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Random political thought thread.

Maou

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He didn't distance himself from the mob on January 6th. That was the confirmation of my previous suspicions dating back to the middle of 2015.
This just proves how much Propaganda you consume. Trump clearly stated that protests should be peaceful, and Jan 6 was. Also, why wouldn't you support protests and freedom of speech? "Rules for thee but not for me" mindset. Not to mention the amount of FBI agents that were present in the crowd trying to instigate more violence.

Yet I bet you supported the BLM riots without a hint if irony, with them burning down and looting entire cities. But the one actual peaceful protest, and Trump supporting their actually constituonally supported rights is considered Fascism? Talk about crazy mental gymnastics. You have intellectual arrogance and are demonizing the working class. You are "fighting" for the very same people you are unironically destroying due to negligance and disconnect to your own country and culture.

Perhaps one day you guys will realize that the government is evil and doesn't give a shit about you. But keep giving them new weapons for them to point. And when they finally turn them on you after everyone else is gone. I want you to remember, that you were the useful idiots of the era.
 

Maou

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lol that poor conspiracy addled brain of yours.
Id say the same for you guys, who collectively live in an alternate reality. Hows the view from the ivory tower?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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This just proves how much Propaganda you consume. Trump clearly stated that protests should be peaceful, and Jan 6 was. Also, why wouldn't you support protests and freedom of speech? "Rules for thee but not for me" mindset. Not to mention the amount of FBI agents that were present in the crowd trying to instigate more violence.

You guys are doing that too? That's cute.
Yet I bet you supported the BLM riots without a hint if irony, with them burning down and looting entire cities. But the one actual peaceful protest, and Trump supporting their actually constituonally supported rights is considered Fascism? Talk about crazy mental gymnastics. You have intellectual arrogance and are demonizing the working class. You are "fighting" for the very same people you are unironically destroying due to negligance and disconnect to your own country and culture.

I don't remember BLM burning down and looting entire cities. I also think it was a good cause.

I don't think trying to overturn the results of an election you lost is a good cause. I believe Trump won in 2016; I accepted the results. I thought he lost in 2020. I remember 2000; this whining about losing 2020 elicits no sympathy from me. 2000 consisted of a bunch of smug theocrats calling people "sore losers". Many of these are undoubtedly the exact same people being sore losers in 2020.

Perhaps one day you guys will realize that the government is evil and doesn't give a shit about you. But keep giving them new weapons for them to point. And when they finally turn them on you after everyone else is gone. I want you to remember, that you were the useful idiots of the era.

That's funny, I'm inclined to think that the government is "evil" (although I wouldn't use that word) unless the right people are in charge. This is exactly what you believe. We agree on something after all.
 
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Maou

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I don't think trying to overturn the results of an election you lost is a good cause. I believe Trump won in 2016; I accepted the results. I thought he lost in 2020. I remember 2000; this whining about losing 2020 elicits no sympathy from me. 2000 consisted of a bunch of smug theocrats calling people "sore losers". Many of these are undoubtedly the exact same people being sore losers in 2020.



I'm inclined to think that the government is evil unless the right people are in charge. This is exactly what you believe. We agree on something after all.
This is what I mean about intellectual arrogance. You think they are trying to overturn a legit election. They think they election was illegitimate and stolen. That Biden cheated. Just like people said Trump cheated in 2020. I think Biden cheated as well due to several factors. Such as him being somehow the most popular president in history but zero people turned up to his rallies is a huge red flag. The truckloads of mail in ballots being 100% Biden is statistically impossible but it somehow happened.

You should be concerned over the integrity of elections, because it implies so much worse things than Trump. Its also literally the point of the constitution, if you think the government is corrupt you have the RIGHT to tear it down. Thats kind of the whole point.

Voting ID laws are standard everywhere but the USA. People who say its racist are literally just White supremicists who think minorities are always too poor and or too dumb to get them. Despite the fact you need ID to do literally anything from renting to buying booze. And even then, it can become a campaign goal to help people vote after you establish voter ID laws.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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This is what I mean about intellectual arrogance. You think they are trying to overturn a legit election. They think they election was illegitimate and stolen. That Biden cheated. Just like people said Trump cheated in 2020. I think Biden cheated as well due to several factors. Such as him being somehow the most popular president in history but zero people turned up to his rallies is a huge red flag. The truckloads of mail in ballots being 100% Biden is statistically impossible but it somehow happened.

You should be concerned over the integrity of elections, because it implies so much worse things than Trump. Its also literally the point of the constitution, if you think the government is corrupt you have the RIGHT to tear it down. Thats kind of the whole point.

Voting ID laws are standard everywhere but the USA. People who say its racist are literally just White supremicists who think minorities are always too poor and or too dumb to get them. Despite the fact you need ID to do literally anything from renting to buying booze. And even then, it can become a campaign goal to help people vote after you establish voter ID laws.

 

Maou

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20240327_123632.jpg
 

Coriolis

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He didn't distance himself from the mob on January 6th. That was the confirmation of my previous suspicions dating back to the middle of 2015.
That doesn't make him a fascist, just an insurrectionist and would-be dictator. Dictators come in many flavors.
 

Coriolis

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This is what I mean about intellectual arrogance. You think they are trying to overturn a legit election. They think they election was illegitimate and stolen. That Biden cheated. Just like people said Trump cheated in 2020. I think Biden cheated as well due to several factors. Such as him being somehow the most popular president in history but zero people turned up to his rallies is a huge red flag. The truckloads of mail in ballots being 100% Biden is statistically impossible but it somehow happened.

You should be concerned over the integrity of elections, because it implies so much worse things than Trump. Its also literally the point of the constitution, if you think the government is corrupt you have the RIGHT to tear it down. Thats kind of the whole point.

Voting ID laws are standard everywhere but the USA. People who say its racist are literally just White supremicists who think minorities are always too poor and or too dumb to get them. Despite the fact you need ID to do literally anything from renting to buying booze. And even then, it can become a campaign goal to help people vote after you establish voter ID laws.
Sad to say, renting and buying booze are not constitutionally protected rights. Voting is. Means to help people get acceptable ID in ways that do not effectively disenfranchise them can easily be built into the voter ID laws themselves, and should be. I have yet to see a voter ID law that does this. Yet court after court, often staffed with Republican appointees, has found actual voter fraud levels to be negligible, often in single digits even in large constituencies.

No election is perfect. They are, after all, a human endeavor and humans are not perfect. Voter irregularity in our elections, however, has been minor compared with other nations where corruption is rampant and democracy is merely a show. I don't know that Trump cheated in the last election, though the recordings of him trying to pressure election officials into "finding" more votes in his favor suggest he tried. Court after court, again with Republican-appointed (often Trump-appointed) judges presiding, have found election results fair. Nothing was stolen. Trump was a sore winner when he did win, and now that he did not, is an even sorer loser.

When we elect a president, we are always electing by implication the cabinet, staff, and advisors he will appoint. President is a huge job. No one can do it alone. Good presidents, as I mentioned in referencing Eisenhower, choose good advisors, and then hear them out. Trump chose yes-men whose number one feature was personal loyalty to him, above even loyalty to the Constitution. It sounds like the only one really willing to stand up to him on occasion was his daughter Ivanka, and even she didn't get very far.

Sadly in our political system, the general election comes down to a choice between two candidates, neither one of whom we may consider anywhere near ideal. This sometimes motivates people to vote for "third party" candidates, whether as a protest, or to avoid compromising their own principles. The fact is, though, that until something changes significantly, one of the two main party candidates will win. Anyone who doesn't cast a vote for one of them is essentially abdicating their effective choice. Anyone who thinks their life will be the same regardless of how they vote, well, all I can say is the past several years if nothing else should have shown the difference. I for one prefer to vote for someone whose heart and values are in the right place, even if he might have to rely upon advisors a little more than perhaps a younger fellow. American democracy has no place for political leaders who use personal loyalty as a litmus test.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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That doesn't make him a fascist, just an insurrectionist and would-be dictator. Dictators come in many flavors.
I disagree, but I think fascism takes on different guises in different historical periods. I would have preferred to have used stuff referencing other forms of fascism rather than just Nazism for my previous post. That's what I managed to find, though, which is not unexpected given it's the most famous example.
 

Coriolis

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I disagree, but I think fascism takes on different guises in different historical periods. I would have preferred to have used stuff referencing other forms of fascism rather than just Nazism for my previous post. That's what I managed to find, though, which is not unexpected given it's the most famous example.
I don't disagree that Trump is a fascist, just pointing out that his support for the attempted insurrection does not make him one. His goals for governance do. Did you look at the video I linked? I think @The Cat linked it earlier somewhere, too. He goes through the basic tenets of fascism, which shows where it is different from, say, USSR style communism or an absolute monarchy.
 

Maou

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Sad to say, renting and buying booze are not constitutionally protected rights. Voting is. Means to help people get acceptable ID in ways that do not effectively disenfranchise them can easily be built into the voter ID laws themselves, and should be. I have yet to see a voter ID law that does this. Yet court after court, often staffed with Republican appointees, has found actual voter fraud levels to be negligible, often in single digits even in large constituencies.
Having voter ID would be a huge benefit for everyone. Democrats are just scared that they won't be able to cheat anymore of the government had more voter secueity. You're also assuming that people are once again, incapable because they are "disenfranchised". I don't see whats so controversial of having an ID to vote. The government itself "disenfranchises" everyone just by existing. A minor inconvenience of having to get another ID is an easy price to pay for better voting security.

Yes, let the evil doers doo their own audit lol. Totally legit. Also, I am mainly referring to the federal elections, and a handful of local ones. Not all of them are corrupt.
No election is perfect. They are, after all, a human endeavor and humans are not perfect. Voter irregularity in our elections, however, has been minor compared with other nations where corruption is rampant and democracy is merely a show. I don't know that Trump cheated in the last election, though the recordings of him trying to pressure election officials into "finding" more votes in his favor suggest he tried. Court after court, again with Republican-appointed (often Trump-appointed) judges presiding, have found election results fair. Nothing was stolen. Trump was a sore winner when he did win, and now that he did not, is an even sorer loser.
There is nothing Trump does that everyone else doesn't also do. The only difference is the media says its bad when Trump does it, and celebrates it when Democrats do it. Some people are massive hypocrites. There is plenty of people who have come forward since 2020 btw, who admitted to election fraud and were indicted.
When we elect a president, we are always electing by implication the cabinet, staff, and advisors he will appoint. President is a huge job. No one can do it alone. Good presidents, as I mentioned in referencing Eisenhower, choose good advisors, and then hear them out. Trump chose yes-men whose number one feature was personal loyalty to him, above even loyalty to the Constitution. It sounds like the only one really willing to stand up to him on occasion was his daughter Ivanka, and even she didn't get very far.
This is entirely your opinion. I think Trump specifically chose originalists and libertarians.
Sadly in our political system, the general election comes down to a choice between two candidates, neither one of whom we may consider anywhere near ideal. This sometimes motivates people to vote for "third party" candidates, whether as a protest, or to avoid compromising their own principles. The fact is, though, that until something changes significantly, one of the two main party candidates will win. Anyone who doesn't cast a vote for one of them is essentially abdicating their effective choice. Anyone who thinks their life will be the same regardless of how they vote, well, all I can say is the past several years if nothing else should have shown the difference. I for one prefer to vote for someone whose heart and values are in the right place, even if he might have to rely upon advisors a little more than perhaps a younger fellow. American democracy has no place for political leaders who use personal loyalty as a litmus test.
And I prefer to vote for someone who isnt trying to make USA communist shithole. Biden is literally the worst president in history. The issue with a lot of people is they are completely ignorant and naive when it comes to just how evil the plutocracy is. This right vs left shit is entirely orchestrated.

Everything needs to come down to fix it. Say what you want about Trump, at least I believe he actually cares for America. The fact he is hated by the establishment should prove to you just how anti-plutocratic he is. They have to resort to lying and false iditements to even have the possibility of Democrats winning. They have NOTHING, and Biden did nothing but flush the economy down the toilet.
 

Virtual ghost

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This style of posting proves that allies and NATO have to send various high quality diplomats into US. In order to starts genuine peace negotiations before all of this turns into genuine civil war. Especially since this is exactly what certain genuine dictators would want and are trying to spark through trolling comment sections.
 

Maou

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This means what, exactly? I have health problems, too. They've made me even less likely to vote for Trump, than I was. I think you and I are scared of very different things, at the end of the day.
I think we are scared of the same things actually. Most people want the same things. Its just how to go from A to B where things get "lost in translation" in the marketplace of ideas.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I think we are scared of the same things actually. Most people want the same things. Its just how to go from A to B where things get "lost in translation" in the marketplace of ideas.
I think for me it's something I noticed when I was growing up. It's really not that hard to fool most the populace with an obvious, unconvincing lie. (It especially helps if the lie is repeated. I think somebody else said that once.) I associate one particular party with this kind of behavior and they haven't changed 20 years later.
 

Maou

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I think for me it's something I noticed when I was growing up. It's really not that hard to fool most the populace with an obvious, unconvincing lie. (It especially helps if the lie is repeated. I think somebody else said that once.) I associate one particular party with this kind of behavior and they haven't changed 20 years later.
That's the real kicker. I think the same thing. It's almost as if there is a psychological phenomenon at work here. The real question is now, if both of us experienced the same thing...who is actually right? Or perhaps...it's because it's working as intended to keep us divided. Who has the power to play both sides, to pit us against each other? So we are so busy worrying about right vs left, moral dilemmas and "atrocities" to focus on where all the money goes amd why things perpetually get worse, and who is actually responsible. You have to wonder if its all actually just made up to make you mad in the first place. Its feeling like nothing you believe ever mattered, because nothing ever changes in the grand scheme of things. One big giant political theater, with really well payed actors and volunteers from the audience who think its all real. Like wrestling even.
 

Coriolis

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Having voter ID would be a huge benefit for everyone. Democrats are just scared that they won't be able to cheat anymore of the government had more voter secueity. You're also assuming that people are once again, incapable because they are "disenfranchised". I don't see whats so controversial of having an ID to vote. The government itself "disenfranchises" everyone just by existing. A minor inconvenience of having to get another ID is an easy price to pay for better voting security.

Yes, let the evil doers doo their own audit lol. Totally legit. Also, I am mainly referring to the federal elections, and a handful of local ones. Not all of them are corrupt.

There is nothing Trump does that everyone else doesn't also do. The only difference is the media says its bad when Trump does it, and celebrates it when Democrats do it. Some people are massive hypocrites. There is plenty of people who have come forward since 2020 btw, who admitted to election fraud and were indicted.

This is entirely your opinion. I think Trump specifically chose originalists and libertarians.

And I prefer to vote for someone who isnt trying to make USA communist shithole. Biden is literally the worst president in history. The issue with a lot of people is they are completely ignorant and naive when it comes to just how evil the plutocracy is. This right vs left shit is entirely orchestrated.

Everything needs to come down to fix it. Say what you want about Trump, at least I believe he actually cares for America. The fact he is hated by the establishment should prove to you just how anti-plutocratic he is. They have to resort to lying and false iditements to even have the possibility of Democrats winning. They have NOTHING, and Biden did nothing but flush the economy down the toilet.
Trump cares about Trump, and possibly some of his wealthy and powerful cronies, at least the ones who can help him get more attention. The way he demands personal loyalty from staff, as evidenced by his own words, should give any supporter of democracy cause for concern. Whatever his faults, Biden from what I have seen genuinely cares about ordinary people and can empathize with their situations. Doesn't mean he always does the most effective thing to help, but it's a start, and better than not being able to relate.

And yes, measures that effectively prevent people from voting, even if that is not their stated intent, are unconstitutional as courts at various levels have ruled over and over again. Poll taxes, literacy tests, and so on. Any voter ID mandate must include the means for eligible voters to get an ID, even if they are indigent, itinerant, uneducated, or poorly connected. None of that is required by the Constitution to have the right to vote.
 

Maou

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Trump cares about Trump, and possibly some of his wealthy and powerful cronies, at least the ones who can help him get more attention. The way he demands personal loyalty from staff, as evidenced by his own words, should give any supporter of democracy cause for concern.
I disagree with this whole heartedly. You'd only have this opinion of you've only read left wing media. Sure, Trump is a "troll" and likes to argue, and can be an asshat. But his actions puts Americans first. Not trying to play world police.

Whatever his faults, Biden from what I have seen genuinely cares about ordinary people and can empathize with their situations. Doesn't mean he always does the most effective thing to help, but it's a start, and better than not being able to relate.
I'd love to see a clip of Biden having a coherant thought in general, that isn't heavily edited. Twitter doesn't count, because the PR teams run social media.
And yes, measures that effectively prevent people from voting, even if that is not their stated intent, are unconstitutional as courts at various levels have ruled over and over again. Poll taxes, literacy tests, and so on. Any voter ID mandate must include the means for eligible voters to get an ID, even if they are indigent, itinerant, uneducated, or poorly connected. None of that is required by the Constitution to have the right to vote.
Oh so the constitution is infalliable in this regard, but the 2A etc needs to be revised. Voter ID is as easy as combining it with drivers or states ID. I don't know what other stuff you think they are going to add to it, but its not as bad as you think.
 
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