Random Politics Thread

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

None of that shit even surprises me. Now, get the fuck out of the race.

I'm proud of you.

 

[Jaguar]

 

[Red Memories]

Who is the most appealing to you? Bloomberg?

I...hope there was some sarcasm here suggesting the fraud that is Bloomberg interests me the most...….
To be frank, at the beginning, I was intrigued by Tulsi Gabbard. My issue now is I find 0 of the candidates...well a fix. Bloomberg hasn't interested me even a little, I didn't like Joe Biden from the get go, Sanders is okay but I disagree with some of his ideas and "democratic" and "socialist" is a paradoxical statement at its finest, Elizabeth Warren shouldn't even be taken seriously, and frankly I am not sure I don't just want to bury my head in the sand for 2020. Pete seems like the honorary let's have a gay guy! memo and Yang is the "I'm the democratic business guy if Trump can do it so can I!" and I'm just not "progressive" enough for the democrats now but I am not "republican" enough to be okay with Trump's bullshit. I admit of who is there, Bernie is likely the best, but I dislike all of them and I don't see much going on besides discouraging me from voting entirely.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I...hope there was some sarcasm here suggesting the fraud that is Bloomberg interests me the most...….

I was trying to see if maybe I could get you to change your mind. Your response indicates that it's a possibility.

To be frank, at the beginning, I was intrigued by Tulsi Gabbard. My issue now is I find 0 of the candidates...well a fix. Bloomberg hasn't interested me even a little, I didn't like Joe Biden from the get go, Sanders is okay but I disagree with some of his ideas and "democratic" and "socialist" is a paradoxical statement at its finest, Elizabeth Warren shouldn't even be taken seriously, and frankly I am not sure I don't just want to bury my head in the sand for 2020. Pete seems like the honorary let's have a gay guy! memo and Yang is the "I'm the democratic business guy if Trump can do it so can I!" and I'm just not "progressive" enough for the democrats now but I am not "republican" enough to be okay with Trump's bullshit. I admit of who is there, Bernie is likely the best, but I dislike all of them and I don't see much going on besides discouraging me from voting entirely.

I liked Tulsi for a while, but I found it hard to defend the impeachment abstention. Even if she did have a good reason, it's not really going to fly in a Democratic primary. Also, democratic socialism isn't paradoxical. Communism and socialism aren't the same thing. Lots of countries have democratic socialist or social democratic parties, and haven't gotten rid of elections altogether. There are also lots of countries that are capitalist and not democratic, like China (despite the Communist label) or Chile under Pinochet.

I expect that Sanders is going to have a lot of opposition with regards to his programs, so I don't expect that if he wins all the whole thing, my massive student loan debt is going to get cancelled (I've long accepted the possibility that I have to pay off that stuff anyway). I like Sanders because I like his record on things like Iraq and the Patriot Act (a bit before your time, I know...aging myself quite a bit here), and I also think he will do much to empower labor in this country. I think that's something that's needed, as it seems like ever since labor started declining in the U.S., rise in profits and productivity haven't caught up with wages. I've though the Democratic party needs a serious challenge from the left for a long time, and I'm glad that it's finally happening. (I think if he hadn't been around we'd have Democrats falling over themselves to seem like Trump-lite, much like with Kerry in 2004.)

Finally, I think he has a level of authenticity and integrity that is rare in a politician, and that's why I'm getting up off my ass to canvass for him tomorrow.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What you describe reminds me of Spain. That was a recipe for desaster though when the flexible morgage rates rose drastically.
Here in Germany renting is totally normal as people often move due to job changes, relationship changes, etc. Real estate prices also fluctuate a lot which, together with maintenance costs, etc makes them a risky investment.

Well, that perhaps stands firmly if you think inside the box (here is what I know on the subject, perhaps I am wrong in some details). In other words there are ways to bypass this. Here home is in a way considered sacred and this is something that really shouldn't be touched. Since for centuries we didn't have our own state, but we had homes. In other words years ago in the process of westernization they have tried to introduce the property tax but the whole country rejected the idea and now the idea is on standby for something like 10 years. Since the party that will pass this will be obliterated. What probably really helps in keeping the prices under control. The same is probably with the idea that we reject mass immigration, which boosts the demand.



Another factor is that there were some problems with mortgages at various western banks, since all elements were not seen as fair. However that got many annoyed so neighbors and activists have joined forced to protect families from losing their homes. What slowed the process of throwing people out so much that getting a few families from the building turned to be a serious task and it was absolutely terrible in the terms of media publicity. What resulted with the law that if this is your last real estate they can't throw you out, even if you don't have for the mortgage at the moment. Instead they have to prolong the day when your mortgage ends, remake the deal or whatever. I don't know the details but this had to be done since everyone that would lose their home would move into some other EU country, what this country simply can't afford. Plus since there were fishy things in contracts and exchange rates, people have gathered into huge groups out of which many have over 5% of the whole population. And they have sued the banks for what they did. What after years of legal struggle ended with the verdict that supports the clients and now these foreign big banks are returning overpaid billions to the people the last time I checked.



Here is the chunk of the saga in English. I mean 4 million people is about million families (so 100 000 is a lot)

Franak Association Expects 100,000 Lawsuits in Swiss Franc Loans Case



Therefore from what I have seen your point is subjective. If you respect the market your claim clearly stands, however if you don't care too much about this then your point may not matter. This is exactly why I am often talking about cracking of EU on West and East. Since the approach can be very different and western focus on the static rules can be annoying to many of our people. I know very well what is normal for you but people are collectively getting less and less really interested in that. If anything people simply don't want to trade their culture. Just very recently I have personally seen a college professor trashing a student for introducing the concept of money and savings into his project.

 

[Red Memories]

I was trying to see if maybe I could get you to change your mind. Your response indicates that it's a possibility.



I liked Tulsi for a while, but I found it hard to defend the impeachment abstention. Even if she did have a good reason, it's not really going to fly in a Democratic primary. Also, democratic socialism isn't paradoxical. Communism and socialism aren't the same thing. Lots of countries have democratic socialist or social democratic parties, and haven't gotten rid of elections altogether. There are also lots of countries that are capitalist and not democratic, like China (despite the Communist label) or Chile under Pinochet.

I expect that Sanders is going to have a lot of opposition with regards to his programs, so I don't expect that if he wins all the whole thing, my massive student loan debt is going to get cancelled (I've long accepted the possibility that I have to pay off that stuff anyway). I like Sanders because I like his record on things like Iraq and the Patriot Act (a bit before your time, I know...aging myself quite a bit here), and I also think he will do much to empower labor in this country. I think that's something that's needed, as it seems like ever since labor started declining in the U.S., rise in profits and productivity haven't caught up with wages. I've though the Democratic party needs a serious challenge from the left for a long time, and I'm glad that it's finally happening. (I think if he hadn't been around we'd have Democrats falling over themselves to seem like Trump-lite, much like with Kerry in 2004.)

Finally, I think he has a level of authenticity and integrity that is rare in a politician, and that's why I'm getting up off my ass to canvass for him tomorrow.

I am pretty open to learning some new things. I don't consider China to be a good country at all but I also do not equate it with socialism, I equate it with horrible human rights violations and disregard for the environment and life. That's just rage there lol.

I'm actually not hugely opposed to his programs in general. I feel like it is more fair, because Hilary wanted to offer these programs just to certain populations and that angered me as a poorer white woman trying to make something of herself. While I do care about the plight of the immigrants, the other races, etc. that doesn't mean the every day woman, man, or white person doesn't even have to face a struggle. Yes sure perhaps we have more "privilege" but that privilege doesn't extend to all of us equally. I really wish we could get true universal healthcare. So many people of all kinds struggle to afford it, including me. Having to go to the doctor is difficult. When I got hurt at work and workman's comp was absolute shit, the doctor I went to for a second opinion suggested an MRI and I didn't end up getting it fully checked even though I still had some pain. and that leg still has ongoing pain issues ever since my injury that, you know, maybe if I had known specifically what the issue was, I would be able to have figured out better management. But most people can't afford that. I feel like health isn't some "gift", it is a human right that everyone should have equal opportunity for and I am absolutely sick of the people making millions, billions of dollars off of things people may desperately need for survival.

I however don't feel raising the minimum wage will help. Companies will just inflate their prices to compensate and it'll be just like before, except the number is $15 instead of like $7.

I like the idea of giving more of the tax to the wealthy than the poor. I looked at my brother this year, he works at mcdonalds, he couldn't live on his own, and somehow he owed the government money. that's bullshit. If he didn't live at home he'd be in poverty.

I may not be obsessed with global warming and necessarily feel we are going to die from it urgently, but I love nature and I hate the way Trump has injured environmental policies. Sadly, if people don't force them to care they won't. I think it is important the government works on a level to enforce a change.

I appreciate that he has mentioned that we should really get out of the Islamic country fight. We can only do so much. We've lost so many to this never ending war.

I do feel kind of strongly about the borders issue. I feel 1. the dreamers here should just be given citizenship. They've been here so long they know this country and sending them back is...what the fuck territory. 2. I do think we need to do more about border control however. I don't like the idea of open borders, there are not as many protections and it becomes harder to contain issues. I have mixed feelings about the refugees thing as it was admitted ISIS has hidden with refugees, but I met refugees first hand and most of them truly are fleeing from terrorism in their countries. It is such a complex issue that I don't think I fault anyone for their handling of it as long as it is sensitive.

I actually agree with his gun control. I think it is fair as he isn't banning guns as a whole but the bad ones, imposing heavier background checks (which is what I think is needed), and closing loopholes.

I also oppose the death penalty so.

I also feel like Bernie is one of the only candidates that isn't making their entire campaign a Trumpian hate fest which annoys the fuck out of me. We get it, Trump sucks ass, PLEASE for the love of god tell me your policies so I can feel comfortable with you instead.

I don't know enough about Sanders policies on a few other things though and maybe you know, you may get me to change my mind on some stuff:
Marijuana: I dislike the idea of recreational marijuana but I am very much for medicinal marijuana. I think it could be a major solution to the opiod crisis, as many people get addicted to opiods as a medication first for pain management which Marijuana can manage pain with little addictive effects. It has side effects like any drug but not severe lifelong addiction cycles.

Border control: What are his actual plans for the borders?

His "socialism": What does it mean when he actually calls himself a democratic socialist? Socialism is mostly about wealth equality, but what does he intend for that to look like in our society?

And I just gave you a long line of political shit I actually think about, perhaps you can convince me Bernie is the absolute best candidate to handle that issue. I am open to being swayed to more understanding. I just struggle with how bias media coverage is and such anymore.

also snip thank you if you read all that and actually taking the time to have a discussion with me. Because right now I'm so lost at this election mess I would love for some people to try and talk to me about it with a level head which no one around me can seem to do.

 

[ceecee]

I am pretty open to learning some new things. I don't consider China to be a good country at all but I also do not equate it with socialism, I equate it with horrible human rights violations and disregard for the environment and life. That's just rage there lol.

I'm actually not hugely opposed to his programs in general. I feel like it is more fair, because Hilary wanted to offer these programs just to certain populations and that angered me as a poorer white woman trying to make something of herself. While I do care about the plight of the immigrants, the other races, etc. that doesn't mean the every day woman, man, or white person doesn't even have to face a struggle. Yes sure perhaps we have more "privilege" but that privilege doesn't extend to all of us equally. I really wish we could get true universal healthcare. So many people of all kinds struggle to afford it, including me. Having to go to the doctor is difficult. When I got hurt at work and workman's comp was absolute shit, the doctor I went to for a second opinion suggested an MRI and I didn't end up getting it fully checked even though I still had some pain. and that leg still has ongoing pain issues ever since my injury that, you know, maybe if I had known specifically what the issue was, I would be able to have figured out better management. But most people can't afford that. I feel like health isn't some "gift", it is a human right that everyone should have equal opportunity for and I am absolutely sick of the people making millions, billions of dollars off of things people may desperately need for survival.

I however don't feel raising the minimum wage will help. Companies will just inflate their prices to compensate and it'll be just like before, except the number is $15 instead of like $7.

I like the idea of giving more of the tax to the wealthy than the poor. I looked at my brother this year, he works at mcdonalds, he couldn't live on his own, and somehow he owed the government money. that's bullshit. If he didn't live at home he'd be in poverty.

I may not be obsessed with global warming and necessarily feel we are going to die from it urgently, but I love nature and I hate the way Trump has injured environmental policies. Sadly, if people don't force them to care they won't. I think it is important the government works on a level to enforce a change.

I appreciate that he has mentioned that we should really get out of the Islamic country fight. We can only do so much. We've lost so many to this never ending war.

I do feel kind of strongly about the borders issue. I feel 1. the dreamers here should just be given citizenship. They've been here so long they know this country and sending them back is...what the fuck territory. 2. I do think we need to do more about border control however. I don't like the idea of open borders, there are not as many protections and it becomes harder to contain issues. I have mixed feelings about the refugees thing as it was admitted ISIS has hidden with refugees, but I met refugees first hand and most of them truly are fleeing from terrorism in their countries. It is such a complex issue that I don't think I fault anyone for their handling of it as long as it is sensitive.

I actually agree with his gun control. I think it is fair as he isn't banning guns as a whole but the bad ones, imposing heavier background checks (which is what I think is needed), and closing loopholes.

I also oppose the death penalty so.

I also feel like Bernie is one of the only candidates that isn't making their entire campaign a Trumpian hate fest which annoys the fuck out of me. We get it, Trump sucks ass, PLEASE for the love of god tell me your policies so I can feel comfortable with you instead.

I don't know enough about Sanders policies on a few other things though and maybe you know, you may get me to change my mind on some stuff:
Marijuana: I dislike the idea of recreational marijuana but I am very much for medicinal marijuana. I think it could be a major solution to the opiod crisis, as many people get addicted to opiods as a medication first for pain management which Marijuana can manage pain with little addictive effects. It has side effects like any drug but not severe lifelong addiction cycles.

Border control: What are his actual plans for the borders?

His "socialism": What does it mean when he actually calls himself a democratic socialist? Socialism is mostly about wealth equality, but what does he intend for that to look like in our society?

And I just gave you a long line of political shit I actually think about, perhaps you can convince me Bernie is the absolute best candidate to handle that issue. I am open to being swayed to more understanding. I just struggle with how bias media coverage is and such anymore.

also snip thank you if you read all that and actually taking the time to have a discussion with me. Because right now I'm so lost at this election mess I would love for some people to try and talk to me about it with a level head which no one around me can seem to do.

Meant to post last night then things went down.

What have you read or talked to people about? I don't think your questions are at all uncommon but I just wondered.


Anyway, here is an excellent FAQ type thing I've given to many people.

What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

If you are interested in Bernie policy, line by line, do what I did in 2016. Start reading. Then take FDR's 1st New Deal and put it right next to Bernie's policy proposals and go - damn. Bernie isn't talking anything new. We already had this stuff and politicians took it away. There is literally decades of votes and bills Bernie has sponsored or co-sponsored, and voted on, also easy to find online.

Bernie Sanders on the issues

As far as weed is concerned, Bernie can legalize it and decriminalize it on Day 1. President can reschedule anything provided it meets three statutory criteria then order the DEA to do so. Since millions are already using it medically, there is a precedent. And decriminalizing is huge - and expunging records as well. At the federal level.

Removal of cannabis from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act - Wikipedia

Richard Wolff is amazing and explains things in a very understandable way.

Richard D. Wolff - Wikipedia

If you are inclined, I would buy books on these topics from Haymarket Books, ebooks too.

I refuse to watch one fucking second of any corporate news, no matter the lean. I stick to independent journalism and a local channel that provides national news and I access that by streaming.

 

[Jaguar]

Today, corporate executives who answer only to themselves and a few wealthy stockholders make basic economic decisions affecting millions of people.

Obviously written by someone who has never attended a shareholder meeting in their life nor understands what a fiduciary relationship to shareholders is in a corporation, why it exists, and if it's broken, what the legal ramifications are. In short, an idiot wrote the words in that quote and likely harbors wishes to live in a utopian society.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

 

[ceecee]

Amber Delgado was on one of the podcasts I listen to regularly and it was excellent, as is this piece she wrote.

Curated Tolerance: the aesthetics of gentrification | Scalawag

 

[Jaguar]

.

 

[ceecee]

 

[Jaguar]

Class: The Little Word the Elites Want You to Forget | Common Dreams Views

"The interests of the rich are not our interests. The truths of the rich are not our truths. The lives of the rich are not our lives."

Is that what you learned while attending Loomis Chaffee as a kid, Chris? Oh, the financial strife you must have endured as a child attending private school in Connecticut . . .

 

[ceecee]

The Pitchforks Are Coming… For Us Plutocrats - POLITICO Magazine

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The Pitchforks Are Coming… For Us Plutocrats - POLITICO Magazine

Awesome.

 

[Jaguar]

The thing about us businesspeople is that we love our customers rich and our employees poor.

Speak for yourself, asshole. You sound like a moron.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Speak for yourself, asshole. You sound like a moron.

Jaguar took everything out of context. I wonder if he is a Russian bot. I recommend everyone read the article themselves.

 

[Jaguar]

.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't understand why anti-Sanders people can't just vote for the lesser of two evils.

 

[Jaguar]

Jaguar took everything out of context.

No, but you sure wish I did since it destroys the idiotic narrative you have running through your skull.