Random political thought thread.

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

That's the real kicker. I think the same thing. It's almost as if there is a psychological phenomenon at work here. The real question is now, if both of us experienced the same thing...who is actually right? Or perhaps...it's because it's working as intended to keep us divided. Who has the power to play both sides, to pit us against each other? So we are so busy worrying about right vs left, moral dilemmas and "atrocities" to focus on where all the money goes amd why things perpetually get worse, and who is actually responsible. You have to wonder if its all actually just made up to make you mad in the first place. Its feeling like nothing you believe ever mattered, because nothing ever changes in the grand scheme of things. One big giant political theater, with really well payed actors and volunteers from the audience who think its all real. Like wrestling even.

You felt that way 2008-2016, correct?

I was a skeptic towards Obama during primary season, and I didn't vote for him then. The narrative made it out to be as though there was this big difference between him and Hillary. I watched a few debates, though, and he appeared to be quite similar to her regarding positions. They were both centrist moderates; why everyone I knew was making him out to be a revolutionary, I'll never know.

I did vote for him in the general, despite my skepticism. I tended to give him the benefit of the doubt during his administration. There were two issues in his second term for which I didn't, neither of which I will address here.

I did like his speeches about bringing the country together; black and white, red and blue, male and female, etc. I came to believe briefly (during the first half of 2015) during the end of his term that he'd begun the process. I went out in the world with my girlfriend at the time, and the things I did and saw actually did give me hope. It did feel like there was some kind of healing going on.

This didn't come to pass, regrettably.

You wrote that nothing ever changes in the grand scheme of things. This may be obvious, but I think some want to keep things the same, and some want to change things.

Of the people who want to keep things the same, I think Obama is one of those. I've seen him intervene too many times in favor of the status quo for this to not be the case. The fact that this campaign slogan included the word "change" in it doesn't override my observations. I've seen him make that stop gesture too many times when making press conferences. I did give him the benefit of the doubt, but I never felt he was in my corner.

Of the people who want to change things, some changes are good and some bad. I think my judgment on which changes are which is encapsulated by a relevant slogan: the one I found most appealing was "Not me, us." I don't want a personality cult, whether it's Democratic or Republican. I want things to be better. "Not me, us" acknowledges that it's not just about having one person in a position of authority from which you follow decrees, but it's about what all of us do. It's the message that if we work together, we can accomplish this. Unfortunately, part of the problem was that there wasn't enough working together. Some people were too harsh and aggressive in going after Buttigieg and Warren supporters and were blinded to the idea that Biden could have even been a threat.

 

[Virtual ghost]

In my book the two of you are trying to figure this out from the wrong direction. You are trying to figure this internally and I would say that the origin of the problem is external (outside of US). In other words the more USA stays as it is the more it is losing pace with the world that has little to do with what existed some 30 years ago. The others simply developed new economic models, new constitutions, new technologies, new factories etc. 30 years ago China was nothing in particular. There was no Eurozone, ASEAN, MERCOSUR as they are today. Africa didn't have any modern infrastructure ... etc. Plus not to mention the internet as it is today, which basically completely abolished your isolation. Since now everyone can contact anyone or anything inside of US within seconds. In other words you are wasting too much energy on your own partisan politics and your past. Since the key is in what the others are doing (because such actions have quiteobservable consequences). However that is much more complex topic and thus most prefer to skip it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

In my book the two of you are trying to figure this out from the wrong direction. You are trying to figure this internally and I would say that the origin of the problem is external (outside of US). In other words the more USA stays as it is the more it is losing pace with the world that has little to do with what existed some 30 years ago. The others simply developed new economic models, new constitutions, new technologies, new factories etc. 30 years ago China was nothing in particular. There was no Eurozone, ASEAN, MERCOSUR as they are today. Africa didn't have any modern infrastructure ... etc. Plus not to mention the internet as it is today, which basically completely abolished your isolation. Since now everyone can contact anyone or anything inside of US within seconds. In other words you are wasting too much energy on your own partisan politics and your past. Since the key is in what the others are doing (because such actions have quiteobservable consequences). However that is much more complex topic and thus most prefer to skip it.

I'm trying to speak with another individual and share why I think the way I do, because I'd like to see what happens.

(Nothing is happening without going through partisan politics anyway.)

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm trying to speak with another individual and share why I think the way I do, because I'd like to see what happens.

(Nothing is happening without going through partisan politics anyway.)

Perhaps you wouldn't believe me but that is pretty much what I am doing.

Doing these kinds of brainstorms for the sake of personal past is perfectly ok. But from time to time going into wider perspective wouldn't hurt in the terms of conclusions. After all that might actually show how irrelevant is partisan politics in the big picture that is the world stage. I just find it strange to skip this part when you are trying to realize why your life looks as it looks.

 

[ceecee]

I'm trying to speak with another individual and share why I think the way I do, because I'd like to see what happens.

(Nothing is happening without going through partisan politics anyway.)

Why? That person doesn't reside in reality at all. They need mental health care from a professional, not a conversation.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Why? That person doesn't reside in reality at all. They need mental health care from a professional, not a conversation.

I thought the discussion took an interesting turn and I wanted to see where it lead. I don't have a specific goal beyond that.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Why? That person doesn't reside in reality at all. They need mental health care from a professional, not a conversation.

Lack of conversation is exactly what has pushed so many into the Trump's arms. Now it is perhaps too late to fix this but stigmatizing people probably wouldn't do much good to anyone. Even if mentioned people indeed have metal health issues.

 

[ceecee]

Lack of conversation is exactly what has pushed so many into the Trump's arms. Now it is perhaps too late to fix this but stigmatizing people probably wouldn't do much good to anyone. Even if mentioned people indeed have metal health issues.

Pointing out that a person has created an entirely imaginary reality is generally a hallmark of mental illness. Supporting politicians that support health care for all is a more normal way to approach that. It's not stigmatizing, it's a PSA.

None of those politicians are Donald Trump though, no matter how many right wingers insist he really cares about Americans. I couldn't even type that without laughing.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Pointing out that a person has created an entirely imaginary reality is generally a hallmark of mental illness. Supporting politicians that support health care for all is a more normal way to approach that. It's not stigmatizing, it's a PSA.

None of those politicians are Donald Trump though, no matter how many right wingers insist he really cares about Americans. I couldn't even type that without laughing.

Of course, but with too much hostility you are only pushing those people back into the fold. While in reality they should get the path through which they can get out of what evolved into a cult over the years. In other words they can't really get help until you open them the path to get out.

As you probably know every vote will matter in November. So let's not make this worse than it should be.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]

Trump cant resonate with people who actually believe their stated positions.
Outside of Advocating for Devils that is.​

 

[Virtual ghost]

Brian Kemp will attend GOP convention as he builds up political operation

He’s continuing to mull a Senate run in 2026 or a presidential bid in the next cycle.

The glimpse of what could come after Trump era.

 

[The Cat]

 

[SensEye]

Beau's not earning his keep on this one. Here's what I predict will happen with the Trump trial (no patreon donations required):

1) Trump gets convicted of a felony. Not very likely I don't think. Regardless, Trump and his legal team start launching appeals if this happens. Such appeals will continue until it hits the Supreme Court. Trump has stacked that court with his lackeys and they will overturn the conviction. We will be long past the election by this time. Nobody will bother to re-litigate at that point.
2) Trump gets convicted of a misdemeanor. I'm not sure if this is an option for the jury, but I know the charge of 'falsifying business records' results in misdemeanor convictions much more often than felony convictions. If this is an option, it's is pretty likely. Trump will appeal anyways, but nobody will really care about a misdemeanor, so it will be quickly forgotten.
3) Trump is acquitted. Trump walks, says I told you so, and this whole fiasco blows up in the Democrats face.

There's very little path to good news for the Democrats. A felony conviction may help with PR, but since it will be under appeal, I'm not sure it will impact voters minds as much as the Dems hope it will.

 

[Virtual ghost]

There's very little path to good news for the Democrats. A felony conviction may help with PR, but since it will be under appeal, I'm not sure it will impact voters minds as much as the Dems hope it will.

You are forgetting one scenario that isn't that much unlikely. Trump's legal problems can get even more complicated and he could even end in a cell. To what Republicans choose someone kinda normal as new candidate and in the end landslide Biden. Which in the end can only work against Trump.


I am kinda surprised that pretty much no one can see this timeline. Since this evidently isn't something that is 100% impossible.

 

[SensEye]

You are forgetting one scenario that isn't that much unlikely. Trump's legal problems can get even more complicated and he could even end in a cell. To what Republicans choose someone kinda normal as new candidate and in the end landslide Biden. Which in the end can only work against Trump.


I am kinda surprised that pretty much no one can see this timeline. Since this evidently isn't something that is 100% impossible.

That seems too good to be true. I am convinced it will not be. In any event, we should know in a week or so.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Trump found guilty on all 34 charges in hush money trial

 

[SensEye]

Dems get their PR victory. Trump has to wear the convicted felon label for the time being. Happy to admit I was wrong on that likelihood.

However, I heard one of the legal types on CNN say that for class E felony convictions, even *if* Trump gets jail time, he will not have to start serving his sentence until after he has exhausted all his appeals (which will takes months or even years).

So it will not interfere with his ability to campaign.

Time will tell if the 'convicted felon' vs 'witch hunt victim/martyr' narrative will influence voters one way or the other, and which way the balance will tilt if it does.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Dems get their PR victory. Trump has to wear the convicted felon label for the time being. Happy to admit I was wrong on that likelihood.

However, I heard one of the legal types on CNN say that for class E felony convictions, even *if* Trump gets jail time, he will not have to start serving his sentence until after he has exhausted all his appeals (which will takes months or even years).

So it will not interfere with his ability to campaign.

Time will tell if the 'convicted felon' vs 'witch hunt victim/martyr' narrative will influence voters one way or the other, and which way the balance will tilt if it does.

Ok, but there is still a number of other factors about actual running of the country . The legal games aren't the only show in town.
However my bet is that in the end this conviction should tilt many of those voters in the center. The ones that are in "I am voting for the lesser evil" mindset. In other words what just happened should tilt them away from Trump. What in the end can easily decide the swing states.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I hate capitalism.