Random Politics Thread

[The Cat]

Kinda reminds me of this.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Kansas 2024 Presidential Election Polls


Someone finally dared to poll Kansas and this is much closer than it "should" be.
Although they have a blue female governor, so the state perhaps isn't all that red anymore.

 

[SensEye]

What do you meant by "duopoly"? The only liberal democratic countries that I can thinke of that basically have a two party system are the US and the UK.

Just the US if you ask me. UK has multiple viable parties even though the big two dominate. However, if one of them went completely off the rails (like say they appointed a fascist or a senile octogenarian as leader) if would be completely viable for large numbers of supporters to support an alternative party without feeling they wasted their vote.

 

[ceecee]

Kansas 2024 Presidential Election Polls


Someone finally dared to poll Kansas and this is much closer than it "should" be.
Although they have a blue female governor, so the state perhaps isn't all that red anymore.

Not since they came out of their Brownback period.

The ghost of Sam Brownback haunts Kansas politics, but memories fade quickly • Kansas Reflector

Do you remember Sam Brownback? Ordinary looking guy, happened to serve as Kansas governor for a couple of terms. He resigned in 2018 to become the Trump administration’s ambassador for religious freedom. He was also, for a handful of years, the great bogeyman of Kansas politics. His tax-cutting...

kansasreflector.com

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I do think there is a difference between competing opinions or beliefs which none the less exist in an inclusive context, I think the idea of democracy that a lot of US presidents had, despite the franchise being restricted to a privilege few for so long (like anywhere else), was an inclusive one. Theodore Roosevelt was big on elections being a contest, with winner and losers, though he never could be mistaken for one of the Trump style "everyone else is a traitor", or worse, one party in power and the rest in prison, type thing.

Duopoly has become the norm for most electoral democracies and I definitely do think that is exploited by some politicians to realise dreams of a sort of managed democracy, without disruption or surprises, unfortunately the only challenger to that has been the sham populism of crooks like Trump.

I can understand people being sick of duopoly or suspicious that the consensus between politicians will be for a sham contention whole they rob the bank but no way tax cuts for billionaires or buying another politicians a yacht is going to be worth a faux challenge to the duopoly.

Duopolies could just be one of the "final working out" of a limited and limiting democracy, whether you call it electoralism, politics or any of the republican ideas of "managed democracy" or "libertarian democracy" or "republic vs democracy", though ultimately I think the right wing tendency is to dispense with it in favour of monopoly, even if succession planning is impossible to a regime like that ("after me the flood").

I would like proportional representation because I want somewhere else to take my vote that's not the party that will burn civilization to the ground, which is actually putting it mildly. Politicians treat what they do as a series of transactions. Why shouldn't voters be allowed to do that, and move their support to a different party if they aren't cutting it? Voters need to be able to use their votes as a bargaining chip to be effective as a force.

I understand that there are coalitions in countries that implement this, so this would blunt the effects of proportional representation. Presumably whatever party I would be voting for in such a system, though, would include the voices of someone closer to me politically. Because they are included, they would have a seat at the lawmaking table. It also motivates the more mainstream parties to do things in the interest of attracting my vote. Since I have somewhere to go, and I am not just stuck with them, they have less incentive to take my vote for granted.

 

[Virtual ghost]

US election: Harris to give 'closing argument' at Ellipse

The US Supreme Court has rejected a bid by former independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be removed from the November 5 ballot in Wisconsin and Michigan.

Kennedy suspended his campaign in August and endorsed former President Donald Trump's candidacy. Kennedy has urged his supporters everywhere to support the Republican nominee and has withdrawn from the ballot in a number of Republican-leaning states.

The part that actually matters.

 

[ceecee]

US election: Harris to give 'closing argument' at Ellipse




The part that actually matters.

I think I speak for much of Michigan when I say we are tired of that guy. I don't even know how they would get his name off the ballot at this point. I voted like a month ago.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't even know how they would get his name off the ballot at this point. I voted like a month ago.

From data that I came across: this is exactly why he got rejected. That ship has evidently sailed away at this point.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Someone openly said the quiet part.
The part from 1:00 to 1:35 is the only thing you really need to see in this video.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

2024 General Election: Poll Closing Times

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This question of how to maintain community when people hold political beliefs that are so destructive and cruel is a tough one, and I don't know the answer.

I've been trying on social media. I have a lot of far-right people, some intelligent, whom I've debated with and I will still click "likes' and "loves" on their performances and non-political posts, but I struggle. Their "debate tactics" were very toxic even when in a pretense of being intellectual. Statements like "you answered nothing" and "I answered everything" are examples of their approach.

I don't like them, but I fake supporting their non-political endeavors, but scroll past sometimes when feeling particularly annoyed. I would help them get to the hospital or bring them food if their survival was threatened, but I would feel incredibly uncomfortable sharing anything personal with them or relating to them as a "friend".

This isn't an emotional reaction only, but also a pragmatic one. When people get all gooey over the candidate who wants to be a violent fascist and use "false balance" and projection to accuse the female candidate of whatever he is guilty of doing, then I know how they would behave if I ever ended up in an abusive dynamic, whether personal or professional. They would not support me, but would likely prefer the bully with the abuse and accuse style. They have demonstrated that they find that approach more convincing.

Years ago at a bus stop a skinny young lady with thick glasses and strange clothes came and sat by me and ranted a bunch of racist, religious, and hate-driven words. I sat there, listened, and felt sorry for her because I guessed she didn't have much power in her social hate group, and I felt comfortable discounting the influence of whatever group she came from. Now it's people with positions in churches, with social service jobs, and performances that people applaud. The do have power. Do I sit quietly and listen? Now it isn't pity I feel, but deep nausea. Still I withhold any virtue signaling which would be deconstructed to projectile vomiting at this point.

I'm reminded of people in my Mom's family. They're working class Midwestern white people. They're divided politically. If you strip the modern political attitudes they're a lot like the people on the 90s sitcom Roseanne. Of the people I know or suspect will vote Trump, they're all different. This was originally an Irish Catholic family so I'm leaving a lot of people out who I barely interact with, lol.

One uncle is Italian but a full-on evangelical rather than a Catholic, and owns a MAGA hat and lots of guns. He was banned from Facebook not that long after January 6th. I would never dream of discussing politics with him. I stick to things like classic rock. Evangelicals are impossible to reach, usually. You can even quote scripture or theology at them if you want, but they'll insist it means something else. They've checked themselves out rationally. I think somebody like this is the hardest to reach. I don't know about the kids beyond one of the daughters who has been vocal for her dislike of Kamala Harris and also objected to the opening ceremonies at the Paris Olympics. She has a chronic health condition. She, I think, was the "good daughter", and so I suspect she's echoing whatever her Dad thinks. I remember non-terrible opinions but I can't remember what they were. Her brother's wife is a brown-skinned Mexican woman. I don't know where the brother or the other sister stands, but I know that the other sister is pro-choice.

Another cousin is a veteran. I actually haven't talked with him very much in person. I know him mostly through Facebook. We have some interests in common (Star Wars, some musical taste, and he even likes the nerd stuff) and seems more level-headed than my uncle. For a while he was on a "fuck the police" kick. I don't think he's voting for Kamala though. I don't quite understand what's going on here beyond the fact that it relates to being male and being a certain age (he's much older than me; I went to his wedding in high school).

Then there is another cousin other cousins. He had a rough time of it (like I did) his first semester at college and dropped out. He has never moved out of his parents house and hasn't had a job in over a decade. I think he's an intelligent person but he got sucked into Alex Jones and Russia Today, and unfortunately has become very anti-immigrant. The funny thing is, I think he's the most reachable, the most likely to flip. He voted for Obama twice, and I think John Kerry, too. In 2016, He was really interested in what Bernie Sanders; if it was Sanders vs. Trump I really think he could have gone for Sanders. He seemed receptive to what I had to say recently. I was talking about Saudi Arabia and petrodollars and explaining that this is probably why we never went after Saudi Arabia after 9/11. The problem is that he knows things are off and should probably be different but he is not aware of any non-horrible alternatives. This is why he got stuck on the Alex Jones/RT to Trump pipeline, I imagine. I could probably show him all kinds of things I'm sure he's never aware of that might shift his understanding. He has openness to experience and is capable of changing his mind about things He was apparently reluctant to vote for Trump. Recently, he almost seemed over Trump, but I doubt will vote for Kamala.

I think factoring into my Dad accusing me of being a secret Trump supporter is that fact that I get along so well with the last cousin I mentioned. I'm supposed to shun him, I suppose. I don't understand what shunning even accomplishes, though. Isn't it helpful to gain insights why people you disagree with think what they do?

I need to explicitly say this next part, even if everyone may not want to hear it. I'm aware that it might really piss people off:

My explanation for the MAGA phenomenon is that mainstream politics have failed people. When the people in power don't care about the people not in power, and alternatives that do actually care are suppressed, you get something like MAGA. MAGA is of course not a real solution; it's con artistry, stirring up hatred, and scapegoating other groups. Everything has causes; I'm shocked at how many political analysts don't factor that in. MAGA is the wrong solution to real problems. Not all of the opinions they have are terrible. These people (well, I don't know the one with the MAGA hat, he got kicked off) complain about greedy corporations and awful employers, or complain about police corruption, or other things I've forgotten. They think society is stacked against them and they're not wrong. It's just that they all turned to a rich asshole who had a TV show.

 

[ceecee]

This question of how to maintain community when people hold political beliefs that are so destructive and cruel is a tough one, and I don't know the answer.

I've been trying on social media. I have a lot of far-right people, some intelligent, whom I've debated with and I will still click "likes' and "loves" on their performances and non-political posts, but I struggle. Their "debate tactics" were very toxic even when in a pretense of being intellectual. Statements like "you answered nothing" and "I answered everything" are examples of their approach.

I don't like them, but I fake supporting their non-political endeavors, but scroll past sometimes when feeling particularly annoyed. I would help them get to the hospital or bring them food if their survival was threatened, but I would feel incredibly uncomfortable sharing anything personal with them or relating to them as a "friend".

This isn't an emotional reaction only, but also a pragmatic one. When people get all gooey over the candidate who wants to be a violent fascist and use "false balance" and projection to accuse the female candidate of whatever he is guilty of doing, then I know how they would behave if I ever ended up in an abusive dynamic, whether personal or professional. They would not support me, but would likely prefer the bully with the abuse and accuse style. They have demonstrated that they find that approach more convincing.

Years ago at a bus stop a skinny young lady with thick glasses and strange clothes came and sat by me and ranted a bunch of racist, religious, and hate-driven words. I sat there, listened, and felt sorry for her because I guessed she didn't have much power in her social hate group, and I felt comfortable discounting the influence of whatever group she came from. Now it's people with positions in churches, with social service jobs, and performances that people applaud. The do have power. Do I sit quietly and listen? Now it isn't pity I feel, but deep nausea. Still I withhold any virtue signaling which would be deconstructed to projectile vomiting at this point.

Please go outside and get off social media.

But it sounds to me like you are asking how are we suppose to move people from the right? Why should I allow these people who voluntarily believe destructive, cruel, evil behavior is the way to go to factor into anything? They have voluntarily removed themselves from any sort of civilization, shed any sort of manners, any sort of humanity. This is 100% on them. Not you, not me or anyone else.

The right are low hanging fruit. Why sacrifice the safety of the marginalized for the comfort of the lowest common denominator? Because those are the people that you should be thinking of. Those are the people you should build community with. Just like the skinny young lady in your post. Why in the fuck would she rate less concern than some ranting MAGA chud that deserves to have his ass kicked all over a parking lot? Spending an inordinate amount of time wringing hands wondering how to maintain community with these people isn't going to get you very far when you know they would love to see you, me and anyone not like them, exterminated. That is the language they use. I do not care what happens to them - they elected to forfeit their humanity, no one took it from them.

Motorist allegedly attempts to run over Harris supporters at VFW Bruce Post

St. Clair Shores resident Melissa Crook said she feels lucky to be alive after a man allegedly tried to run her over with his Mercedes while she was giving out campaign materials with the Macomb Co…

www.macombdaily.com

“He yelled that he could not wait until Trump wins so that ‘people like you will be exterminated’.” Crook said. “He gunned his vehicle right toward me and I stepped backwards and he stopped less than two feet away from me.”

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan

Compare the scripts. Almost identical.
1. Fake news
2. Immigrants taking jobs
3. Calling me the devil haha
4. Demand the government be returned to the people who founded it.
5. Founding fathers focus

Madison Square Garden Feb 20 1939

Madison Square Garden October 27, 2024

I mean, I could figure it out during the summer of 2015.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The 10 state legislative chambers that could flip in 2024

Some thoughts on what is going on down ballot.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

Europe’s Greens ask Jill Stein to pull out of US election to prevent Trump victory

Stein was criticized for attending a 2015 dinner in Moscow sponsored by Russian state television network RT, where she sat at the same table as President Vladimir Putin.

In a sense this would explain many things.
Spread the word.

In my national politics greens and far right populists are allies when it comes to many global issues and on being anti Ukraine. Therefore I don't find it too hard to believe that here this may be the case as well. Today it is hard to track who bought who in every detail.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think I'll be voting today, assuming the polling place is open when and is where I think it is.

A friend emphasized the importance of voting for the school board. She went on a long diatribe about the evils of charter schools. I don't even know what school district I'm in, so I'll have to do some homework today.

I suppose I have to figure out these judges, too. There are a lot of them.

 

[Virtual ghost]

 

[Totenkindly]

I had requested my mail-in ballot late, so it just literally came yesterday.

I'm in Maryland (so it's clear which way we're going with President) but I guess we have a few state/local elections of interest that I need to vote regardless.

I'll do it today and drop it at the post office before Monday morning.

I can't really look at polls anymore or read about the ongoing shite, it's all just anxiety-ridden noise at this point. My spoons often feel depleted with work and with my physical issues I'm dealing with, so I'm mostly trying to just get myself in a proper mindset to deal with whatever happens.