Random Politics Thread

[The Cat]

Then pull your heads out of your asses and get them back into the game.

On your feet friends. This isnt the time to lose heart.
​

 

[Red Herring]

From a certain point of view; One side won essentially because its base didnt spend life skipping pep rallies as a point of pride.

I was baffled when I saw how low voter turnout was this time around. I mean, I am aware that it tends to be lower in the US but expected it to be at least as high if not higher than 2020. What the actual fuck?! Dems staying at home basically sealed the deal (and tore a good chunk of the planet down with them!).

I am torn between coming up with some sort of pep talk for my American online friends, telling them that theirs is still a beautiful country and that while they may have lost a battle the war isn't over, etc and a strong sense of anger, bitterness and disdain. A majority of Americans seems to really want this. They know what they are getting and they either love it or they focus on one issue and don't give a damn about the rest. The only thing I have an even harder time understanding is the people who decided to not even cast a vote in all this. How can you be undecided or not care?????????????????????????

 

[The Cat]

I was baffled when I saw how low voter turnout was this time around. I mean, I am aware that it tends to be lower in the US but expected it to be at least as high if not higher than 2020. What the actual fuck?! Dems staying at home basically sealed the deal (and tore a good chunk of the planet down with them!).

I am torn between coming up with some sort of pep talk for my American online friends, telling them that theirs is still a beautiful country and that while they may have lost a battle the war isn't over, etc and a strong sense of anger, bitterness and disdain. A majority of Americans seems to really want this. They know what they are getting and they either love it or they focus on one issue and don't give a damn about the rest. The only thing I have an even harder time understanding is the people who decided to not even cast a vote in all this. How can you be undecided or not care?????????????????????????

Its the thing that I cant seem to wrap my head around and makes me Basil Fawlty levels of angry. Because no matter how you slice it comes down to: "You had ONE job. Keep the power mad would be despot out of the big chair. It'll be easy you said. The other side is a bunch of chuckle head dumb fucks who don't understand what is good for them you said. AND YET, here we all are standing around with our dicks in our hands wondering how it all came to this. You're fucking fired, and you can't come to the next fourth of ju-luau!"

Its maddening.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I was baffled when I saw how low voter turnout was this time around. I mean, I am aware that it tends to be lower in the US but expected it to be at least as high if not higher than 2020. What the actual fuck?! Dems staying at home basically sealed the deal (and tore a good chunk of the planet down with them!).

I am torn between coming up with some sort of pep talk for my American online friends, telling them that theirs is still a beautiful country and that while they may have lost a battle the war isn't over, etc and a strong sense of anger, bitterness and disdain. A majority of Americans seems to really want this. They know what they are getting and they either love it or they focus on one issue and don't give a damn about the rest. The only thing I have an even harder time understanding is the people who decided to not even cast a vote in all this. How can you be undecided or not care?????????????????????????

To tell you the truth I am wondering how many people voted as they voted due to suicidal urges. Like, I don't have the guts to pull the trigger myself so I will do it indirectly through voting.


I am afraid that the truth is much darker than it seems.

 

[Totenkindly]

So is there an official tally on how many votes were expected? I know close to 140 million have been counted. I know there's probably 8 million more to be counted in California, but I'm not sure about other states.

In 2020, there were about 160 million cast, which was 66% of the eligible vote pool.
What was it this year? Significantly less? (and it should have been more.)

I'm just kind of shocked by that, after all the talk about how the lines were horribly long, and there seemed to be a large turnout.
Also shocked independents registered as a larger voting pool than Dem, although I don't know how many folks from both parties switched to "Independent" designation in the last four years.

I mean, fuckitall, if Dems didn't show up in quantities at least matching 2020, then they deserve ridicule.
But the major shifts in voting from 2020 do show a significant switch in Latino and non-white/latino/black support.

 

[ygolo]

The signal is too strong. The popular vote seems to also be breaking for Trump.

IMO, the "irideemable" narrative foisted on Trump voters and undecided is what lost the election for Harris.

"I won't listen to you!, I just can't! VOTE FOR ME!" is clearly a losing campaign message.

Despite what Kamala Harris was putting out, and I believe her policy and message was pitch perfect, she was drowned out by people on her side screaming that loser of a campaign message.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Btw. the Dems seriously need to stop with the public crying after lost elections. Since that only fuels "let's make the libs cry" narrative. What evidently shouldn't be the point of elections and why people vote. This way you simply get that every jerk votes against you for the sake of a "prank".

 

[The Cat]

Btw. the Dems seriously need to stop with the public crying after lost elections. Since that only fuels "let's make the libs cry" narrative. What evidently shouldn't be the point of elections and why people vote. This way you simply get that every jerk votes against you for the sake of a "prank".

Yeah it also comes across to me as double or nothing the street criers are the ones who stayed home for whatever reason.

 

[Stigmata]

mood today:

With what looks to be a Republican trifecta in Congress, Alito and Thomas will surely retire, shoring up a conservative controlled Supreme Court for a generation. A national abortion ban is completely on the table, and they'll assuredly scrap the filibuster to push it through. The right has admitted that they were full of shit about not implementing Project 2025, and there's nothing we can do a bout it to stop it now.

Americans: People will die because of this, but hey, eggs and bread will be cheaper....right?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

What I'd like to know is whether or not they won a single vote with that lame stunt they pulled with the immigration bill. The one where the Republicans refused to sign it, and the Democrats acted like this was a big gotcha, and continued to bring it up throughout election season to say "Oh, actually we're the party that really cares about being tough on immigration."

I didn't think that would work. Do you know why? It's a lot like John Kerry trying to position the Democratic Party as the party that actually cares about the War on Terror. Nobody cared about that, either, and Bush won the popular vote.

(It's entirely possible that stunts like that actually lose voters.)

I also think the assassination attempts helped him.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

mood today:

With what looks to be a Republican trifecta in Congress, Alito and Thomas will surely retire, shoring up a conservative controlled Supreme Court for a generation. A national abortion ban is completely on the table, and they'll assuredly scrap the filibuster to push it through. The right has admitted that they were full of shit about not implementing Project 2025, and there's nothing we can do a bout it to stop it now.

Americans: People will die because of this, but hey, eggs and bread will be cheaper....right?

Only the eggs and bread will probably not be cheaper unless we see a major economic crash

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

I will play.


My diagnosis:


1. The message just wasn't clear enough and therefore it got lost in the mess that is social media. For me that is evidently number one reason.

2. Deficit of details and practical talking points, the so called bread and butter issues. There are plenty of those that are openly suffering due to inflation related problems. This really is valid talking point that people care about..

3. Don't start legal battles against Trump if you can't finish them and lock him up. This way you just made a victim out of the guy and mobilized his base. Complete miss.

4. The Dems should have had genuine open primaries and prepare for this battle. While what happened was basically "improvisation".

5. No one even tried to explain why wining the war in Ukraine is vital for America's position in the world and how losing that one will lower the wages for average people. No one even tried to go into that direction.

6. Reminding people what every branch of the government does, so that people realize what is actually at stake.

7. Way too many celebrities in the whole mix. This is all way too serious that you should give these people mic half of the time. In a sense by doing this you are loosing contrast towards Trump. Who is basically a celebrity turned politician.

8. Explaining to people in detail what was wrong with Trump's first presidency.

9. Doing and proposing more on the border and public safety. Especially since this is actually pretty big issue for women. Possibly even more than abortion.

10. She should have went to Joe Rogan show, just to show that she has guts. You can't do the top job if you don't have guts. How the heck will you talk with Vladimir Putin if you can't talk to Joe Rogan ?


Etc.


Overall .... way too many improvisations on the go.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I’m going to need to take a break from politics for a bit. I know things are rough and it’s awfully privileged of me to be able to just tune things out, but I don’t really want to see that smug face or hear the third grade level speech coming from that idiot’s mouth, for the sake of my mental health; trust me, we’ll be hearing a lot from him for the next four years. Stay engaged and aware of what’s happening, but Don’t let this guy live rent free in your heads. Keep voting and remember the midterms are not that far off and we have a couple of offyear state elections coming up as well. This battle was lost but remember that the war is not over.

I’m going to binge on a shitload of MST3K, starting with Parts: The Clonus Horror

 

[ceecee]

What is extra strange is that many people voted for Trump and for their blue senators. Which one by one are getting their races called and they are getting their senate seats (in the swing states that Trump won).

I am sorry but to me this logic of voting just doesn't make any sense. Thus I am truly convinced that the electorate by decent margin just doesn't understand how the system works and what is the point of all this.

lol They think it's some kind of "check". These are usually people that are still delusional about bipartisan politics.

 

[Red Herring]

Surprisingly accurate summary of our multiparty landscape:

There has been a new addition since this video was made (a pro-Russian anti-immigrant populist left). And obviously not all of these parties are represented in parliament.

 

[Coriolis]

What I'd like to know is whether or not they won a single vote with that lame stunt they pulled with the immigration bill. The one where the Republicans refused to sign it, and the Democrats acted like this was a big gotcha, and continued to bring it up throughout election season to say "Oh, actually we're the party that really cares about being tough on immigration."

I didn't think that would work. Do you know why? It's a lot like John Kerry trying to position the Democratic Party as the party that actually cares about the War on Terror. Nobody cared about that, either, and Bush won the popular vote.

(It's entirely possible that stunts like that actually lose voters.)

I also think the assassination attempts helped him.

It's because people don't care about, or bother to find out, the facts. Caring about a problem isn't the same as coming up with an effective solution. If Republicans really did care about border security, they would not have killed the immigration bill. Sure, they cared about terrorism, but the cost of their solutions was too steep. If the GOP were more than a personality cult at this point, their representatives in congress would not be so spineless as to have caved to Trump's demands on this. This is the problem.

Members of the two parties have long disagreed on policies and even priorities. People within each party will also. Much of the time, though, they have been able to work together to compromise. Over the past generation, though, compromise has become a dirty word, and holding a divergent view has been labelled unpatriotic if not downright evil. Harris' rhetoric on this topic ("we all have more in common than what divides us") is right on the money here, though people were not receptive to it given how much effort the personality cult put into sowing division.

I wonder if it will eventually come out that Trump's own campaign, or at least wealthy supporters, were behind the assassination attempts. They almost look like they were designed to fail.

 

[Coriolis]

I will play.


My diagnosis:


1. The message just wasn't clear enough and therefore it got lost in the mess that is social media. For me that is evidently number one reason.

2. Deficit of details and practical talking points, the so called bread and butter issues. There are plenty of those that are openly suffering due to inflation related problems. This really is valid talking point that people care about..

3. Don't start legal battles against Trump if you can't finish them and lock him up. This way you just made a victim out of the guy and mobilized his base. Complete miss.

4. The Dems should have had genuine open primaries and prepare for this battle. While what happened was basically "improvisation".

5. No one even tried to explain why wining the war in Ukraine is vital for America's position in the world and how losing that one will lower the wages for average people. No one even tried to go into that direction.

6. Reminding people what every branch of the government does, so that people realize what is actually at stake.

7. Way too many celebrities in the whole mix. This is all way too serious that you should give these people mic half of the time. In a sense by doing this you are loosing contrast towards Trump. Who is basically a celebrity turned politician.

8. Explaining to people in detail what was wrong with Trump's first presidency.

9. Doing and proposing more on the border and public safety. Especially since this is actually pretty big issue for women. Possibly even more than abortion.

10. She should have went to Joe Rogan show, just to show that she has guts. You can't do the top job if you don't have guts. How the heck will you talk with Vladimir Putin if you can't talk to Joe Rogan ?


Etc.


Overall .... way too many improvisations on the go.

Harris did go on Fox News. For a die-hard Trump voter, though, nothing she or another candidate could do would be enough.

Everyone keeps pointing to the economy, and how Harris' plans lacked detail. I don't disagree, but Trump provided even fewer plans and details, and what he did present was 1) often incoherent or jumbled up with completely unrelated content, or 2) more likely to exacerbate the problems. Huge tariffs on imports is one specific proposal he kept mentioning, but the cost would be passed on to consumers, increasing prices even further for the affected goods, and if significant enough to trigger a trade war, would have had even more negative consequences. Trump inherited a strong economy from Obama, then trashed it with the help of the pandemic and his almost willfully ignorant approach to it. Biden managed to get things headed back in the right direction, but the average person isn't feeling the effects yet. Trump can ride this for a year or two before he trashes things again.

Your items 1, 2, 5, 6, and 8 assume the American people have the stomach for actually hearing out and digesting detailed, fact-based analysis, even when presented concisely in a 2-3 minute review. Sadly, many do not, which is not unrelated to serious deficiencies in our education system, but that is another issue. How do you get them to focus for that long, and give what you are saying at least as much credibility as the rants of a Donald Trump? It is bread and circuses, pure and simple. Trump entertains and promises a few more dollars in your pocket. We will have to wait for him to fail to deliver big on that, AND cause alot more suffering that manages to get through a press he threatens to muzzle and an internet the likes of cronies Musk and Bezos can all too easily manipulate.

 

[Totenkindly]

^^ going along with that, I feel like the economy was a good excuse. Americans are great at displacement and projection. If the economy was even better, there would have been other reasons to justify this if people just did not blame "the economy" regardless. Note how Biden really did not have huge victories in 2020 in the swing states even after Trump let a million people die from COVID and bulloxed that and a lot of other issues at the time as well. Every day for months had been a day of horror of new dramas and atrocities.

You've got a ton of people who still firmly believe the 2020 election was stolen.
How can one combat a firehose of misinformation that can't be turned off?

I feel like this really started back with the Moral Majority and trickle-down economics of the 80's, then the creation of Fox News and talk radio and fomenting of ongoing hatred against Democrats and the Clintons in the 90's. It just took many years to build and pay off.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Harris did go on Fox News. For a die-hard Trump voter, though, nothing she or another candidate could do would be enough.

Everyone keeps pointing to the economy, and how Harris' plans lacked detail. I don't disagree, but Trump provided even fewer plans and details, and what he did present was 1) often incoherent or jumbled up with completely unrelated content, or 2) more likely to exacerbate the problems. Huge tariffs on imports is one specific proposal he kept mentioning, but the cost would be passed on to consumers, increasing prices even further for the affected goods, and if significant enough to trigger a trade war, would have had even more negative consequences. Trump inherited a strong economy from Obama, then trashed it with the help of the pandemic and his almost willfully ignorant approach to it. Biden managed to get things headed back in the right direction, but the average person isn't feeling the effects yet. Trump can ride this for a year or two before he trashes things again.

Your items 1, 2, 5, 6, and 8 assume the American people have the stomach for actually hearing out and digesting detailed, fact-based analysis, even when presented concisely in a 2-3 minute review. Sadly, many do not, which is not unrelated to serious deficiencies in our education system, but that is another issue. How do you get them to focus for that long, and give what you are saying at least as much credibility as the rants of a Donald Trump? It is bread and circuses, pure and simple. Trump entertains and promises a few more dollars in your pocket. We will have to wait for him to fail to deliver big on that, AND cause alot more suffering that manages to get through a press he threatens to muzzle and an internet the likes of cronies Musk and Bezos can all too easily manipulate.

From what I noticed Fox and Rogan aren't exactly the same thing (even in the terms of audience). After all the argument was about showing guts, so if you skip one that is kinda missed opportunity. Of course that she lost by too much that a chat with Rogan would have saved her. However this is exactly why I made 10 point argument. Because it is evident that there was more than one thing that is responsible for the result.


But to be honest I find your post to be self defeating. I constantly hear this "All of my countrymen are idiots!" on this forum and to me this is just wrong approach. Especially since no one really tried to talk genuine common sense with the public (in detail). Not to mention that there is still something like 100 000 000 grown up citizens who aren't voting. Therefore the odds are that many of these aren't voting because campaigns think that all people are idiots. In other words you are forgetting that these elections where basically lost in the 3 mid western states by a few points. So yeah, not everyone has to like your "complex approach" but this approach could very easily get you over the line in key areas. If anything you can split the campaign into two versions. One for average Joe and one for those that have the developed intellect. Someone simply has to start and plenty of extra people will hook up.