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Random Movie Thoughts Thread

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I actually liked the first Captain Marvel. I think I like Brie Larson, though, so it may primarily be due to that. I also like scenarios where a character goes around solidly believing the world is one way, and then they find out everything else is actually the other way. I like watching what happens as characters learn to break through their conditioning. And I have to love a Flerken.

I don't know about this movie, though. It seems like the teenager is a bit.... much. Judging from what I've seen it seems like that character needs to be toned down. I don't think it was so over-the-top when Tom Holland was hanging around with Tony Stark. (And just because I liked a Flerken, doesn't mean I'll like lots of them).
 
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Totenkindly

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CM was an average film at best. There was no character development. The main plot just involved Carol not remembering her past and then eventually regaining her memory but there was nothing that really changed her as a character or allowed her to actually grow. She was pretty inert. The big emotional crux of the film is, "Carol Danvers never quits" -- but we already knew that.

This carried over to her other appearances, where she was more a plot device (and even a deus ex machina in Endgame -- she fixed the first problem of the film -- "How Does Tony Survive And Get Back to Earth to Regroup?" -- helps kill Thanos the first time, then just disappears until she suddenly shows up to blow up his ship and hold Thanos at a standstill long enough for Stark to figure out what to do with the gauntlet).

If The Marvels will be any good, it better give her an actual arc and/or chance for growth. it's possible, she might have to adjust herself and learn patience dealing with the youngest Marvel. But I really don't know. I don't think Rambeau really had much of an arc in Wandavision either, she's already been portrayed as a "good" person rather than a flawed one, and it was mostly about how she got her powers. That's all. They really need to up their character game if this is to be a decent film.

... I don't really care about the flerken. It is just another gimmick that is supposed to be cute, and everyone falls in love with it in the audience, it's like Porgs in TROS -- but they don't actually make the movie any good, it's all window dressing.

I thought Tom Holland was really great as a teenager portrayal. I actually felt like Peter Parker was in high school, he was a kid and he kind of adored/admired Tony just like a kid would, which is fine for a kid... Kids have their heroes. I'm not really sure of what I want to say, but yeah, I think Holland's performance is like a teenage gold standard in the MCU. (That, and Miles Morales / Gwen Stacy in the Spiderverse films.) They want to do heroic things, and do them, but they tend to worry too much about being liked and impressing their heroes and also not having wisdom tempered with experience and age -- so sometimes their decision making is off despite the good intent.
 
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Totenkindly

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✋I liked his LeStat.

I actually think he comedic roles have been great and maybe should be done more often. That just doesn't seem to be in the cards - his action moves are what people want more than anything else and until he's physically unable to do them in the way he currently does, other types of roles have to wait.

A film that seems to be getting more notice now is Knight & Day -- it kinda bombed when it came out, but I always liked it (I thought he and Cameron Diaz had comedy chemistry, and of course it's got Paul Dano in it). It is more of a spoof of Cruise himself and his action movies, and is really a Rom-Com with some action set pieces. Cruise is both spoofing his own cliche and also engaging in this low-key understated comedy banter with Diaz throughout. (Diaz is another who really meshes well with comedy, she kinda popped off the screen in "My Best Friend's Wedding.") Their timing together is impeccable. The film dramatically is mostly fluff (there's a few character moments) but as comedy it just feels effortless.

Well, he can't smack up his body forever, I guess. He'll probably look like he's 50 when he turns 70 and might have some more years left in him for other genres.


he slays me in Tropic Thunder. But I think my favorite movie of his is IWAV, and Collateral.
Yeah, that was pretty funny. There were people who didn't recognize him at first.
 

Totenkindly

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I guess back with The Marvels, it's aligned with the Disney money-printing machine. The Marvels is budgeted for $225-275 million range. This typically does not include advertising. (It was only supposed to be $130 million originally but ballooned with reshoots and whatever else.) The variance above supposedly comes from the production costs being $275 million but there was a $55 million dollar stipend from filming in England.

For most companies this is a ridiculous budget, but the MCU was getting away with these $200 million film budgets because their returns for quite awhile was in the $800-1.2 billion dollar return and even a lot more for some of its best films. (Endgame pulled in what, $2.8 billion raw box office, on a $400 million budget?)

Basically their return was so high that they could just throw money at the budgets because they knew they'd get it back.

I don't think since Endgame this has been nearly the case. The Eternals had a $200 million budget and only pulled in $375-400 million from the box office -- and is considered to have overall lost Disney $35-60 million. The worst returns during Phase 4+ might be worse than the first few films released within the MCU before it became a juggernaut.

Spiderman FFH: $160 million / $1.132 billion
Black Widow: $200 million / $375 million
Shang-Chi: $150 million / $432 million
Eternals: $200 million / $401 million
Spiderman NMH: $200 million / $1.9 billion
DS2: $200 million / $952 million
Thor L&T: $250 million / $760 million
Black Panther 2: $250 million / $853 million
Ant Man Quantumania: $200 million / $463 million
GotG3: $250 million / $845 million

Basically the beloved character stuff with great prior entries did well (spiderman, guardians, black panther, and Thor Ragnarok had been a hit and Watiti was doing L&T).

Stuff with lesser known or less popularly loved characters did a lot worse. The box office stuff doesn't all go to Disney, the theaters get returns. For Shang-Chi for example, Disney was probably going to get $200-220 million after the theater cut, but then they probably had spent more in advertising so were still at a loss after the theatrical run but would likely eventually profit off later leverage and indirect revenue from the film.

It was discussed that Quantumania needed $600 million return to break even, but it only made $463 million. Ouch.

Anyway, you can see Disney was throwing money at their MCU films like they could print money, but everything is a decline. L&T is a definitely drop in box office from the prior Ragnarok, even if they did make money on it. Impressively, GOTG3 barely dropped in terms of box office from GOTG2 (they were within about $20-30 million from each other) -- go, James Gunn. And Spiderman is just beloved -- but Disney is mainly getting merchandising income, not box office, because they are Sony films. Durrr....

Pull Spiderman out of there and what do you have left??? Fucking Dr. Strange 2 which might have done well but I consider to be an artistic and writing flop because where can it go next? (1) it abandoned the Mordo setup from DS1 to (2) essentially make Wanda the primary character and ran her into the ground, versus doing anything really that interesting with Strange, (3) really bulloxed its handling of the multiverse, it essentially made the multiverse feeling meaningless rather than cool, (4) introduced a bunch of characters and castings like Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic before 5 minutes later murdering them all in horrific ways, it was a big F-U to the audience. and (5) aside from the introduction of Cleo (who no one really knows, and on whom no info was provided), set up NOTHING else for a next-plotline for Dr. Strange. Like, it was just a strategically bad film... indulgent for Sam Raimi, and otherwise bad narrative positioning.

I mean, the MCU is in pretty shaky territory right now. Disney felt like King of the World through Endgame and then the bottom dropped out. Even Indiana Jones 5 was a box office flop and probably lost them $100 million regardless of whether it was actually good or not (I haven't seen it yet) because making the film was strategically risky with the fanbase.
 

The Cat

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I just want a good 80's sword and sorcery story. But a new one that's not just trying to be a shot for shot remake of an older movie. Give me a movie that feels like Dragon Slayer or Lady Hawk. Give me more like Krull. Dont go insane on the budget or if you do, put it where it matters into art and practical effects instead of just cgi.
 
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I just want a good 80's sword and sorcery story. But a new one that's not just trying to be a shot for shot remake of an older movie. Give me a movie that feels like Dragon Slayer or Lady Hawk. Give me more like Krull. Dont go insane on the budget or if you do, put it where it matters into art and practical effects instead of just cgi.
I heard they were remaking Krull. I've also heard news about them doing The Neverending Story.
 
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The Cat

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this is still how dragons chase me in my dreams, starting out as tiny specs on the horizon doing flybys rarely wasting fire or signaling its position till its ready to strike​
 

Totenkindly

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I just want a good 80's sword and sorcery story. But a new one that's not just trying to be a shot for shot remake of an older movie. Give me a movie that feels like Dragon Slayer or Lady Hawk. Give me more like Krull. Dont go insane on the budget or if you do, put it where it matters into art and practical effects instead of just cgi.
How can you overlook Beastmaster??

I should rewatch Dragonslayer. I had rewatched it after decades a year or two back and it was better than I recalled -- at least it tried to be thoughtful in some ways -- and I picked up the 4K in the last year.

I love Alan Parsons to death but man I dunno about that Ladyhawke score. Maybe a redo would be nice, even if visually Rutger Hauer and Michelle Pfeiffer are so distinctive appearing.

I honestly don't think regular studios know how to handle fantasy films. Even D&D honor Among Thieves could have been better -- it's just every other film in that genre is total trash and it did well by being okay. You're probably going to need some kind of indie film company to do something interesting, kinda like The Green Knight by A24 (although maybe less arthousy). They always get too tied up in the genre and jettison quality of writing and actual creativity. See above about Ladyhawke -- they are going to completely throw in a bunch of schlocky fantasy stuff and not leave it a human story.
 

The Cat

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How can you overlook Beastmaster??

I should rewatch Dragonslayer. I had rewatched it after decades a year or two back and it was better than I recalled -- at least it tried to be thoughtful in some ways -- and I picked up the 4K in the last year.

I love Alan Parsons to death but man I dunno about that Ladyhawke score. Maybe a redo would be nice, even if visually Rutger Hauer and Michelle Pfeiffer are so distinctive appearing.

I honestly don't think regular studios know how to handle fantasy films. Even D&D honor Among Thieves could have been better -- it's just every other film in that genre is total trash and it did well by being okay. You're probably going to need some kind of indie film company to do something interesting, kinda like The Green Knight by A24 (although maybe less arthousy). They always get too tied up in the genre and jettison quality of writing and actual creativity. See above about Ladyhawke -- they are going to completely throw in a bunch of schlocky fantasy stuff and not leave it a human story.
I also didnt mention Red Sonja, but I should have mentioned both, and Conan.
 
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How can you overlook Beastmaster??

I should rewatch Dragonslayer. I had rewatched it after decades a year or two back and it was better than I recalled -- at least it tried to be thoughtful in some ways -- and I picked up the 4K in the last year.

I love Alan Parsons to death but man I dunno about that Ladyhawke score. Maybe a redo would be nice, even if visually Rutger Hauer and Michelle Pfeiffer are so distinctive appearing.
I remember thinking that the score felt very distracting, and took me out of the movie. There should be a cut of that movie with some kind of orchestral score. It's audience expectations, even though orchestral instruments didn't exist in the time period either, it would end up sounding more timeless and less 80s.

Dragonslayer is one I still haven't seen.

My favorite thing about Krull is the Cyclops; he was a very non-stereotypical cyclops. They've been around for quite a while and usually aren't so benevolent. I also think he looks pretty good in terms of FX for the time.
I honestly don't think regular studios know how to handle fantasy films. Even D&D honor Among Thieves could have been better -- it's just every other film in that genre is total trash and it did well by being okay. You're probably going to need some kind of indie film company to do something interesting, kinda like The Green Knight by A24 (although maybe less arthousy). They always get too tied up in the genre and jettison quality of writing and actual creativity. See above about Ladyhawke -- they are going to completely throw in a bunch of schlocky fantasy stuff and not leave it a human story.
 
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The Cat

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I remember thinking that the score felt very distracting, and took me out of the movie. There should be a cut of that movie with some kind of orchestral score. It's audience expectations, even though orchestral instruments didn't exist in the time period either, it would end up sounding more timeless and less 80s.

Dragonslayer is one I still haven't seen.

My favorite thing about Krull is the Cyclops; he was a very non-stereotypical cyclops. They've been around for quite a while and usually aren't so benevolent. I also think he looks pretty good in terms of FX for the time.
I really enjoyed the cyclops also. my favorite thing about Krull was all the stories that I got to enjoy that happened off screen, like the romance between the elderly mentor and the widow of the web, and all the adventures of the king and his lord marshal and why they hold the key etc. the world felt dynamic
 
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I really enjoyed the cyclops also. my favorite thing about Krull was all the stories that I got to enjoy that happened off screen, like the romance between the elderly mentor and the widow of the web, and all the adventures of the king and his lord marshal and why they hold the key etc. the world felt dynamic
I got the impression when I watched it that it was very cyclical. A "all of this happened before and all of this will happen again" type thing.
 

Totenkindly

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I remember the widow of the web love subplot, it was very sad. That might have been my favorite part of the movie.
 

Red Herring

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I've also heard news about them doing The Neverending story.
That, for one, would actually be a remake project I can get behind.

The 1980s film was Wolfgang Peterson's international breakthrough (he was actually the studio's second choice as director but the first choice dropped out of the project) but Michael Ende (on whose bestselling novel the movie is based) absolutely hated it. He called it a "Mickey Mouse version", distanced himself from it and had to be contractually forced not to take any measures against it. It only very superficially covers the first half of the book, is unfaithful to its style and the ending is atrocious and actively violates the spirit of the whole thing. From what I could gather the critical consensus (at least here in Germany) is that it's an okay generic fantasy movie if you don't know the novel but an absolute disappointment to anyone who knows and loves the book.

Peterson wanted to gear it towards the American market and really focus on action and special effects. It was extremely expensive for its time. That was before CGI. A remake would mean a chance to make a more nuanced, poetic, elaborate movie with great modern CGI as an aid. But they could also, again, fall into the trap of going all in on visuals and neglecting the script. Time will tell.
 

The Cat

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I think Mel did good work on this documentary.

I've always wondered why its upsetting to people for things like the coloration of characters or percieved sexualization of characters in Fantasy art. I remember Fire and Ice; the "race" of the characters never really registered with me, because I just assumed that this story was one tiny fraction of the world the story took place in. Different tribes of people, so far back in the past that there were other evolutionary branches of humanity still sharing space with cro magnon hominids.
As far as the sexualization...ill never understand the shame anger that seems to come up around this sort of thing. Just a bunch of screaming on various points of a sliding scale depending on comfort with sex.
Now for those who I havent lost yet, bear with me a bit longer...While I agree it is important that historical movies accurately reflect histroy, science fiction should have elements of real science, and drama/slice of life stories should reflect reality more than they don't.
I dont think this applies to fantasy. Fantasy should be the widest and more plentiful genre in media because everyone has fantasies. and I think there needs to be room for sexy fantasy, horror fantasy, and fantasy that doesnt get held to today's modern sensibilities. I truly do think if there were more fantasy products out there and a bigger part of civilization was put into elevating it. There would be less drama in real life. Been watching the long slow slide into an entertainment dark age spawned from real life dystopia that was literally science fiction 60 years ago...
Its not been a slow march at all.
Riddle me this: How do you get someone and all their friends to jump off a bridge together?

Also...Horror Movie on the social media trends that are getting people killed in real life...Anyone? We get 15 final destinations, but you havent figured out how to make a horror franchise on randonaughting? Get it together MPAA.
Andd Im not telling you to stop making all the neutered saccharine believe in yourself drek that are modern children shows, but ffs also make dark rich compelling children's shit too. Because while yes I want kids to grow up experiencing more empathy than I did, I also don't want them to become a teenager and have nothing in their pop culture to have got them thinking about or at least asking me about some of the more difficult aspects of life. I mean we let kids be combat veterans in school, but little foot's mother being killed by the trex is too much, or frikkin Holly Wood is just too mature for their precious little minds. This feels like madness.
 
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