Rabid Feminist Becomes the Next Dr. Who (Is this finally The End?)

[Mal12345]

I have mixed thoughts on her comments but I think I already more or less summed them up earlier.

I hope they don't diminish the role and make it a PC vehicle, at the same time, I don't see a good reason to not cast a woman.

It makes more sense than a female Kirk just because Dr. Who can appear as any gender. I'm just pointing to the political correctness of this move. Which political group is the BBC trying to appease?

 

[Totenkindly]

Agreed. I think after they cast Connery, Fleming made a fuss about it, and eventually changed his ancestral backstory in the novels to Scottish. I think the next Bond should be as English as they come in terms of his culture, but black. I still want him high culture, eating caviar and sipping martinis made with expensive vodka. A little rough around the edges as Bond should be, but no need to come up with some elaborate backstory about his ancestry either. Besides, Bond is an orphan, so it would make sense a black guy raised in a wealthy English manor would still be very much English culturally speaking.

TBH, I'm not too concerbed with his color, I think "diversity hiring" is silly and believe in meritocracy, but at the same time, it's been 50 years and there's no good reason to not have a black Bond or a female Dr Who, so might as well make it happen.

It kind of shows you how world-illiterate I was when I became an adult, because I remember being shocked (in a good way) and then fascinated when I watched The Crying Game for the first time and saw black characters who did not reflect my experience of black culture in the rural areas of the United States. For some reason I had never made a distinction between the African-American culture and black cultures in other parts of the world.

It wouldn't kill me to see a black Bond, I think it would work; but I agree about keeping Bond in a younger age range. Also, considering what he is (part of the 007 series), the thing is, it doesn't matter how smart and wily you are, it's like men's tennis... you're going to get your ass kicked if you're significantly older and outside the "sweet spot" of prime physical capability, and "getting your ass kicked" here usually means "dead." David Morrell highlighted this in his "The Brother of the Rose" and other assassin/spy novels. I really liked that flashback in the opening of Casino Royale where it shows Bond chalking up one of his kills... it's pretty clear this life is rough, thuggish, brutal, direct, and merciless. It's not all tuxedos and social niceties and casual silencers like how Moore and some of Connery could come across.

 

[Mal12345]

I am myself a huge sci-fi fan too, never liked Dr. Who though. I've tried, but I think it is too cheap.

I write about it on this forum on occasion, for example, my mentioning of one episode (which I only watched the beginning of) in which they used the same cheap sound effect to represent different sounds. The sound effect reminded me of hitting a garbage can lid with a hammer, and was supposed to represent the firing of a gun. The alien fired back with some kind of alien weapon, and it made exactly the same sound as the gun.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

It makes more sense than a female Kirk just because Dr. Who can appear as any gender. I'm just pointing to the political correctness of this move. Which political group is the BBC trying to appease?

My whole black Kirk/female McCoy Rant was more representative of the general nihilism I feel about Star Trek these days. I still am not entirely over Abrams's and Orci's utter fuckery and blatant disregard to the spirit of trek. Abrams made no secret he didn't really watch trek and just wanted to make it like SW. I doubt he knew he'd be directing episode 7 back then, so it was his next big bet to for an iconic sci-fi franchise to fucker around with. Their reimagining was weak, they may as well have made Kirk a female, but had they kept some sense of Trekness about it all, I probably would've accepted that over the film we ended up with. I don't think Trek is about any one character, it's about tackling the human condition and shit, yo

It kind of shows you how world-illiterate I was when I became an adult, because I remember being shocked (in a good way) and then fascinated when I watched The Crying Game for the first time and saw black characters who did not reflect my experience of black culture in the rural areas of the United States. For some reason I had never made a distinction between the African-American culture and black cultures in other parts of the world.

It wouldn't kill me to see a black Bond, I think it would work; but I agree about keeping Bond in a younger age range. Also, considering what he is (part of the 007 series), the thing is, it doesn't matter how smart and wily you are, it's like men's tennis... you're going to get your ass kicked if you're significantly older and outside the "sweet spot" of prime physical capability, and "getting your ass kicked" here usually means "dead." David Morrell highlighted this in his "The Brother of the Rose" and other assassin/spy novels.

I was also shocked the first time I realized there were black people with british accents. It was my own ignorance, having not been exposed to it. Apparently there are also white Jamaicans, albeit a small minority in that country:

I think Moore era Bond would've worked if they'd acknowledged his age and made it a focal point, for instance show him struggling to remain relevant and survive in his job, like they did with Connery in Never Say Never Again.

 

[Lark]

"It feels completely overwhelming, as a feminist, as a woman, as an actor, as a human, as someone who wants to continually push themselves and challenge themselves, and not be boxed in by what you're told you can and can't be," said Whittaker.

If the BBC wants to be edgy, that's fine with me. I don't watch the stupid show anyway. I saw a little bit of it today, by accident, because it happened to be on when I turned on the "telly." It was so bad, it was terrible.

Its been that way for a long time now, they've been dinning out on old characters, old story lines and a lot of it has the feel of poorly drafted fan fiction to me who is a long standing fan of all of the original Doctors and especially all of those from the black and white series.

I only see this as the latest in a long line of disappointments and I think someone even posted a list of all the times fans or others had concluded that Dr Who was "done" before. Not least the time that Americans bought the franchise and seconds after regeneration had their new Doctor making out with his human companion, reveal that rather than infinite regenerations they had a single one left, and the Master transform into a Jason Vorees style mind worm.

BTW there wasnt anything in what they said that sounded "rabid" to me, they use the word feminist and that could mean anything really, it strikes me maybe as naive, all the key words and trigger phrases, they may as well have said "I'm good, I've always been good, and want good, and want to be good... good, good, good... good" for it means.

 

[Lark]

It makes more sense than a female Kirk just because Dr. Who can appear as any gender. I'm just pointing to the political correctness of this move. Which political group is the BBC trying to appease?

Its not trying to appease any because I'm not aware of any campaigning for a transexual Dr Who but it is in keeping, as they reported, with the BBC's "diversity statement", which is fine I suppose, its trending, people arent tired of it yet but I think its redundant, pretty much, maybe it would have been controversial in the seventies or eighties, though today its kind of predictable.

While its nice that british broadcasting has moved on from the days in which all the criminal characters in police dramas were irish actors with strong irish accents but I dont think a lot of the diversity programming is that reflective of the world at large.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Its been that way for a long time now, they've been dinning out on old characters, old story lines and a lot of it has the feel of poorly drafted fan fiction to me who is a long standing fan of all of the original Doctors and especially all of those from the black and white series.

I only see this as the latest in a long line of disappointments and I think someone even posted a list of all the times fans or others had concluded that Dr Who was "done" before. Not least the time that Americans bought the franchise and seconds after regeneration had their new Doctor making out with his human companion, reveal that rather than infinite regenerations they had a single one left, and the Master transform into a Jason Vorees style mind worm.

BTW there wasnt anything in what they said that sounded "rabid" to me, they use the word feminist and that could mean anything really, it strikes me maybe as naive, all the key words and trigger phrases, they may as well have said "I'm good, I've always been good, and want good, and want to be good... good, good, good... good" for it means.

If she said "it feels completely overwhelming, as a Christian..." would you feel any different? same?

to address your other thoughts...yeah, it's a 50+ year old show so there's bound to be instances of repetition and cringe-inducing moments. In a series that old, where the newest writers are very likely to have been fans of the old school version, I suppose it's to be expected that some of it will begin to have that fan fiction feel. I think this has been happening with Star trek for a while too, with Enterprise's fourth season being an especially notable example.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm just pointing to the political correctness of this move. Which political group is the BBC trying to appease?

It is a diversity hire, basically, but I think in this case it's acceptable. I'm not saying she isn't a capable actor, btw

 

[Korvinagor]

Jodie Whittaker: Doctor Who's 13th Time Lord to be a woman - BBC News

Just don't be scared of her gender.

Will the 14th doctor be gay?

Isn't the Doctor Bi? Pretty sure 9 made out with both a guy and a girl, so...

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

As Lark sorta said before, the real issue is the timing. If this happened in, say, 2005 or something, no one would give a shit. In the past few years, however, there's been Gamergate, Fembusters, and other things I won't list because this thread is TL;DR as is. The fact that they're doing this now draws a ton of suspicion. I'm 99% sure they're cashing in on the SJW craze to revive this show's relevance.

 

[Ashtart]

what the above member makes a lot of sense, industries are using diversity to capitalize. Still, I think it is a positive thing overall, because of representation. People like to feel represented in some way when watching what they like, and that is (at least was until few years ago) quite rare for women and minorities.

 

[Lark]

what the above member makes a lot of sense, industries are using diversity to capitalize. Still, I think it is a positive thing overall, because of representation. People like to feel represented in some way when watching what they like, and that is (at least was until few years ago) quite rare for women and minorities.

Its trending so its also commercially a thing, not surprising.

The only problem I have with describing the present craze for diversity as "representative" is that its actually not, I'm doubtful that the disparity between the fictional diversity and the real, actual diversity is explicable by supposing that the intelligentsia of writers are "ahead of the curve/time" or anything of that sort. Its just a bad mistake, which I believe will have negative consequences.

Featuring minorities in every single TV show, often when it does not sync with plot or long established story arcs can only, in a longer term serve to be fanciful, farcical or alienating, none of which will serve any actual diversity. This may not matter were it not for the fact that eventually there will be an implication that failing to feature "diverse" characters will be considered discriminatory even when its unrepresentative or reflective of actual facts. I'm not just talking period dramas.

Little Britain lampooned it in some ways, although I dont think people understood the lampoon and it was more obvious during the radio broadcast episodes which were precursors to the TV show, with the "only gay in the village thing", which if you'd followed the radio comedy actually hinged more than once on the possibility that the character was not actually gay at all.

That's all before you consider the idea of whether or not the whole "diversity" agenda actually supports diversity, it seems to have as many unconscious taboos and blindspots as the social order and traditions it seeks to attack or challenge for that very thing, a number of the big campaigns so far I dont see as a leveling up so much as the imposition of a uniformity, sometimes with exclusionary features, the net result of such would in actuality be less diversity. Its getting a lot of air time though because anything short of the fan fair and cheer leading associated with these campaigns is considered betrayal, bigotry and crime think.

 

[Ashtart]

Its trending so its also commercially a thing, not surprising.

The only problem I have with describing the present craze for diversity as "representative" is that its actually not, I'm doubtful that the disparity between the fictional diversity and the real, actual diversity is explicable by supposing that the intelligentsia of writers are "ahead of the curve/time" or anything of that sort. Its just a bad mistake, which I believe will have negative consequences.

Featuring minorities in every single TV show, often when it does not sync with plot or long established story arcs can only, in a longer term serve to be fanciful, farcical or alienating, none of which will serve any actual diversity. This may not matter were it not for the fact that eventually there will be an implication that failing to feature "diverse" characters will be considered discriminatory even when its unrepresentative or reflective of actual facts. I'm not just talking period dramas.

Little Britain lampooned it in some ways, although I dont think people understood the lampoon and it was more obvious during the radio broadcast episodes which were precursors to the TV show, with the "only gay in the village thing", which if you'd followed the radio comedy actually hinged more than once on the possibility that the character was not actually gay at all.

That's all before you consider the idea of whether or not the whole "diversity" agenda actually supports diversity, it seems to have as many unconscious taboos and blindspots as the social order and traditions it seeks to attack or challenge for that very thing, a number of the big campaigns so far I dont see as a leveling up so much as the imposition of a uniformity, sometimes with exclusionary features, the net result of such would in actuality be less diversity. Its getting a lot of air time though because anything short of the fan fair and cheer leading associated with these campaigns is considered betrayal, bigotry and crime think.

I think that for the future few years we will have an unbalanced representational system, with minorities being overpresented in the media. But, I really believe that after this frenzy stops, we will have a more equal scenario. With the parts being equally represented in the media. We have a history of only white males being strong figures, so I don't think a change of this status quo is a bad thing, even if it is for commercial purposes. Females, non-white, non-hetero people also would like to "see" themselves in the things they watch/read etc. And this is a new thing for them.

 

[Lark]

Isn't the Doctor Bi? Pretty sure 9 made out with both a guy and a girl, so...

If the writers have decided that then its no surprise given the nature of BBC broadcasting but the earliest Dr and travelling companion relationships were strictly plutonic, reasonable when you consider that the Dr is an immortal alien life form, you can safely presume he's thousands or millions of years older than any of his regular human life span travelling companions too, all of which I would think would make any physical intimacy between himself and anyone not a time lord themselves more than a little perverse.

I've never understood why, with the exception of K9 he didnt have more non-human lifeforms as companions, why the Tardis did not have or ever get programmed with a hologram personality like Rimmer or Holly in Red Dwarf, that is another great show managed to be entertaining sci fi appealing to a broader audience without "diversity" stunts.

 

[Lark]

I think that for the future few years we will have an unbalanced representational system, with minorities being overpresented in the media. But, I really believe that after this frenzy stops, we will have a more equal scenario. With the parts being equally represented in the media. We have a history of only white males being strong figures, so I don't think a change of this status quo is a bad thing, even if it is for commercial purposes. Females, non-white, non-hetero people also would like to "see" themselves in the things they watch/read etc. And this is a new thing for them.

See the thing is that if you're going to be strictly representative then certain character types would not be featured at all because proportionally speaking they are such a small part of the population, I can understand people wanting to see role models which reflect them or their communities but I think it could feed ressentiment if peoples expectation of reality is that it more closely resemble a total fiction.

Expectations are important, and easily shaped by the media, if you dont believe it consider that prior to First Blood large hunting knives were considered Bowie knives but afterwards were considered, for a time, to be Rambo knives.

A cant remember who it was but there was a BBC presenter, radio or TV I'm not sure, who had a highly publicised domestic with a celebrity boyfriend and then lots of therapy for depression, they stated that a big part of their problem was a mistaken belief that they had that everyone else was having a much better time, a much better life than they were, better relationships, were lucky in love etc.

In the cases of minority-majority relations, mistakenly heralded as equality issues I think, it can lead minorities to think that if they encounter scenarios which are nothing like those they have been led to expect by the PC media that they are obviously victims of oppressive circumstances, with a set of consequences that run from that and are likely to be negative long term.

Its difficult to see how anyone would really see moves towards inclusion or equality or anti-oppressive practices to be a bad thing but they can easily become a bad thing, false moves in the wrong direction which fail to active the hoped for results.

 

[Ashtart]

See the thing is that if you're going to be strictly representative then certain character types would not be featured at all because proportionally speaking they are such a small part of the population, I can understand people wanting to see role models which reflect them or their communities but I think it could feed ressentiment if peoples expectation of reality is that it more closely resemble a total fiction.

Expectations are important, and easily shaped by the media, if you dont believe it consider that prior to First Blood large hunting knives were considered Bowie knives but afterwards were considered, for a time, to be Rambo knives.

A cant remember who it was but there was a BBC presenter, radio or TV I'm not sure, who had a highly publicised domestic with a celebrity boyfriend and then lots of therapy for depression, they stated that a big part of their problem was a mistaken belief that they had that everyone else was having a much better time, a much better life than they were, better relationships, were lucky in love etc.

In the cases of minority-majority relations, mistakenly heralded as equality issues I think, it can lead minorities to think that if they encounter scenarios which are nothing like those they have been led to expect by the PC media that they are obviously victims of oppressive circumstances, with a set of consequences that run from that and are likely to be negative long term.

Its difficult to see how anyone would really see moves towards inclusion or equality or anti-oppressive practices to be a bad thing but they can easily become a bad thing, false moves in the wrong direction which fail to active the hoped for results.

I understand where you are coming from, yet, I can't agree with you. Many people don't represent that "place" in real life because they never really had a chance to.
For example, we have really few black wealthy characters. And the accurate thing would be if they were represented as more middle class, poor etc. But being represented as a wealthy person may be a good thing for, example, a black kid who would like too see someone who resembles themselves in a movie/tv show.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This is another chink in the conspiracy to ruin my childhood by showing women doing things. I thought Trump was going to put a stop to this!

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

SJW thing or not, if there's a demand, then no good reason not to meet said demand. Seems free market to me.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

This is another chink in the conspiracy to ruin my childhood by showing women doing things. I thought Trump was going to put a stop to this!

I had said before in another thread that in some ways Trump might do more for the causes of progressivism, civil liberties and scientific truth than Obama could've ever hoped to achieve. When you have a president who refers to climate change as a hoax and who is a threat to civil liberties, it has a way of really motivating people, whereas I think people on the left of the center were very complacent under Obama and took much for granted, getting drunk on the narrative and rhetoric of inevitable change and progress, assuming the daddy state would fix all. Democracy works from the bottom up, not top down.