Random Politics Thread

[ceecee]

Fun fact, I'm Canadian. So I don't have a direct dog in this fight but the governance of the elephant next door has a big impact on the Canadian economy and to some degree on Canadian politics. In case you are wondering why I have so many opinions on US politics. I really want Trump out of the picture because he drives Canadian politics too far to the left in a misguided attempt by Canadian voters to appear more 'enlightened'.

I would support DeSantis over Trump, but I don't care for him either. Lesser evil kind of deal. Tim Scott seems reasonable and even Pence would be tolerable, but I figure neither of those guys has a chance. So in theory, I would support DeSantis as nominee if I could. But I would only vote for him in the election if Biden was on the other side.

I didn't notice you were an INTP until just now.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What about them appeals to you?

I know that this isn't directed at me and I can't pass as DeSantis supporter for a whole bunch of reasons. However I will answer this anyway because there is a part of this story that average American doesn't really notice (and I am obviously not an American). In other words today I watched my local evening news and they finally introduced DeSantis in the section about global events. Since to the average viewer the American politics is only interesting at the top of federal level, especially since that is what actually defines foreign and trade policies. However they introduced the DeSantis as some kind of a offset guy and almost as a person of hope or change. What is because the narrative is clearly against Trump. He is chaotic, he toys with global stability with 2 AM tweets, he likes some of the dictators, he is crashing US from within ... you know his reputation. Therefore as he rocks the US that is how he also rocks global problems and global trade. What many don't like for obvious reasons. While on the other hand Biden is generally seen as "He is OK guy ... but that is about it". Therefore as there is pretty clear rise of China in global affairs it is becoming obvious that it is going to be US that will lead some kind of a coalition against it. Therefore since many around the world what to save Democracy at the most basic level and stay away from harm there is this "fantasy" that USA will produce new Regan and that everything will be OK.



Therefore out of all people who have realistic shot in 2024 DeSantis is pretty clearly the closest to the ideal that is in demand. In other words there is pretty decent chance that large part of the world will start to cheers for DeSantis and that through internet could actually spill into public opinion inside of USA. Sure, he will throw gay people under the bus but at least there will be some kind of a stability in the world. Especially since he will try to turn the ship around and prevent US default from ever happening (since he is evidently fiscally conservative). While default is something that would objectively wreck havoc on the global economy. So long story short: there is kinda the global social need for someone like DeSantis to lead the USA. After all the internet has spread " anti woke" ideas all across the globe. What is kinda why I was saying that we should be careful with the polls, since there is interest or potential interest for the guy in the much broader picture. So for may business people, establishments and devoted Christians around the world the desired candidate out of top 3 is almost surely DeSantis. Therefore if they activate through just random personal comments on the internet that could easily start turning things around in the polls. US general elections is something that is being watched all across the world since it is one of the most impactful variables in the global political system (and it is one of the least defined ones). So engagement from so many groups could offset some traditional understandings of US primaries. After all plenty of those people will not experience directly many of his policies. What is very important part of the equation of why someone might like the guy.

 

[SensEye]

What about them appeals to you?

I assume you mean Scott or Pence?

It's still a case of "lesser evil" but I did see a Scott campaign add (short 30 second one) where his message is:

“Today’s kids are growing up immersed in a culture where everyone’s a victim. “We need to start teaching the necessity of individual responsibility. “If you are able-bodied, you work,” Scott continues. “If you take out a loan, you pay it back. If you commit a violent crime, you go to jail.

I agree with his sentiments here, and I personally consider the victim mentality promoted by the far left to be toxic.

On the other hand, both Scott and Pence are Jesus junkies, ergo, social conservatives. Which I am not. I don't really care at all about gender issues (in the sense consulting adults can do whatever they want, the state should stay out of it). I am definitely pro abortion. In general, I believe in separation of church and state. Religious sentiments should never drive government policy.

As far as Pence goes, same issue with social conservatism, but I figure in general, he would run things about the same as Bush Jr. Not great, but nowhere near as bad as Trump.

Given how far off the rails the Republican party is today with Trump, it will probably take some time to get things back on track. So I view Scott/Pence as a step halfway back to sensibility. DeSantis is only a baby step in that direction. His only appeal is he is not Trump.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

Bruh...Ron DeSantis...how on earth did you manage to botch a presidential announcement so spectacularly? Seriously, could you not have simply gone with a conventional campaign announcement, complete with a supportive crowd, however small or large? No, you had to take it to a new level of cringe, attempting to present yourself as "hip" and savvy because you decided to do it on Twitter Spaces. Let's be honest here, charisma was never your strong suit, and your interpersonal interactions are almost always painfully contrived. Now, you've practically gone out of your way to obliterate any momentum you gained from your victory as the Governor of Florida.

 

[The Cat]

Bruh...Ron DeSantis...how on earth did you manage to botch a presidential announcement so spectacularly? Seriously, could you not have simply gone with a conventional campaign announcement, complete with a supportive crowd, however small or large? No, you had to take it to a new level of cringe, attempting to present yourself as "hip" and savvy because you decided to do it on Twitter Spaces. Let's be honest here, charisma was never your strong suit, and your interpersonal interactions are almost always painfully contrived. Now, you've practically gone out of your way to obliterate any momentum you gained from your victory as the Governor of Florida.

Assistant Principal Lamar Bone has never been good at audio video stuff

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeah, that was totally anticlimactic start of a presidential campaign.

 

[ceecee]

Bruh...Ron DeSantis...how on earth did you manage to botch a presidential announcement so spectacularly? Seriously, could you not have simply gone with a conventional campaign announcement, complete with a supportive crowd, however small or large? No, you had to take it to a new level of cringe, attempting to present yourself as "hip" and savvy because you decided to do it on Twitter Spaces. Let's be honest here, charisma was never your strong suit, and your interpersonal interactions are almost always painfully contrived. Now, you've practically gone out of your way to obliterate any momentum you gained from your victory as the Governor of Florida.

Putting your launch in the hands of an idiotic oligarch who fired everyone that could have made it work, sort of speaks to the incredible economically focused individuals the GOP pumps out. The end result was so on brand, it couldn't have been scripted better.

 

[ceecee]

I assume you mean Scott or Pence?

It's still a case of "lesser evil" but I did see a Scott campaign add (short 30 second one) where his message is:


I agree with his sentiments here, and I personally consider the victim mentality promoted by the far left to be toxic.

On the other hand, both Scott and Pence are Jesus junkies, ergo, social conservatives. Which I am not. I don't really care at all about gender issues (in the sense consulting adults can do whatever they want, the state should stay out of it). I am definitely pro abortion. In general, I believe in separation of church and state. Religious sentiments should never drive government policy.

As far as Pence goes, same issue with social conservatism, but I figure in general, he would run things about the same as Bush Jr. Not great, but nowhere near as bad as Trump.

Given how far off the rails the Republican party is today with Trump, it will probably take some time to get things back on track. So I view Scott/Pence as a step halfway back to sensibility. DeSantis is only a baby step in that direction. His only appeal is he is not Trump.

Tim Scott isn't married and has no children. This is a major strike against him. Pence, nothing but a Cristo-fascist that's completely untrustworthy to the GOP voters. I lol at who you think has the victim mentality - conservatives base motivation is fear. Fear of any kind of change, It's why they are conservatives. And everyone is out to get them.

But you have your own creeping authoritarianism to worry about. And you have the Queen of Canada. Options galore.

 

[The Cat]

 

[SensEye]

I'm not implying Scott or Pence (or any of the other bit players in the Republican nominee race so far) have a chance. It's almost certainly going to be Trump again, with DeSantis having a long shot chance. I figure a number of them are just running to split the vote so Trump's base can carry the day. It will be interesting to see when the bit players start to pull out if they support Trump or DeSantis.

And yes, Canada's own moronic leader (Justin Trudeau) gets me as worked up as Trump. Even more so as his inept leadership impacts me directly. Not much point in discussing him here though.

 

[The Cat]

​

 

[Virtual ghost]

Trumpers are getting creative fast: DeSantis is a DeSaster

That could stick.

 

[ceecee]

I still like Meatball Ron.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662121139764879360

 

[The Cat]

I still like Meatball Ron.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662121139764879360

I wonder what scandal she's trying to get ahead of...

 

[Stigmata]

Trumpers are getting creative fast: DeSantis is a DeSaster

That could stick.

The Right absolutely has the nickname/nursery rhyme party messaging system down pat.

That said, I'm more of Meatball Ron kinda guy myself -- Ron DeSanctiminious doesn't quite flow off the tongue the same way. I've also seen Rhonda thrown out there as well lately.

 

[Stigmata]

Also despite all the nursery rhyme nick names, these people do actual material harm to marginalized communities with their rhetoric and policies, and all the cutesy nicknames really do is minimize the impact of what is actually taking place in this country at the state level.

All the snarky reddit/Twitter posts and "gotcha!" memes where we catch them being hypocrites don't mean anything in the face of no material resistance to their extreme agenda -- these people don't give one shit about being perceived as hypocritical or any sort of ideological consistency.

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But yeah I think Meatball Ron is easily the best one.

 

[ceecee]

The Right absolutely has the nickname/nursery rhyme party messaging system down pat.

That said, I'm more of Meatball Ron kinda guy myself -- Ron DeSanctiminious doesn't quite flow off the tongue the same way. I've also seen Rhonda thrown out there as well lately.

Generally these are poorly made but not this one.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662443538791952384

 

[Red Herring]

So the strategic plan against Ron DeSantis is to call him a woman (because obviously nothing is more insulting and demoralising than being called a woman)? Oh, goody.

 

[The Cat]

So the strategic plan against Ron DeSantis is to call him a woman (because obviously nothing is more insulting and demoralising than being called a woman)? Oh, goody.

more implying that he's in the closet while protesting lgbtq+ especially the drag and trans community. Stigmata is right, its hoping that the right has a sense of hypocrisy when the denial is too deep for an aknowledgement of hyprocrisy beyond a successful political tactic, its a wasted ploy that might make him feel embarressed and funny inside, but will likely just lead to further projection from him rather than any reflection. but in dystopia you take your yuks where you can find them...

 

[Coriolis]

more implying that he's in the closet while protesting lgbtq+ especially the drag and trans community. Stigmata is right, its hoping that the right has a sense of hypocrisy when the denial is too deep for an aknowledgement of hyprocrisy beyond a successful political tactic, its a wasted ploy that might make him feel embarressed and funny inside, but will likely just lead to further projection from him rather than any reflection. but in dystopia you take your yuks where you can find them...

Examples of hypocrisy abound on the right, and no one seems to care. When you try to promote yourself as a devout practicing Christian, that's not hard to do. Truly following the message of Jesus takes more effort, compassion, and true selflessness than most politicians of any flavor can muster.

Speaking of which, and since this is a "random" thread: I realized what is conspicuously missing from these debates/discussions. That is the religious, especially Christian argument for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Some states are actually passing laws to suppress DEI. The left has focused on keeping church and state separate, which our Constitution requires and is a wise approach. In terms of motivating individuals to get on board with more inclusive policies, though, an appeal that draws on religious motivations may reach more people. Just ask the question that used to be on everything from coffee mugs to necklaces: What Would Jesus Do???