[Traditional Enneagram] Quick view on relationships. What enneagram?

[westrom]

I can definitely relate.

I always automatically befriended people who seemed inferior, I was always the queen of wallflowers who I wanted to make into something else, but I was actually looking for followers and an audience, it's so clear now. I rejected all the popular people who wanted to be friends with me, I think deep down I felt inferior and deep down I thought anyone better than me would see me as their little follower and I couldn't let that happen, I just can't stand things like that, I couldn't even let my parents own me like that (I think you mentioned something about that too). So I put myself above them by rejecting them.
I had one more popular friend(nice girl though) and I just couldn't deal with it, once we had a minor fight when I was 13 and my dad said something that suggested that I need her so therefore I should call her and I went crazy.
It's generally a pattern in my life, I hang out with people who need me and people who owe me something, it's...sad, although I usually tend to feel proud of it at the same time because "They need me"

100%. Everything. The only difference - I didn't befriend people that easily, as I wasn't that confidant to do so. But I always wanted that.

When I was in fifth grade one friend told me "You were probably popular in elementary school"(lol popularity in elementary )
But that's another thing that's always been happening, always stuck in something I can't really describe, some kind of carrying around an image that's bigger than reality, but not just image, part of inwardness too, I FELT I should be but the world didn't always work the way my feelings did. So was I popular? I really have no idea, I guess (and hope ) that people did talk about me at least.

I am not sure.

And yeah, with men too, always someone who never even dreamed of having me, and that was all I needed to do, be with them. I could sometimes play with it sooo much, just to see how much crap they can take for the possibility of having sex with me one day, maybe.
But I could never be attracted to them because I'm ALWAYS actually attracted to unavailable people, or people who have the power to do to me what I do to others. But I reject them at the same time, it's a very odd combination.
My biggest dream when it comes to men was always someone 100% dedicated to ME, someone who's a complete loner and a misanthrope yet loves me, needs no one but me, but that doesn't really exist, does it?
But at the same time I really would be willing to do anything for some people, for example a while ago I talked to someone about S&M and submissive/dominant in relationship and the person was bothered by being submissive and I thought "I don't love the idea but I'd be anything as long as I'm the only one, better me than someone else" and it's true, I can even get jealous for such CRAZY things. Don't wanna give concrete examples ,but say, if someone I like gives attention to someone else I can get jealous even if it's negative because it's a sign they care about that person, even if it's in a negative way. That's why I like negative attention too, the line between love and hate is too blurry for me to not like it.

Well, I am also attracted to unavailable, better people, but at the same time I wouldn't really want / get along with them.
Same with "other half", I have even had "imaginations" that I find one like that...It's unrealistic I guess.
I don't know whether I would do anything for someone. But if that's a really close person, and I know that my effort will not be wasted, perhaps I would?...
Yea. Like, when I read it(jealous even if it's negative because it's a sign they care that person), it clicked me as: why do that? it probably reveals that hse is bored, so focusing on others...But I'd definitely not be like that all the time, just saying that it could happen.

I don't think I am 8 either. Pretty sure on being image type...

 

[_Radioactive_]

I am not sure.

Anything particular confusing you?

Well, I am also attracted to unavailable, better people, but at the same time I wouldn't really want / get along with them.
Same with "other half", I have even had "imaginations" that I find one like that...It's unrealistic I guess.
I don't know whether I would do anything for someone. But if that's a really close person, and I know that my effort will not be wasted, perhaps I would?...
Yea. Like, when I read it(jealous even if it's negative because it's a sign they care that person), it clicked me as: why do that? it probably reveals that hse is bored, so focusing on others...But I'd definitely not be like that all the time, just saying that it could happen.

I don't get the second part, can you relate to what I said or not? Do you mean you'd sometimes feel jealous but rationalize it away?

I don't think I am 8 either. Pretty sure on being image type...

Nothing here seems that 8, not sure where people are seeing it

 

[westrom]

Anything particular confusing you?


I don't get the second part, can you relate to what I said or not? Do you mean you'd sometimes feel jealous but rationalize it away?


Nothing here seems that 8, not sure where people are seeing it

No, I am just not sure whether I relate or not.

Yes, I do. But I try to be rational about that, and don't share crazy thoughts like that...Yea, exactly, for the most part. Do you, or you just think out loud? lol

I guess 8 is like being more powerful than others. lol. It makes sense why people see it.

 

[_Radioactive_]

No, I am just not sure whether I relate or not.

Yes, I do. But I try to be rational about that, and don't share crazy thoughts like that...Yea, exactly, for the most part. Do you, or you just think out loud? lol

I guess 8 is like being more powerful than others. lol. It makes sense why people see it.

How do you deal with those thoughts?

 

[_Radioactive_]

Btw I can find it very hard to hide things like that completely.
I can hide them from one person or group of people, but never completely and never from myself and I always at least desire and strive towards getting it out. Actually I drop hints a lot, it can get dangerous, but even when I lie I still try ro get close to truth because I really wanna share the truth. Not THE truth though, share myself is probably a more accurate way to put it, I wanna be seen as I am, I don't wanna be sugarcoated.
If I am proud of something, I want it known, or at the very least I don't wanna hide it for nothing.

 

[Kheledon]

I'd guess 1w2, frankly. The 1 needs to be "right" and do the right thing. You can't be right if your mate is "right" more often than you are.

I'd also guess xNFJ as your MBTI. As an ENFJ, I have a compulsive need to improve the lives of others, to be good, to do right by others, and to make the world a better place. How better to do so than to hook up with someone who is damaged and needs your love and guidance?

Does that sound familiar?

 

[Duffy]

@_Radioactve_

What's your instinct? I'm guessing sx/sp or sp/sx.

 

[_Radioactive_]

@_Radioactve_

What's your instinct? I'm guessing sx/sp or sp/sx.

I'm guessing the same

What gives it away?

 

[Duffy]

I'm guessing the same

What gives it away?

There's no element of "play" involved. Social is about building a connection and that's one way to tip you off. They also go down more smoothly, but less fulfilling.

You strike me as more intensity driven -- getting to the good stuff. They don't go down as smoothly, and there's more of a love / hate relationship. Selectiveness being an element of sexual because it has to do with mating. There's also more self focus in what you've written.

 

[_Radioactive_]

There's no element of "play" involved. Social is about building a connection and that's one way to tip you off. They also go down more smoothly, but less fulfilling.

You strike me as more intensity driven -- getting to the good stuff. They don't go down as smoothly, and there's more of a love / hate relationship. Selectiveness being an element of sexual because it has to do with mating. There's also more self focus in what you've written.

Yes, I can definitely relate, I've always been bad at just hanging out and slowly getting to know people through light conversations, common interests, friends, etc.
That's why I was always a total usually friendly but mysterious acquaintance or I immediately grabbed onto a person.
Even as a small child, people I liked I immediately pulled into my room and didn't let out till I showed them everything there was to see.

 

[westrom]

How do you deal with those thoughts?

"It's not as important, focus on more meaningful things...(to myself)". Or I just get in touch with my feelings for a second, and then almost forget about it...I think?

Btw I can find it very hard to hide things like that completely.
I can hide them from one person or group of people, but never completely and never from myself and I always at least desire and strive towards getting it out. Actually I drop hints a lot, it can get dangerous, but even when I lie I still try ro get close to truth because I really wanna share the truth. Not THE truth though, share myself is probably a more accurate way to put it, I wanna be seen as I am, I don't wanna be sugarcoated.
If I am proud of something, I want it known, or at the very least I don't wanna hide it for nothing.

I can't imagine myself knowing something important about one, yet don't tell anything about it...If I feel like it's not just a tiny, silly thought, then I will most likely share it...Me too.
I always tell people what I am proud of. lol. But it also depends one the person. Sharing some things with specific person, it could actually seem like nothing much to him, but I guess I would still want to tell about it.

I'd guess 1w2, frankly. The 1 needs to be "right" and do the right thing. You can't be right if your mate is "right" more often than you are.

I'd also guess xNFJ as your MBTI. As an ENFJ, I have a compulsive need to improve the lives of others, to be good, to do right by others, and to make the world a better place. How better to do so than to hook up with someone who is damaged and needs your love and guidance?

Does that sound familiar?

I don't think I am that concerned with doing the right thing tbh, like 1s are. Also, I don't relate to description + fears that much.

Hm. I am sure I am NJ. Me too, but I focus on few people, not groups, not trying to make the world a better place. Yea, exactly.

 

[_Radioactive_]

"It's not as important, focus on more meaningful things...(to myself)". Or I just get in touch with my feelings for a second, and then almost forget about it...I think?



I can't imagine myself knowing something important about one, yet don't tell anything about it...If I feel like it's not just a tiny, silly thought, then I will most likely share it...Me too.
I always tell people what I am proud of. lol. But it also depends one the person. Sharing some things with specific person, it could actually seem like nothing much to him, but I guess I would still want to tell about it.



I don't think I am that concerned with doing the right thing tbh, like 1s are. Also, I don't relate to description + fears that much.

Hm. I am sure I am NJ. Me too, but I focus on few people, not groups, not trying to make the world a better place. Yea, exactly.

What do you mean it's not important? How do you get in touch with feelings when those are the feelings, wouldn't that mean you're getting more deeply into that?



What I meant is, say, really wanting to express jealousy sometimes, and other bad emotions, because they tell things about me I'm proud of and don't wanna hide, or I just wanna create the effect expressing some things would create.




Agree, you seem more image-y to me.

 

[westrom]

What do you mean it's not important? How do you get in touch with feelings when those are the feelings, wouldn't that mean you're getting more deeply into that?



What I meant is, say, really wanting to express jealousy sometimes, and other bad emotions, because they tell things about me I'm proud of and don't wanna hide, or I just wanna create the effect expressing some things would create.




Agree, you seem more image-y to me.

Perhaps I realize that I shouldn't get more deeply into that, so I think logically of that situation then...But if i am bored, I will probably not stop, and think about it, and it will make me feel sad.

Yea. It's weird that some hide that, it will only hurt them...That's another reason, like we? have a perfect idea of what we want to express, but we might not be able to do that, if one doesn't know something that we do...

 

[_Radioactive_]

Perhaps I realize that I shouldn't get more deeply into that, so I think logically of that situation then...But if i am bored, I will probably not stop, and think about it, and it will make me feel sad.

Yea. It's weird that some hide that, it will only hurt them...That's another reason, like we? have a perfect idea of what we want to express, but we might not be able to do that, if one doesn't know something that we do...

Why do you feel you shouldn't get more deeply into it?

Reminds me of how sometimes I make it as clear as possible that I'm just being polite to some people.
Like, I'm nice so they wouldn't have actual proof of me not being nice but at the same time I show I'm actually not.

 

[_Radioactive_]

(Btw what you said applies to me when it comes to typing, I hate the idea of getting misunderstood and mistyped just because I'm being appropriate instead of honest)

 

[westrom]

Why do you feel you shouldn't get more deeply into it?

Reminds me of how sometimes I make it as clear as possible that I'm just being polite to some people.
Like, I'm nice so they wouldn't have actual proof of me not being nice but at the same time I show I'm actually not.

I understand that there are more important things to focus on?

Same, and it's not like that just with being polite. It's like wanting others to adapt and accept us?

(Btw what you said applies to me when it comes to typing, I hate the idea of getting misunderstood and mistyped just because I'm being appropriate instead of honest)

I don't like it at all either.

Uh, I can't think clearly now...

 

[_Radioactive_]

I understand that there are more important things to focus on?

Yes, but what do you mean there are more important things? What kind of things? Why are they more important?
I mean, if you are feeling certain way, how do you approach the situation? What do you do with the person making you feel that way? What do you do with your relationship? Why?
(Many questions, I know, don't have to answer here but it'd be useful , maybe I can relate to something )

Same, and it's not like that just with being polite. It's like wanting others to adapt and accept us?

What do you mean adapt?

 

[_Radioactive_]

For me it's like...
(This is gonna sound bad but for the sake of sincerity)
I really don't like being impolite in front of people who don't know what's going on.
So like, I act polite but for example I say things in a voice I know they know I use when I don't like someone, because I really don't want them to think I like them when I don't, there's just something so freeing about letting people know how you feel about them.
Yet I don't wanna seem bitchy in front of bunch of people who I barely know and who think the person is completely innocent.

 

[westrom]

Yes, but what do you mean there are more important things? What kind of things? Why are they more important?
I mean, if you are feeling certain way, how do you approach the situation? What do you do with the person making you feel that way? What do you do with your relationship? Why?
(Many questions, I know, don't have to answer here but it'd be useful , maybe I can relate to something )




What do you mean adapt?

Idk. We are talking about getting jealous over little things...i exaggerate those moments, that's why I kinda say to myself that there are more important things to focus on etc...
I'll betterskip this...

Hmm. I mean that others would think and act the way we want.

For me it's like...
(This is gonna sound bad but for the sake of sincerity)
I really don't like being impolite in front of people who don't know what's going on.
So like, I act polite but for example I say things in a voice I know they know I use when I don't like someone, because I really don't want them to think I like them when I don't, there's just something so freeing about letting people know how you feel about them.
Yet I don't wanna seem bitchy in front of bunch of people who I barely know and who think the person is completely innocent.

Being in impolite in front of people who don't know what's going on? What do you mean exactly? People who don't understand what's going on in the world, are lazy, or what?
YES. It would be a impossible challenge to tell someone I hate, that I like him. I never liked one of my grandmas, because she kinda controlled on of my parents. She lived together with us, and I would never even try to show that I like in her ANY WAY. I take it seriously, I wouldn't show any signs of that I care to anyone else as well...It's not just with her, but with other people I really dislike as well. And I hated seeing "a victim", actually taking care of her anyway, saying that she's just old, and she shouldn't be ignored??? Tbh she's the only reason I do relate to Fe polr a bit.
Idk, I've been asked few times "how do you feel about her, or me?", and I wouldn't answer. I kinda dislike expressing my opinion on specific person, unless it's negative, and I hate that person. I guess I am really bad at giving complements as well, it's like telling others I care is very hard for me, I am not sure why?

Bitchy like what? Try to change their minds about that person?

4 am...

 

[Kheledon]

Hm. I am sure I am NJ. Me too, but I focus on few people, not groups, not trying to make the world a better place. Yea, exactly.

I hear you on that. My deepest desire (given my sx/sp instincts) is to hook up with just one person with whom I share everything and from whom I hide nothing. My children mean a lot to me too, and I, like you, prefer to maintain just a few, really close friends (with a whole lot of contacts, acquaintances, and professional colleagues). I find that I have to focus on just a few. I expend so much energy maintaining close relations with people that if I had more truly close friends, I could easily spread myself too thin (as I have done in the past).

Excellent observation!