Random political thought thread.

[Maou]

I still will vote for him.

You mean you're voting for who controls him. Because he is not even there mentally.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You mean you're voting for who controls him. Because he is not even there mentally.

I fucking hate fascists.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

By which I mean Donald Trump.

 

[Maou]

By which I mean Donald Trump.

You should hate Biden too. His entire party has weaponized the Fed to arrest his political opponents.

Also, how is Trump a fascist?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Also, how is Trump a fascist?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-i-have-not-read-hitlers-mein-kampf-2023-12-20/

In a 1990 article in Vanity Fair, opens new tab, Ivana Trump, Donald Trump's first wife, reportedly told her attorney that Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches in a bedside cabinet. That article has resurfaced in recent days.

Every time Donald Trump has invoked Hitler and the Nazis

Donald Trump's alleged desire for generals like Hitler is part of a long history of references to Nazi Germany made by the former president.

forward.com

Tidbits suggesting Trump’s interest in Hitler, the Holocaust and Nazi Germany have appeared with growing frequency since his first campaign in 2016. There are unconfirmed reports attributed to people close to him suggesting Trump finds some of the Nazi leader’s qualities aspirational — even as he believes, as he stated in 2017, that the Holocaust was a “horrible evil.”

Karl’s book also reports that Trump was said to have lamented that his staff were not as ‘loyal’ to him as the Nazis were to Hitler.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/politics/trump-nazi-allusions-analysis/index.html

 

[The Cat]

 

[Maou]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-i-have-not-read-hitlers-mein-kampf-2023-12-20/

Every time Donald Trump has invoked Hitler and the Nazis

Donald Trump's alleged desire for generals like Hitler is part of a long history of references to Nazi Germany made by the former president.

forward.com

Literally all opinion pieces. Tell me in your own words.

 

[Coriolis]

You should hate Biden too. His entire party has weaponized the Fed to arrest his political opponents.

Also, how is Trump a fascist?

I don't hate anyone. Waste of energy. Good presidents surround themselves with smart, informed, competent advisors who won't be yes-"men" but will speak their mind even if they disagree with him. Eisenhower is usually considered a good example of this.

As for Trump and fascism, this fellow makes the case better than I could:

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Literally all opinion pieces. Tell me in your own words.

He didn't distance himself from the mob on January 6th. That was the confirmation of my previous suspicions dating back to the middle of 2015.

 

[The Cat]

 

[ceecee]

You should hate Biden too. His entire party has weaponized the Fed to arrest his political opponents.

Also, how is Trump a fascist?

lol that poor conspiracy addled brain of yours.

 

[Maou]

He didn't distance himself from the mob on January 6th. That was the confirmation of my previous suspicions dating back to the middle of 2015.

This just proves how much Propaganda you consume. Trump clearly stated that protests should be peaceful, and Jan 6 was. Also, why wouldn't you support protests and freedom of speech? "Rules for thee but not for me" mindset. Not to mention the amount of FBI agents that were present in the crowd trying to instigate more violence.

Yet I bet you supported the BLM riots without a hint if irony, with them burning down and looting entire cities. But the one actual peaceful protest, and Trump supporting their actually constituonally supported rights is considered Fascism? Talk about crazy mental gymnastics. You have intellectual arrogance and are demonizing the working class. You are "fighting" for the very same people you are unironically destroying due to negligance and disconnect to your own country and culture.

Perhaps one day you guys will realize that the government is evil and doesn't give a shit about you. But keep giving them new weapons for them to point. And when they finally turn them on you after everyone else is gone. I want you to remember, that you were the useful idiots of the era.

 

[Maou]

lol that poor conspiracy addled brain of yours.

Id say the same for you guys, who collectively live in an alternate reality. Hows the view from the ivory tower?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This just proves how much Propaganda you consume. Trump clearly stated that protests should be peaceful, and Jan 6 was. Also, why wouldn't you support protests and freedom of speech? "Rules for thee but not for me" mindset. Not to mention the amount of FBI agents that were present in the crowd trying to instigate more violence.

You guys are doing that too? That's cute.

Yet I bet you supported the BLM riots without a hint if irony, with them burning down and looting entire cities. But the one actual peaceful protest, and Trump supporting their actually constituonally supported rights is considered Fascism? Talk about crazy mental gymnastics. You have intellectual arrogance and are demonizing the working class. You are "fighting" for the very same people you are unironically destroying due to negligance and disconnect to your own country and culture.

I don't remember BLM burning down and looting entire cities. I also think it was a good cause.

I don't think trying to overturn the results of an election you lost is a good cause. I believe Trump won in 2016; I accepted the results. I thought he lost in 2020. I remember 2000; this whining about losing 2020 elicits no sympathy from me. 2000 consisted of a bunch of smug theocrats calling people "sore losers". Many of these are undoubtedly the exact same people being sore losers in 2020.

Perhaps one day you guys will realize that the government is evil and doesn't give a shit about you. But keep giving them new weapons for them to point. And when they finally turn them on you after everyone else is gone. I want you to remember, that you were the useful idiots of the era.

That's funny, I'm inclined to think that the government is "evil" (although I wouldn't use that word) unless the right people are in charge. This is exactly what you believe. We agree on something after all.

 

[Maou]

I don't think trying to overturn the results of an election you lost is a good cause. I believe Trump won in 2016; I accepted the results. I thought he lost in 2020. I remember 2000; this whining about losing 2020 elicits no sympathy from me. 2000 consisted of a bunch of smug theocrats calling people "sore losers". Many of these are undoubtedly the exact same people being sore losers in 2020.



I'm inclined to think that the government is evil unless the right people are in charge. This is exactly what you believe. We agree on something after all.

This is what I mean about intellectual arrogance. You think they are trying to overturn a legit election. They think they election was illegitimate and stolen. That Biden cheated. Just like people said Trump cheated in 2020. I think Biden cheated as well due to several factors. Such as him being somehow the most popular president in history but zero people turned up to his rallies is a huge red flag. The truckloads of mail in ballots being 100% Biden is statistically impossible but it somehow happened.

You should be concerned over the integrity of elections, because it implies so much worse things than Trump. Its also literally the point of the constitution, if you think the government is corrupt you have the RIGHT to tear it down. Thats kind of the whole point.

Voting ID laws are standard everywhere but the USA. People who say its racist are literally just White supremicists who think minorities are always too poor and or too dumb to get them. Despite the fact you need ID to do literally anything from renting to buying booze. And even then, it can become a campaign goal to help people vote after you establish voter ID laws.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This is what I mean about intellectual arrogance. You think they are trying to overturn a legit election. They think they election was illegitimate and stolen. That Biden cheated. Just like people said Trump cheated in 2020. I think Biden cheated as well due to several factors. Such as him being somehow the most popular president in history but zero people turned up to his rallies is a huge red flag. The truckloads of mail in ballots being 100% Biden is statistically impossible but it somehow happened.

You should be concerned over the integrity of elections, because it implies so much worse things than Trump. Its also literally the point of the constitution, if you think the government is corrupt you have the RIGHT to tear it down. Thats kind of the whole point.

Voting ID laws are standard everywhere but the USA. People who say its racist are literally just White supremicists who think minorities are always too poor and or too dumb to get them. Despite the fact you need ID to do literally anything from renting to buying booze. And even then, it can become a campaign goal to help people vote after you establish voter ID laws.

 

[Maou]

 

[Coriolis]

He didn't distance himself from the mob on January 6th. That was the confirmation of my previous suspicions dating back to the middle of 2015.

That doesn't make him a fascist, just an insurrectionist and would-be dictator. Dictators come in many flavors.

 

[Coriolis]

This is what I mean about intellectual arrogance. You think they are trying to overturn a legit election. They think they election was illegitimate and stolen. That Biden cheated. Just like people said Trump cheated in 2020. I think Biden cheated as well due to several factors. Such as him being somehow the most popular president in history but zero people turned up to his rallies is a huge red flag. The truckloads of mail in ballots being 100% Biden is statistically impossible but it somehow happened.

You should be concerned over the integrity of elections, because it implies so much worse things than Trump. Its also literally the point of the constitution, if you think the government is corrupt you have the RIGHT to tear it down. Thats kind of the whole point.

Voting ID laws are standard everywhere but the USA. People who say its racist are literally just White supremicists who think minorities are always too poor and or too dumb to get them. Despite the fact you need ID to do literally anything from renting to buying booze. And even then, it can become a campaign goal to help people vote after you establish voter ID laws.

Sad to say, renting and buying booze are not constitutionally protected rights. Voting is. Means to help people get acceptable ID in ways that do not effectively disenfranchise them can easily be built into the voter ID laws themselves, and should be. I have yet to see a voter ID law that does this. Yet court after court, often staffed with Republican appointees, has found actual voter fraud levels to be negligible, often in single digits even in large constituencies.

No election is perfect. They are, after all, a human endeavor and humans are not perfect. Voter irregularity in our elections, however, has been minor compared with other nations where corruption is rampant and democracy is merely a show. I don't know that Trump cheated in the last election, though the recordings of him trying to pressure election officials into "finding" more votes in his favor suggest he tried. Court after court, again with Republican-appointed (often Trump-appointed) judges presiding, have found election results fair. Nothing was stolen. Trump was a sore winner when he did win, and now that he did not, is an even sorer loser.

When we elect a president, we are always electing by implication the cabinet, staff, and advisors he will appoint. President is a huge job. No one can do it alone. Good presidents, as I mentioned in referencing Eisenhower, choose good advisors, and then hear them out. Trump chose yes-men whose number one feature was personal loyalty to him, above even loyalty to the Constitution. It sounds like the only one really willing to stand up to him on occasion was his daughter Ivanka, and even she didn't get very far.

Sadly in our political system, the general election comes down to a choice between two candidates, neither one of whom we may consider anywhere near ideal. This sometimes motivates people to vote for "third party" candidates, whether as a protest, or to avoid compromising their own principles. The fact is, though, that until something changes significantly, one of the two main party candidates will win. Anyone who doesn't cast a vote for one of them is essentially abdicating their effective choice. Anyone who thinks their life will be the same regardless of how they vote, well, all I can say is the past several years if nothing else should have shown the difference. I for one prefer to vote for someone whose heart and values are in the right place, even if he might have to rely upon advisors a little more than perhaps a younger fellow. American democracy has no place for political leaders who use personal loyalty as a litmus test.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

That doesn't make him a fascist, just an insurrectionist and would-be dictator. Dictators come in many flavors.

I disagree, but I think fascism takes on different guises in different historical periods. I would have preferred to have used stuff referencing other forms of fascism rather than just Nazism for my previous post. That's what I managed to find, though, which is not unexpected given it's the most famous example.