Bush
cute lil war dog
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
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- sp/so
In MBTI terms -- most certainly narrowed down to NxFeTi. I solicited a few years back (and won ENFJ), and now I'm especially wondering what the new blood comes up with. The main beef I have with ENFJ is that Ti-last doesn't seem to make any goddamned sense, and it was in fact a thread on inferior Ti that made me question. However, pretty much every single ENTP quote on this page triggers my gag reflex. And I'm nowhere near special enough for INFJ. So, an impasse.
I wrote a reply out to [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION]'s reply in a Socionics thread, and it became way too goddamned long to not just stick in a "Type me." Hence this thread.
For context (and giggles), here's the post he's referencing:
His reply and my counterreply:
I swear to Christ that, when I type things like "screw the emotional atmosphere, screw dramatics, screw aesthetics," I'm not also sitting at my desk all teary-eyed throwing vases and glasses everywhere. Honestly, my exaggeration is almost never a product of anger or other strong emotions.
When exaggeration isn't fueled by strong emotion [size](drama! dramatics! oh how doth thouest hurt me. yea this river shalt be my tomb forevermore if you don't pick up the phone next time I call)[/size], it may very well be fueled by imagination. A world where everything is all taken totally ad absurdum is, of course, absurdly amusing -- and the material universe triggers a short excursion from time to time. I also imagine that an Ni type can get pretty impatient. If, in their mind, they 'know' what the outcome of a situation will be, they may just want that outcome to happen already so that they can just move on to the next thing. Perhaps almost as if they feel they're outpacing the present and the world has to play catch-up.
I'm on board with that. I also understand that an Ni-er will choose an option but continue to "doubt" (i.e. test) that option. Touche, Socionics.
But I have trouble with tying some of these traits to certain IMs. For instance, it seems that fixating upon developing stable interpersonal relationships would, stereotypically, land in Fi territory -- someone who values Fi would fixate upon those (and may look for "the one" to come and save them..?). Additionally, someone with a vulnerable Fi could very well be overloaded by feels and dramatics, too; and arguably much more quickly than an Fe-ego, who is allegedly capable of controlling the overall emotional atmosphere and so by nature should be able to handle it.
(And I can't help but notice that you like bold as much as I like italics for emphasizing -- or exaggerating! -- words or phrases that would carry an inflection when you're actually speaking.)
However, I do want to clarify something:
Really, the signature is a knock on the sort of pretentious attitude that would lead someone to hold such a signature in earnest. A total exaggeration. (If I recall correctly, Michael Scott from The Office is a good example of that attitude? Maybe?)
So the collection of words in the signature aren't me directly describing myself. But I'm sure they're indirectly descriptive. For one, there's the adage "Don't bullshit a bullshitter"; I'm not exactly a stranger to these sorts of tactics. For two, well -- Hyperbolic? Check. Dramatic expression of a strong, subconscious value? Yeah.
Here's the skinny.
And although I don't care about carrots touching peas -- that is, keeping one's own MBTI and Socionics types aligned logically so that everything just fits -- I should mention that ENFJ is one of the MBTI types that others (and I) have seen in myself. That can be (very reluctantly) taken as strengthening the case for Socionics' ENFj. (I may have to start a "type me" thing.)
You also certainly had me at "dialectical-algorithmic." As evidenced, I'm clearly suggestible while at the same time wanting some definition; and I had no idea that there was a term for that. I liken it to throwing a lot of junk into the hallway closet and pushing like hell to try to close the door.
I wrote a reply out to [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION]'s reply in a Socionics thread, and it became way too goddamned long to not just stick in a "Type me." Hence this thread.
For context (and giggles), here's the post he's referencing:
Virtually all of of the professional Socionics folks who've dug into me (e.g. interviews) have pegged me as LIE (ENTj). Really, I can see either γ-Ni type (ENTj, INTp) as feasible.
I could also see ENTp, but I'd ultimately nix it because having to engage with its Super-id IMs (Si and Fe) make me want to stab myself. That is, screw the emotional atmosphere, screw dramatics, screw aesthetics, and screw "listening to my body." It's my impatience that forces me to avoid that stuff whenever possible. (And if I could live without having to eat or work out or sleep, I totally would just toss those things in the garbage.)
However, that typing messes with consistency and fries some folks' brains and makes them angry but tough titties to them. I'm always open to other perspectives, though, so long as they're not motivated by some hilarious outcry that carrots and mashed potatoes shouldn't touch each other on the plate.
His reply and my counterreply:
I strongly agree on exaggeration and hyperbole and dramatic output.Hmm. I think I'll avoid delicacy, here, and just say that this post screams ENFj to me. Powerful Ni in ENFj's creative (2nd Function, part of ENFj's FeNi ego) function position is demonstrated by Ni's desire to limit options (i.e. "no, not that type," "no, not that type," "no, not that type,"), and I see you doing that while keeping an open mind (very mentally flexible--still open to other options, a typical feature of dialectical-algorithmic cognition (EIE) and not the causal-deterministic thinking that typifies LIE). Hyperbolic, performative language ("x fries people's brains," "x makes me want to stab myself," "hilarious outcry") comes naturally to ENFj (but ENTp can do that too). These words were also indicative: "screw the emotional atmosphere, screw dramatics, screw aesthetics." ENFj feels too much as is. We often have to limit the amount of raw F that we just naturally absorb, and you express, quite dramatically (like an ENFj performer), that desire. I also hate drama in my life, and that's typical of an ENFj because we value, more than anything else, stable interpersonal relationships. I share your aversion to interpersonal drama, as one would expect from an ENFj.
What really tipped me off though was this: "I could live without having to eat or work out or sleep, I totally would just toss those things in the garbage." Same here. Juvenile Si. I consider both sleep and eating to be a waste of time, and I wouldn't do them unless I had to. That's strong N (time sense) combined with an impending sense that there's never enough time. Both Gamma and Beta experience this feeling (as decisive types), but Gamma (LIE, ENTj) should be more focused on problem-solution thinking, whereas I see "emoting" and evaluation in this post. You show strong, but subconscious, Fi values (i.e. "It's silly to be obsessed with keeping food separate on your plate."), but they're expressed through some powerful and dramatic Fe OUTPUT.
I swear to Christ that, when I type things like "screw the emotional atmosphere, screw dramatics, screw aesthetics," I'm not also sitting at my desk all teary-eyed throwing vases and glasses everywhere. Honestly, my exaggeration is almost never a product of anger or other strong emotions.
When exaggeration isn't fueled by strong emotion [size](drama! dramatics! oh how doth thouest hurt me. yea this river shalt be my tomb forevermore if you don't pick up the phone next time I call)[/size], it may very well be fueled by imagination. A world where everything is all taken totally ad absurdum is, of course, absurdly amusing -- and the material universe triggers a short excursion from time to time. I also imagine that an Ni type can get pretty impatient. If, in their mind, they 'know' what the outcome of a situation will be, they may just want that outcome to happen already so that they can just move on to the next thing. Perhaps almost as if they feel they're outpacing the present and the world has to play catch-up.
I'm on board with that. I also understand that an Ni-er will choose an option but continue to "doubt" (i.e. test) that option. Touche, Socionics.
But I have trouble with tying some of these traits to certain IMs. For instance, it seems that fixating upon developing stable interpersonal relationships would, stereotypically, land in Fi territory -- someone who values Fi would fixate upon those (and may look for "the one" to come and save them..?). Additionally, someone with a vulnerable Fi could very well be overloaded by feels and dramatics, too; and arguably much more quickly than an Fe-ego, who is allegedly capable of controlling the overall emotional atmosphere and so by nature should be able to handle it.
(And I can't help but notice that you like bold as much as I like italics for emphasizing -- or exaggerating! -- words or phrases that would carry an inflection when you're actually speaking.)
However, I do want to clarify something:
tbh I didn't invent the iPhone 7 and I'm neither a Lieutenant or a canonized saint.Your signature also feels very ENFj to me. It starts with an expressed Fi value ("Forgive my typos."), and that's indicative of a person who will beat himself (or herself) up mercilessly for violating one's own Fi value system, and an ENFj hates to do that. It's followed by an Fe attempt to affect the "mood" of others ("Lol.") Then there's a line that, if meant in jest, is an obvious Fe attempt to affect mood. Either that, or it's like the credentials listed below it (aristocratic, prestige-driven, Beta values) that Alphas and Gammas typically do not share. In fact, they often perceive such behavior as unnecessary (since, being democratic, they see all of us as equal) or obnoxious (show-off behavior) that they poorly tolerate. Thus, Alpha (ENTp, ILE) and Gamma (ENTj, LIE) seem unlikely for you. [...] Your final signature quote, furthermore, is gorgeous and idealistic--highly emotive, and very typical of an ENFj. You even self-attribute it,
Really, the signature is a knock on the sort of pretentious attitude that would lead someone to hold such a signature in earnest. A total exaggeration. (If I recall correctly, Michael Scott from The Office is a good example of that attitude? Maybe?)
So the collection of words in the signature aren't me directly describing myself. But I'm sure they're indirectly descriptive. For one, there's the adage "Don't bullshit a bullshitter"; I'm not exactly a stranger to these sorts of tactics. For two, well -- Hyperbolic? Check. Dramatic expression of a strong, subconscious value? Yeah.
Here's the skinny.
Many a startup CEO, department lead, motivational speaker, etc. envisions him/herself as an.. envisioner.. who inspires and leads and mentors. And, well -- they'd just get right down into the trenches with their employees and they aren't afraid of the dirty work and dammit we can all pull this off we're all tugging on this rope together and you can do it I believe in you. Synergy. Impact. Leadership. Vision. Dreams.
The millions of stations/positions they list in their email signatures are intended to convey importance. Invariably, you'll see something along the lines of "Discoverer" or "Explorer" or "Lifelong Learner" as a way to convey humility -- and that, along with a saccharine uninspired (and often self-referencing) quote, conveys wisdom and a keen eye toward personal growth. They have a whole lot of wonderful insight to share, of course, but hey; they're clearly not arrogant enough to think they know all the answers, and they're humble enough to admit it. And since they're all out in the world visioning and synergizing and leadershipping, they would of course not have time to sit down at a computer -- they're just totally on the go all the time. And they have a sense of humor! And so you'll invariably see "Forgive my typos my thumbs did it lol" as another humblebrag.
These folks clearly never got past Marketing Yourself 101.
The millions of stations/positions they list in their email signatures are intended to convey importance. Invariably, you'll see something along the lines of "Discoverer" or "Explorer" or "Lifelong Learner" as a way to convey humility -- and that, along with a saccharine uninspired (and often self-referencing) quote, conveys wisdom and a keen eye toward personal growth. They have a whole lot of wonderful insight to share, of course, but hey; they're clearly not arrogant enough to think they know all the answers, and they're humble enough to admit it. And since they're all out in the world visioning and synergizing and leadershipping, they would of course not have time to sit down at a computer -- they're just totally on the go all the time. And they have a sense of humor! And so you'll invariably see "Forgive my typos my thumbs did it lol" as another humblebrag.
These folks clearly never got past Marketing Yourself 101.
There's this, though.Besides which, most of your writing in this post is emotive, emotionally-charged, and evaluative (F) rather than problem-solution oriented (T).
The whole "NEW! Now --" is another branding joke, but perhaps also indirectly telling. Regardless, I have been told that I do go through "reincarnations." Guilty.I note that the words above your avatar, "NEW! Now with more tert," also hint toward an ENFj typing as ENFj is known for regularly re-inventing or reincarnating itself in some way.
And although I don't care about carrots touching peas -- that is, keeping one's own MBTI and Socionics types aligned logically so that everything just fits -- I should mention that ENFJ is one of the MBTI types that others (and I) have seen in myself. That can be (very reluctantly) taken as strengthening the case for Socionics' ENFj. (I may have to start a "type me" thing.)
You also certainly had me at "dialectical-algorithmic." As evidenced, I'm clearly suggestible while at the same time wanting some definition; and I had no idea that there was a term for that. I liken it to throwing a lot of junk into the hallway closet and pushing like hell to try to close the door.