therapist, join a Buddhist group, or try out a Quaker meeting. Seriously.

There is a way too much kool-aid and not a small amount of deception associated with Scientology and I would seriously not want my friends too involved with them. My feeling is that they lure you in with superficial trappings and then hook you with the 'real' meat of Scientology.

Then again, maybe I'm just a hater.

 

[nemo]

Ridiculous cult.

Normally I don't give a crap what other people believe, but their antagonism towards modern medicine is potentially harmful to their members. And they make you pay inordinate amounts of money to progress through their bridge to total freedom.

Plus, if you show the slightest bit of antipathy towards your friend's religion, you'll be disconnected and never see them again. They do this to family members too.

If you want to piss them off, ask why there's a picture of an exploding volcano on the cover of Dianetics.

I'd encourage your friend to stay away, personally.

 

[The Ü™]

After I saw Battlefield Earth, I have resisted it at all costs.

 

[nemo]

Also, stuff like this pisses me off to no ends:

"[Jenna Elfman] refused to attend a celebrity autograph fund raiser for children with AIDS because, 'AIDS is a state of mind, not a disease', due to Scientology's slant on disease control."

 

[Kiddo]

If you have seen one organized religion, you have seen them all.

 

[Falcarius]

SCIENTOLOGY AND ME (part 1) ,(part 2) ,(part 3), and (part 4).

 

[pure_mercury]

Ridiculous cult.

Normally I don't give a crap what other people believe, but their antagonism towards modern medicine is potentially harmful to their members. And they make you pay inordinate amounts of money to progress through their bridge to total freedom.

Plus, if you show the slightest bit of antipathy towards your friend's religion, you'll be disconnected and never see them again. They do this to family members too.

If you want to piss them off, ask why there's a picture of an exploding volcano on the cover of Dianetics.

I'd encourage your friend to stay away, personally.

Way too willful a guy to listen. I do ask questions and I am generally skeptical, but he is not the soft-headed type. I think that one of the main reasons for his interest was that so many people badmouth Scientology. He is determined to find out for himself. I told him to watch his wallet and to remain a skeptic in general, but if he is enjoying himself, I don't feel that it would be right to pooh-pooh that (and I don't know a tremendous amount myself, nothing firsthand but an e-meter reading when I was in Hollywood).

 

[Geoff]

Is your friend troubled or at a transitory phase in their life?

Scientology on the surface can seem helpful. When you need guidance, any self-help mumbo jumbo can honestly help you -- a lot of it is based superficially on terms and premises that psychology covers. Kind of how fad diets base their claims loosely on established medical knowledge or published studies. And then spins it out of control.

The funny thing with Scientology is that they HATE psychologists -- and no wonder because psychology as a profession probably debunks the helll out of Scientology.

I am not a nihilist or an atheist, I think people bash relligion way too much, especially having no personal experience with it, almost out of a juvenile need to beat sacred cows. If I don't believe it myself, I leave it alone and I have no inherent beef with religion.

But, Scientology is NOT a religion!!!

It's a scam! Feel free to throw rocks.

If they would just admit they are a new age 'consciousness raising' group and leave it at that, I wouldn't have much interest in them. There are lots of similar groups springing from the same 1 or 2 transpersonal mumbo jumo gurus from the 70s. One is Est. The other is Foundation. I also think most people
who follow Scientology are tools to be honest.

I worked with a Scientologist once. She was definitely a tool. I can understand why she was looking so badly for 'something' that would make her better. I've attended Scientology 101, bought and read the books, watched the movie, spoken to a counselor, been audited (it's a lie detector test, just monitors your physical/electrical response to things). I've also gotten approached by 'Jews for Jesus' and people handing out copies of the Bhagavada Gita. I think I look like a con man's dream.

Again, I know I sound way judgemental, and probably like the anti-religious people who accuse Christians of being 'mindless sheep'. Maybe I'm not verbalizing well, I actually do respect religion for what it is, but Scientology is NOT a religion! And the fact it pretends to be (it's for the tax breaks people, religious institutions in the US are tax exempt) or others are presumptuous and gullible enough to call it their religion and equate it Buddhism or Islam or Chrisitianty pisses me off. It seems very disrespectful and ignorant of actual religion. Like people who rock Kabbalah tattoos :rolli:

Honestly, if my friend started getting initially involved, I would try to point them to other things. Like I said, on the surface Scientology might seem like "it works" but it uses stuff based on traditional psychology (though they would never admit it) and new age consciousness raising movements. If they like the back and forth and introspeective nature of Scientology, find a trusted therapist, join a Buddhist group, or try out a Quaker meeting. Seriously.

There is a way too much kool-aid and not a small amount of deception associated with Scientology and I would seriously not want my friends too involved with them. My feeling is that they lure you in with superficial trappings and then hook you with the 'real' meat of Scientology.

Then again, maybe I'm just a hater.

I've had a fair amount of involvement with them in a professional capacity here in the UK. Not something I bought into as a result - the people creeped me out, quite frankly.

Previously they didn't have exempt tax status in the UK, but it looks like that might chance.

Scientologists set to cash in on tax break -Times Online

Can't say I'd give them an exemption as a charity... every penny they make should be taxed, in my opinion.

 

[Wandering]

After I saw Battlefield Earth, I have resisted it at all costs.

Can you believe I actually READ that thing :rolli: ?! At almost every single page, I'd tell myself "It will get better, it will start getting interesting... Next page... Next chapter..." But no. I got to the end of the book, and I realised I'd just forced myself to wade through one of the most thoroughly boring books ever written, simply out of sheer idealism, simply because I couldn't believe that a book could be that boring and still be that famous In a way, I'm almost proud of myself: I read Battlefield Earth, and I survived

 

[The Ü™]

Can you believe I actually READ that thing :rolli: ?! At almost every single page, I'd tell myself "It will get better, it will start getting interesting... Next page... Next chapter..." But no. I got to the end of the book, and I realised I'd just forced myself to wade through one of the most thoroughly boring books ever written, simply out of sheer idealism, simply because I couldn't believe that a book could be that boring and still be that famous In a way, I'm almost proud of myself: I read Battlefield Earth, and I survived

I just saw the movie. And when I discovered that Scientologist aliens wear shoe laces sticking out of their noses for their breathing support, you can't take them seriously.

Same goes for Tom Cruise and especially Isaac Hayes when he played Chef on South Park. South Park is designed to purposely make fun of everyone and everything, but the people who get bent out of shape are not blacks, Latinos, Jews, or Christians, they are an underground subculture of publicity whores.

Now I'm not entirely sure what Scientology is about, but when the most obnoxious celebrities are a member of it, it's impossible for anyone to take it seriously.

 

[swordpath]

Scientology is a sham. So stupid. People are stupid.

 

[Geoff]

Can you believe I actually READ that thing :rolli: ?! At almost every single page, I'd tell myself "It will get better, it will start getting interesting... Next page... Next chapter..." But no. I got to the end of the book, and I realised I'd just forced myself to wade through one of the most thoroughly boring books ever written, simply out of sheer idealism, simply because I couldn't believe that a book could be that boring and still be that famous In a way, I'm almost proud of myself: I read Battlefield Earth, and I survived

I enjoyed the book. I was about 14. So.. perhaps you aren't (and I am no longer) its target audience?

 

[OK Radio]

Scientology is a money-making cult, as said by many commentators before me.

I have been applauding the efforts of Anonymous, a loose band of internet users who have expanded beyond the efforts of the 4-chan-based DDOS attackers into a peaceful and effective group of protesters.

A concise introduction into the movement is shown here:
YouTube - The Road To February 10, 2008 (part 1 of 2)
YouTube - The Road To February 10, 2008 (part 2 of 2)

The above is a two part video chronicling the events leading up to the original protest against Scientology by Anonymous which took place on February 10, 2008. A second protest is planned for March 15, 2008.

I believe in freedom of religion. If you believe an alien overlord called Xenu trapped alien souls (thetans) by putting them into volcanoes on Earth (otherwise known as Teegeeak) and exploding them with atomic bombs, which led them to cluster together and cling to modern day humans and cause all psychological and physical ailments, that's fine by me.

I do care about the exploitation of the lower members of Scientology. I care about a tax exempt status being granted to an organization which is not a church or a charity. I care when an organization charges its members hundreds of thousands of dollars to read their sacred scriptures. I care about families torn apart by the Scientologist practice of disconnection or disassocation from a person's family and friends if they're not on board with Scientology. I care about the practice of fair game in which any critic of Scientology can be tricked, lied to, or destroyed.

It's not enough to me to say people are stupid. Scientology makes a practice of preying upon people at their weakest moments. Narconon and Criminon are two front groups for Scientology that specifically target addicts and criminals, two sectors of society that are not easily integrated. Scientology has sent volunteer ministers to New York after 9/11, London after the London bombings, and New Orleans and the Gulf Coast after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita to give "touch assists" and block the efforts of psychologists and therapists in those areas.

Many ex-Scientologists, heartened by the recent protests, have begun to speak out against the organization. Please read Ex-Scientology Kids and Enturbulation.org

 

[CzeCze]

All right, why even pretend -- jumping on the bandwagon with a nice long rant

^^

Full on freaky.

I was actually going to post an episode of 'Law and Order: SVU' based on a cult that turned teenage girls into 'carriers for cloned babies' because I think it was partly basedon Scientology -- but the truth is freakier than fiction

BTW, is that what the volcanoes are all about?

OMMFG!

:yim_rolling_on_the_

Is there an emoticon that can laugh even more hysterically at absurdia?

You all know L. Ron Hubbard was a pulp sci-fi fiction writer..right? Does no one else notice the striking similarities between his science fiction yarns and scientology scripture?

I knew about lord xenu before though I still don't quite believe Tom Cruise sincerely believes that but my ex-roommate was a hardcore anti-scientologist and anti-cultist in general. Some Scientologists were recruiting in a popular downtown spot for yuppies and young people and he confronted them about lord xenu and all the other scientologist lore and they got miffed, said, "that's just a rumor, we don't really believe that" and skulked away.

Thanks for the post -- if you didn't already have so many posts, I'd have almost thought you were an anti-Scientologist 'spammer' (or just part of another cult sabotaging the competition)

I totally agree -- they are MAD SHADY. And it is NOT, I repeat NOT a freakin' religion. Any and in fact every 'member' has to sign up and pay for classes. It takes A LOT of classes to reach a lot of levels to get to 'lord high commander' in the ranks. It's worse than the Boy Scouts.

I remember even seeing the chart with the levels thinking, wow, this is NOT be a religion nor should it be tax-exempt with all the money it's making.

I would talk critically about them some more, but now I'm scared. Thanks a lot.

Pure_Mercury, find out whatever your friend is getting from Scientology and steer him in another direction. Scientology initially lures a lot of people in with a 'free personality test' and promises to help you get over common phobias and anxieties. It totally is retro pseudo-scientific malicifent 'transpersonal psychology' (i.e. cult) wrapped up in the Scientology brand. You could even turn him onto MBTI or the Ennegram.

Or take the suggestions I made before with attending a Quaker meeting or hell Sufism, even good old fashion hippie spirit journeys are better and much less malevolent than Scientology.

I remember my atheist/agnostic/Jewish friend almost turned to Lutheranism during a time she really was looking for spirituality in general.

There are times in people's lives where you just really need something or are "searching" in general. Sometimes you find something or someone wonderful, sometimes you hold onto whatever is nearest you, and sometimes you become fodder for cults, scam artists, codependency and assholes in general. Especially true for people in their 20s and younger who in a generational way are looking for identity, guidance, acceptance and 'something interesting to do' with our time.

Luckily, your friend has you.

BTW, the story of Scientologists going to trauma sites and blocking therapists incenses me. This is the kind of stuff that elevates Scientology from harmless 'consciousness raising' fringe group to straight on cult institution with illusions of heralding the next Maitreya (I'm relatively well versed in cults, I know who the maitreya is, though I lose count of the 'groups' that say the maitreya has arrived/is living as their leader/will be arriving at a set date and time).

BTW -- are there any Scientologists on this forum? I guess it would be a horrible gaff on my part to be ridiculing and characterizing your belief system in such a horrible way, but I'm sorry I cannot respect Scientology as a religion or even as an upright business venture. I was trying to for the sake of open-mindedness and a balanced response to Mercury's OP. But....I just keep thinking of those volcanoes

But, if you could enlighten us and share with us on this forum, I know I'd personally appreciate it.

If someone else wants to start a thread on cults in general, go for it, or else I'm seeing this thread seguing a bit into general cult territory.

 

[pure_mercury]

^^

Full on freaky.

I was actually going to post an episode of 'Law and Order: SVU' based on a cult that turned teenage girls into 'carriers for cloned babies' because I think it was partly basedon Scientology -- but the truth is freakier than fiction

BTW, is that what the volcanoes are all about?

OMMFG!

:yim_rolling_on_the_

Is there an emoticon that can laugh even more hysterically at absurdia?

You all know L. Ron Hubbard was a pulp sci-fi fiction writer..right? Does no one else notice the striking similarities between his science fiction yarns and scientology scripture?

I knew about lord xenu before though I still don't quite believe Tom Cruise sincerely believes that but my ex-roommate was a hardcore anti-scientologist and anti-cultist in general. Some Scientologists were recruiting in a popular downtown spot for yuppies and young people and he confronted them about lord xenu and all the other scientologist lore and they got miffed, said, "that's just a rumor, we don't really believe that" and skulked away.

Thanks for the post -- if you didn't already have so many posts, I'd have almost thought you were an anti-Scientologist 'spammer' (or just part of another cult sabotaging the competition)

I totally agree -- they are MAD SHADY. And it is NOT, I repeat NOT a freakin' religion. Any and in fact every 'member' has to sign up and pay for classes. It takes A LOT of classes to reach a lot of levels to get to 'lord high commander' in the ranks. It's worse than the Boy Scouts.

I remember even seeing the chart with the levels thinking, wow, this is NOT be a religion nor should it be tax-exempt with all the money it's making.

I would talk critically about them some more, but now I'm scared. Thanks a lot.

Pure_Mercury, find out whatever your friend is getting from Scientology and steer him in another direction. Scientology initially lures a lot of people in with a 'free personality test' and promises to help you get over common phobias and anxieties. It totally is retro pseudo-scientific malicifent 'transpersonal psychology' (i.e. cult) wrapped up in the Scientology brand. You could even turn him onto MBTI or the Ennegram.

Or take the suggestions I made before with attending a Quaker meeting or hell Sufism, even good old fashion hippie spirit journeys are better and much less malevolent than Scientology.

I remember my atheist/agnostic/Jewish friend almost turned to Lutheranism during a time she really was looking for spirituality in general.

There are times in people's lives where you just really need something or are "searching" in general. Sometimes you find something or someone wonderful, sometimes you hold onto whatever is nearest you, and sometimes you become fodder for cults, scam artists, codependency and assholes in general. Especially true for people in their 20s and younger who in a generational way are looking for identity, guidance, acceptance and 'something interesting to do' with our time.

Luckily, your friend has you.

BTW, the story of Scientologists going to trauma sites and blocking therapists incenses me. This is the kind of stuff that elevates Scientology from harmless 'consciousness raising' fringe group to straight on cult institution with illusions of heralding the next Maitreya (I'm relatively well versed in cults, I know who the maitreya is, though I lose count of the 'groups' that say the maitreya has arrived/is living as their leader/will be arriving at a set date and time).

BTW -- are there any Scientologists on this forum? I guess it would be a horrible gaff on my part to be ridiculing and characterizing your belief system in such a horrible way, but I'm sorry I cannot respect Scientology as a religion or even as an upright business venture. I was trying to for the sake of open-mindedness and a balanced response to Mercury's OP. But....I just keep thinking of those volcanoes

But, if you could enlighten us and share with us on this forum, I know I'd personally appreciate it.

If someone else wants to start a thread on cults in general, go for it, or else I'm seeing this thread seguing a bit into general cult territory.

The YouTubes of the BBC guy from Panorama screaming at Tommy Davis (when actually watching the whole thing) are rather disturbing. Showing up at someone's hotel room unannounced (and when he did not tell you where he was staying) is really weird. Not something I would want a representative of my organization doing.

 

[swordpath]

I bet soon Scientology will become a new hipster trend, like being a vegan or something.

I can only hope not.

 

[CzeCze]

The YouTubes of the BBC guy from Panorama screaming at Tommy Davis (when actually watching the whole thing) are rather disturbing. Showing up at someone's hotel room unannounced (and when he did not tell you where he was staying) is really weird. Not something I would want a representative of my organization doing.

I'm watching the show now, thanks!

Actually, if he's an investigative journalist and especially if he's accusing Tommy Davis or Scientology in general of stalking/harassment/invasion of privacy (which I think he kinda was) then that's totally makes sense.

I'm guessing he was 'turning the tables' on Tommy Davis and trying to give him a taste of his own medicine and showing him that he's not afraid of the Scientologists.

I have to see the entire episode, but for now I disagree. That's exactly the kind of fearless, in your face behavior I would want an investigative reporter to exhibit. Then again, I am naturally inclined to journalism and salesmanship so perhaps our sense of boundaries are different.

I also think Tommy Davis may have purposely been goading mr. Panorama into that kind of behavior. It does look unprofessional in that he raised his voice and lost his temper, but then again, judicious (and even well-planned) use of emotional outbursts can work to a public figure's advantage.
I'd be interested to know what the british public's reaction was.

Edit:
Wait -- OMG -- it was the Scientologists who showed up at Sweeney's hotel room????



That makes so much sense now and confirms what I suspected in my first paragraph. They're trying to intimidate him.

BTW:

1) Now my opinion of Scientology has moved from benign fringe group to all out freaky malovent cult.

2) Isn't it interesting how Tommy Davis is a Tom Cruise look-a-like???

For some reason I think they like dark haired men of average to short stature...if that's you, you should totally sign up because you'll probably be a stud and they'll give you a harem.

3) Shawn Lonsdale, the anti-Scientology critic was found dead at age 39 in his house...SUSPICIOUS.

 

[pure_mercury]

I'm watching the show now, thanks!

Actually, if he's an investigative journalist and especially if he's accusing Tommy Davis or Scientology in general of stalking/harassment/invasion of privacy (which I think he kinda was) then that's totally makes sense.

I'm guessing he was 'turning the tables' on Tommy Davis and trying to give him a taste of his own medicine and showing him that he's not afraid of the Scientologists.

I have to see the entire episode, but for now I disagree. That's exactly the kind of fearless, in your face behavior I would want an investigative reporter to exhibit. Then again, I am naturally inclined to journalism and salesmanship so perhaps our sense of boundaries are different.

I also think Tommy Davis may have purposely been goading mr. Panorama into that kind of behavior. It does look unprofessional in that he raised his voice and lost his temper, but then again, judicious (and even well-planned) use of emotional outbursts can work to a public figure's advantage.
I'd be interested to know what the british public's reaction was.

Edit:
Wait -- OMG -- it was the Scientologists who showed up at Sweeney's hotel room????



That makes so much sense now and confirms what I suspected in my first paragraph. They're trying to intimidate him.

BTW:

Now my opinion of Scientology has moved from benign fringe group to all out freaky malovent cult.

BTW:

Isn't it interesting how Tommy Davis is a Tom Cruise look-a-like???

For some reason I think they like dark haired men of average to short stature...if that's you, you should totally sign up because you'll probably be a stud and they'll give you a harem.

Yeah, he is Anne Archer's son, so another celeb character with too much money and free time. And I am only 5'10", but I have light brown hair (I have dyed it black on occasion, though). They probably wouldn't want me until I make it Hollywood. Plus, my drug detox rundown would probably turn their hair white.