[INFP] (patiently) ask an INFP!!1

[JivinJeffJones]

Is this thread billed for work or play?
Or do INFPs prefer play over work?

Just wait until someone asks a serious question that engages Fi. You've been around here longer than I have. You're familiar with the INFP wall-o-texts that ensue.

 

[KDude]

our flights of fancy are CLEARLY better than stinking real world stuffs

Yeah, did I just say I wanted to be mature? Who am I kidding?

Down the rabbit hole, I go....

 

[KDude]

Is it easier for INFPs to drop straight into Ne mode?
Why do you do that?




http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1545797

like i'm one to talk

This is from Socionics, but it still applies.. I've seen Myers address auxiliary the same (at least, in introverts).

Creative function
This function describes the primary mode of application of the base function. If the base function forms the core of the individual's personal quests and interests ("What's in it for me?", "What do I want to be?"), the creative function describes his main instrument for interacting with the rest of society ("How do I make contact with other people?").

People use their creative function less than their base function and attach less personal significance to it, although due to the nature of blocked functions it is usually used in tandem with the base function. In their value system, their creative function activities seem less personally significant than their base function activities. When other people try to make this function the main criterion for everything, light irritation can arise, and the person may try to "correct" the other person's emphasis by presenting a perspective from his base function and suggesting that this is more important. Also, when other people express problems having to do with this information aspect, the person quickly takes interest and tries to present solutions — but always through his own base function. For instance, an ESFp will try to help other people solve their Fi related problems (relationships and understanding between people) through a Se perspective (making sure you know what you want and are trying to achieve it; understanding the territorial aspect of interaction; recognizing the obvious "dumb things" that people are doing that are ruining the relationship). When people get to use their creative function to help others' problems, they feel needed and fulfilled and begin to live more fully. Likewise, criticism in this area is more sensitive and unpleasant than in the base function.
Use of the creative function — while frequent and effortless — seems to turn on and off. One moment the person may seem highly interested in this aspect, and the next — totally indifferent. This may jar people for whom this aspect of reality is of more supreme importance and who expect more consistent attention and effort in this area. A good example of this is one's interaction with their mirror partner; each person's leading function is subject to the other's creativity function, so even though both partners do share similar worldviews, they are apt to 'correct' or add on to the other's rigid and finalized points.

 

[William K]

What is Ne mode?

My answer: Because we're awesome. and our flights of fancy are CLEARLY better than stinking real world stuffs

That's part of it. Also, one of the things Fi does for me is separate between important and not-so-important stuff. When it's not so important stuff that needs to be extraverted, fluffy Ne mode is so much less stressful and quicker to act

 

[Totenkindly]

Just wait until someone asks a serious question that engages Fi. You've been around here longer than I have. You're familiar with the INFP wall-o-texts that ensue.

Oh, I know all this, actually.
(I'm just trying to stimulate conversation until the real questions show up!)

And like I hinted above, I'm kind of a big Ne whore myself.
My favorite parts of my relationships with my INFP friends are how we "play" together.

I just have to think of a really great question that might trigger an INFP deluge of fervent diatribe. Hmmm..... Where to start?

Creative function
This function describes the primary mode of application of the base function. If the base function forms the core of the individual's personal quests and interests ("What's in it for me?", "What do I want to be?"), the creative function describes his main instrument for interacting with the rest of society ("How do I make contact with other people?").

People use their creative function less than their base function and attach less personal significance to it, although due to the nature of blocked functions it is usually used in tandem with the base function. In their value system, their creative function activities seem less personally significant than their base function activities. When other people try to make this function the main criterion for everything, light irritation can arise, and the person may try to "correct" the other person's emphasis by presenting a perspective from his base function and suggesting that this is more important. Also, when other people express problems having to do with this information aspect, the person quickly takes interest and tries to present solutions — but always through his own base function. For instance, an ESFp will try to help other people solve their Fi related problems (relationships and understanding between people) through a Se perspective (making sure you know what you want and are trying to achieve it; understanding the territorial aspect of interaction; recognizing the obvious "dumb things" that people are doing that are ruining the relationship). When people get to use their creative function to help others' problems, they feel needed and fulfilled and begin to live more fully. Likewise, criticism in this area is more sensitive and unpleasant than in the base function.
Use of the creative function — while frequent and effortless — seems to turn on and off. One moment the person may seem highly interested in this aspect, and the next — totally indifferent. This may jar people for whom this aspect of reality is of more supreme importance and who expect more consistent attention and effort in this area. A good example of this is one's interaction with their mirror partner; each person's leading function is subject to the other's creativity function, so even though both partners do share similar worldviews, they are apt to 'correct' or add on to the other's rigid and finalized points.

Thanks for this.

(As verification, I can see that same pattern in me too. Watch how I end up sharing Ti ideas via an Ne interface/connection pattern.... and how I end up obsessively tweaking and/or even becoming annoyed with the ENPs broad concepts that seem unnuanced to me... watch me and Oberon talk, for example.)

I'll have to read more about this, thanks for the direction.

 

[INTPness]

I definitely have "serious" questions concerning Fi (Fi is an interesting animal) but it's been my experience that Fi'ers really don't want/like those serious questions - and sometimes the dialogue becomes delicate, stressful, or even heated (both IRL and on the forum). So, if my question fits the "uncomfortable" category, just politely let me know and I'll skip on my merry way. I come not to stir up the pot, but to understand the animal that is Fi.

I'll ask it bluntly: Why do you guys not clearly express what Fi is feeling/thinking? If you're upset, mad, angry, disappointed, frustrated, feeling ignored/betrayed, etc. - why not just tell the other person exactlly what those feelings are, which then gives that other person something tangible to work with. Basically, my confusion with this part of Fi is that if you never voice what's going on inside (plainly, clearly), then you'll probably never get any results that resemble what you're hoping for/wanting.

If I could draw an analogy, it'd be something like this: The Fi'er really, really wants a shiny red sports car for their birthday (or a penguin, or a pony, or something along these lines). When someone asks you, "What would you like for your birthday?" (cuz they want to get you something you'll really like), you just say, "Ehhh, I dunno, a gift card"
And, so, you end up getting a gift card and you feel upset or kind of sad that you didn't get the sports car. Well, you didn't get it cuz you didn't ask.

Or, the Fi'er wants to spend time with someone they love. And they talk to the person they love on the phone and the person says, "Whatcha doing tonight?" And the Fi'er says, "Heh, not much." So, the other person thinks, "Hmmm, OK, they aren't doing much and I'd like to see them, but I know they like their space and I don't want to impose, so I'll just leave it at that and maybe see them next week sometime." Then they say, "OK Fi'er, good talking to you, we'll catch up next week." And then find out later that Fi'er was very upset and wanted them to come over.

Why doesn't Fi'er just say, "Yo, check it out. I want a red sports car for my birthday and I also want you to come over tonight and hang out with me cuz I miss you." Straight up. Tell it like it is. Done! Finished! Wish granted. It can be so easy, so simple. But, instead, you never voice these Fi desires and so the other person..........never knows what it is you wanted. Inevitably, this will cause feelings of hurt and neglect and "he just doesn't know me".

I've heard 2 different reasons for this "holding back": 1) It's hard and/or uncomfortable to express. 2) Fi'er doesn't want the other person to do something for them "just because they told them they wanted it" (thereby "prompting" the action); instead, Fi'er only wants things to be done for them without prompting, completely of the other person's free will.

If I compare Fi to my own Ti, then yeah, I can relate that it's sometimes hard to express "complex thoughts" into mere words (and some things get lost in translation), but if I really want something, you better believe I'm coming out with it eventually.

Why Fi'ers? Why?

Again, if this question/probing seems in any way hostile, critical, or uncomfortable, just send me on my way and I'll leave. I think it gets touchy sometimes and that's not my intention here.

 

[Totenkindly]

You forgot the "sacrificial offerings of cute bunny, kitten, puppy, penguins, etc pictures" to help speed up the response time.

But us Ti doms have to stick together -- I'll cover ya this time!

There. That should cover you. Good luck!

 

[nolla]

I've heard 2 different reasons for this "holding back": 1) It's hard and/or uncomfortable to express. 2) Fi'er doesn't want the other person to do something for them "just because they told them they wanted it" (thereby "prompting" the action); instead, Fi'er only wants things to be done for them without prompting, completely of the other person's free will.

Yeah, you pretty much answered it yourself. I can elaborate a bit on these.

1) It's not only that it is hard or unconfortable. It's also that I know how seriously people take words, and if I explain exactly how I feel it will give a different image of the situation. This has backfired on me so many times. I tell someone how I feel about some situation, and they completely overreact to it. I guess it's because I try so hard to explain it to the smallest detail that it all comes overwhelming to the other person and they think like I am about to explode any minute. And in fact this was not an extreme feeling like that for me. It might also be some sort of a shock to get this from a person who is outwardly quite calm and collected most of the time. So, if I tell anything about anything I am feeling unconfortable with, it is taken as some sort of a special occation that even I could be uncomfortable and uncertain about something. So, I don't tell them because they get the wrong message.

2) Yes. Asking for people to do something for me is uncomfortable. I feel like I am imposing on them. I feel good about a situation where people know that they can trust the fact that they are important to me just being who they are, not because they do something for me. Also, when someone gives me a present, there is the expectation that I should give something back sometime in the future. I don't like putting people in situations like that because I don't like that sort of expectations myself. But this might be more prominent in myself because I don't like consumerism at all, and so, wouldn't buy stuff for people anyways and discourage people buying stuff for me.

EDIT: BTW, the sacrificial bunny was appreciated.

 

[INTPness]

LOL. Nice. Thanks, Jennifer. Those little hobgobblins definitely demand a speedy response.

 

[INTPness]

Yeah, you pretty much answered it yourself. I can elaborate a bit on these.

1) It's not only that it is hard or unconfortable. It's also that I know how seriously people take words, and if I explain exactly how I feel it will give a different image of the situation. This has backfired on me so many times. I tell someone how I feel about some situation, and they completely overreact to it. I guess it's because I try so hard to explain it to the smallest detail that it all comes overwhelming to the other person and they think like I am about to explode any minute. And in fact this was not an extreme feeling like that for me. It might also be some sort of a shock to get this from a person who is outwardly quite calm and collected most of the time. So, if I tell anything about anything I am feeling unconfortable with, it is taken as some sort of a special occation that even I could be uncomfortable and uncertain about something. So, I don't tell them because they get the wrong message.

2) Yes. Asking for people to do something for me is uncomfortable. I feel like I am imposing on them. I feel good about a situation where people know that they can trust the fact that they are important to me just being who they are, not because they do something for me. Also, when someone gives me a present, there is the expectation that I should give something back sometime in the future. I don't like putting people in situations like that because I don't like that sort of expectations myself. But this might be more prominent in myself because I don't like consumerism at all, and so, wouldn't buy stuff for people anyways and discourage people buying stuff for me.

Thanks, nolla! Interesting. What say you about these things:

if you never voice what's going on inside (plainly, clearly), then you'll probably never get any results that resemble what you're hoping for/wanting.

and

you never voice these Fi desires and so the other person..........never knows what it is you wanted. Inevitably, this will cause feelings of hurt and neglect and "he just doesn't know me".

Oh, almost forgot:

 

[Anew Leaf]

Would you rather want to be an INFJ, if chance allows?

Nope. I am actually closest on the J/P scale.. But no. For some reason I tend to collect INFJs as friends.... And then lose them the fastest out of all the NFs. That I plus J can be a deadly combo.

 

[nolla]

if you never voice what's going on inside (plainly, clearly), then you'll probably never get any results that resemble what you're hoping for/wanting.

you never voice these Fi desires and so the other person..........never knows what it is you wanted. Inevitably, this will cause feelings of hurt and neglect and "he just doesn't know me".

Yeah, these can become issues. It is a question of balance. Obviously I can't be all shut up all the time. I do give hints, then even quite blunt hints, then I try to steer a related discussion to the subject that's bothering me, and then if all these more subtle ways fail, then I stop people with "There's something we need to discuss". I really wouldn't like it to go that far, because the issue usually isn't THAT big a deal. It's like, when you stop people to discuss about something, they expect it to be really serious.

I don't really think that this is a problem with people who keep their ears open. I hardly ever request anything from people, so usually a small hint is enough. It does become a problem with a person who doesn't notice it or disregards it. Then I have to be more blunt. I also conform to the communication style of the person, so if someone is the type of a person who just asks other people for favours and assistance regularly, I don't feel discomfort in asking them something. This is a dynamic process here. If I see a person never gets any hints I will force myself to adapt to their style of communication.

But, yeah, you are right that if someone is staying only in the don't ask don't tell kind of a communication, the results are less than optimal.

 

[Totenkindly]

Along with those lines, too, I've had issues with INFP guys not just coming out and saying what they want. One was a friendship, where I kept just waiting for my friend to say exactly what I knew he was thinking... but he always reined it in. Always. he was always "nice" even when he didn't have to be. (And then I'd get tired of waiting, and blurt it out myself, and he'd burst out laughing.) It was so funny!

The other was with the man I dated for some time. I had the issue where he wouldn't say exactly what he wanted/meant, so I would assume that he didn't want/need anything and then he was horribly hurt that I did not figure it out but didn't say anything until stress points later in the relationship. I also had situations where he would ask me in such roundabout ways that it still wasn't clear what he actually wanted, and all I wanted him to do was be bold and bluntly, directly, say it even if there was a risk I could be hurt or angry. The communication was more important to me.

why, oh why?

Nope. I am actually closest on the J/P scale.. But no. For some reason I tend to collect INFJs as friends.... And then lose them the fastest out of all the NFs. That I plus J can be a deadly combo.

That's interesting. Why do you think you lose them so quickly?

(For me, my INFJ friends are the ones I stick with -- we seem to respect each other's space very well, but we immediately sync up whenever we come together.)

 

[Anew Leaf]

Wow, this is sounding much more like "ungoverned Ne thread" than "Fi thread."

Is it easier for INFPs to drop straight into Ne mode?
Why do you do that?






like i'm one to talk

I'm very new on what the functions are so here I am winging it with my Ne in overdrive. Ha!

Ne for me is like a safe version of Fi. It showcases my personality while protecting me from actually getting hurt. Fi is like a fricking unicorn land where the unicorns horns are made of kool whip, their hooves are as sharp as pillows, and they can't neigh but only purr.

Ne is also extraverted so it's the easiest way of dealing with other people too. It's typically kind of charming and quirky. It's also the most fun way of interacting with other Ns. I adore that N action where it's a back and forth of thoughts and ideas and made up stuff.

So I use N because it's much much preferable to use that instead of Fi for interactions with others, and because quite frankly, it's the better received function of the two.

The alternative for us to use is Fi, and like I mentioned, it's super unguarded and mushy. I'm sure there is someone who gets the functions better than I, but that's what can do now.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Along with those lines, too, I've had issues with INFP guys not just coming out and saying what they want. One was a friendship, where I kept just waiting for my friend to say exactly what I knew he was thinking... but he always reined it in. Always. he was always "nice" even when he didn't have to be. (And then I'd get tired of waiting, and blurt it out myself, and he'd burst out laughing.) It was so funny!

The other was with the man I dated for some time. I had the issue where he wouldn't say exactly what he wanted/meant, so I would assume that he didn't want/need anything and then he was horribly hurt that I did not figure it out but didn't say anything until stress points later in the relationship. I also had situations where he would ask me in such roundabout ways that it still wasn't clear what he actually wanted, and all I wanted him to do was be bold and bluntly, directly, say it even if there was a risk I could be hurt or angry. The communication was more important to me.

why, oh why?



That's interesting. Why do you think you lose them so quickly?

(For me, my INFJ friends are the ones I stick with -- we seem to respect each other's space very well, but we immediately sync up whenever we come together.)

Maybe is a bit of the adage, familiarity breeds contempt? They are so similar and yet different in a key way. I find them to be a bit overbearing after awhile. With me going, why does it matter if we do this? Gah!

My ENFJ friends (had few of these) last longer because they tend to help break me out of my shell and give me some good structure. All that Fe makes me more comfy to be a bit Fi with them.

Most of my friends have been NFPs. Just the way it's happened. . And two of the three were in college (INFJ) and so we just kinda moved apart. The last I had a big blowup with due to some drama she was causing in our bible study group. (making mix CDs for the ENFJs husband, and calling him all the time.... And crying to me that the ENFJ was mean to her.... When all the ENFJ Said was, uh... Why are you calling my husband so much?). I take her as an INFJ sampling error.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Is this thread billed for work or play?
Or do INFPs prefer play over work?

I work hard at playing.

 

[nolla]

Along with those lines, too, I've had issues with INFP guys not just coming out and saying what they want. One was a friendship, where I kept just waiting for my friend to say exactly what I knew he was thinking... but he always reined it in. Always. he was always "nice" even when he didn't have to be. (And then I'd get tired of waiting, and blurt it out myself, and he'd burst out laughing.) It was so funny!

The other was with the man I dated for some time. I had the issue where he wouldn't say exactly what he wanted/meant, so I would assume that he didn't want/need anything and then he was horribly hurt that I did not figure it out but didn't say anything until stress points later in the relationship. I also had situations where he would ask me in such roundabout ways that it still wasn't clear what he actually wanted, and all I wanted him to do was be bold and bluntly, directly, say it even if there was a risk I could be hurt or angry. The communication was more important to me.

It seems to me like there is this conscious effort I have to make to be blunt even in the case where I know (with 100% certainty) that the other person will not take it too badly. I think I am finally getting better at this. I don't know if it is just about being a Fi dom, or is it about some trust issues in general. Probably both. Anyways, there are few types of people who I've been "practicing" this with lately. One is the type of a person who gets angry real fast and then calms down fast too, the other is the type of a person who can be very very brutal with words, so I don't bother to think about my word choices either. It seems like it is easier for me to do this with people who are more extreme with their output and expressions. I guess that's because I can see it so clearly where the line of hurting their feelings go.

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm very new on what the functions are so here I am winging it with my Ne in overdrive. Ha!

Ne for me is like a safe version of Fi. It showcases my personality while protecting me from actually getting hurt. Fi is like a fricking unicorn land where the unicorns horns are made of kool whip, their hooves are as sharp as pillows, and they can't neigh but only purr.

Ne is also extraverted so it's the easiest way of dealing with other people too. It's typically kind of charming and quirky. It's also the most fun way of interacting with other Ns. I adore that N action where it's a back and forth of thoughts and ideas and made up stuff.

So I use N because it's much much preferable to use that instead of Fi for interactions with others, and because quite frankly, it's the better received function of the two.

The alternative for us to use is Fi, and like I mentioned, it's super unguarded and mushy. I'm sure there is someone who gets the functions better than I, but that's what can do now.

I actually follow a lot of that (it parallels my experience with TiNe), except that I consider Ti to be the cold, unyielding, dangerous function. Ti cannot be negotiated with, it has no interest in compromise. Its only choice is to speak or not speak, but it cannot change the words that come out of its mouth just to cushion a blow. It can only speak what it sees to be true. Otherwise it would be like saying 2+5 = 9, and it would rather not compromise itself by speaking if told it cannot say the truth.

I use Ne naturally to cushion Ti truth ... expressing it more flexible ways, as pokes, jabs, jests, insinuations, allusions, etc. Ne is the explorer that asks "what if?" and "why not?" and then relays the info back to Ti.

I find [INFJs] them to be a bit overbearing after awhile.

What, do you mean judgmental, self-controlled, intense, rigid, or what exactly?

Most of my friends have been NFPs. Just the way it's happened. . And two of the three were in college (INFJ) and so we just kinda moved apart. The last I had a big blowup with due to some drama she was causing in our bible study group. (making mix CDs for the ENFJs husband, and calling him all the time.... And crying to me that the ENFJ was mean to her.... When all the ENFJ Said was, uh... Why are you calling my husband so much?). I take her as an INFJ sampling error.

Lol. Sounds like the INFJ had her integrity challenged and did not like that. ENFJ was acting fully within her rights as the man's wife to challenge a situation that she thought was inappropriate -- that's what EFJ does. (An ESFJ would likely do the same thing.) IFJ might be more inclined to make sure she was "doing the right thing" and wanting to key off information, and then feeling blindsided/misjudged when she was just doing her job, in her opinion. IFJs seem to brood when misjudged, they hold themselves to high standards but might not articulate what the standard is as well as EFJ.

Anyway, tangent from INFP, so...!

 

[Anew Leaf]

To INTPness: (on my iPad so quoting large walls of text kinda suck)

First, you are lucky VERY lucky that Jennifer thoughtfully provided you with some much needed sacrificial photos.

Second, here I go and please be nice. I will do mah best and hopefully make sense.

Several reasons. Have you ever just been super overwhelmed by an emotion or two or the hundred? Even if it only lasts for a few minutes... If you have then think of having that feeling where you can't control it, you can't contain it, and you have no Ti to fall back to to make the emotional animal behave.

Growing up, for myself, I think I was very Fi a lot. It caused me an enormous amount of pain to show my little feelings on my sleeve. At school I got teased because I was smart. I cried. I got laughed at. I got teased for being good at art. I cried. I got laughed at. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the cause and effects here... So what option did I have? I shut it down, became quiet, and tried not to make any waves. At home when I told my dad what happened he gave me the "life isn't fair speech.". To a little INFP this is like being told Santa, the easter bunny, and the oort cloud don't exist. All in one moment.

In my teenage years we lived in Singapore and that helped give me a fresh start and I started using my Ne more (not that this was conscious at all) and I discovered that with Ne I was funny, fun, and people liked me. Who knew?!

Onward to college I had my first actual boyfriend with an INTJ. I was so excited and emotional and yay! Too much so, so that he decided it was not what he wanted. And he broke up with me on my birthday and spent 3 hours telling me what a horrible person I was and how interesting he found my pain. So another lesson learned: keep the Fi at bay when in a relationship because it sucks when you don't.

Luckily my next few relationships were much better and I did learn how to let the guy know what I was feeling without making it into too much of a big deal.

With my dad, I have been able to show my Fi before because my mom was there to help guide him. Without her he is adrift with zero knowledge of how to speak to me and so he says so many things that hurt me because I am not prepared for it. We are both kind of struggling to redefine the relationship now that is a line instead of a triangle.

Does any of this make sense?

For last night I couldn't speak what I was feeling because it was too much. And speaking a little bit about it is like letting a crack form in a dam... It all has to come out right then and there. And I hate being out of control feeling as if I am some kind of raving lunatic. For one, I know that if I get questioned I won't be able to explain myself, and two, I am quite frankly afraid I am going to say something horrible and unforgivable. I don't want that! So for me, I find it easier to have my emo meltdown alone if needed... Some time to cool down and be analytical again, so that I can then come to someone and say... Look, you really hurt my feelings because of x y z. And we can go from there.

Gifts and not asking.... Guilty as charged.

I think its because I love surprises.... And i love feeling like someone really gets me. Part of this is because my mom spoiled me with her ENFPity with an incredible knack of gift giving. Everyone always felt soo special with her gifts. it's hard to top that with a, I asked and I got, kind of thing.

If it's a small gift then I won't have a problem with asking. If it's something like a car, no way I would ask. It makes me look greedy and materialistic and I should buy that for myself to be independent. (any large ticket item)

And a tiny part of it is in love surprises because they come out of the blue (duh) and don't require me to be anxious or anticipating it. (I also have a secret horror of getting a gift I hate and not being able to hide it.)

Ok, god that was a ramble. I hope I make sense. If you question something go ahead ^_^. I put my Fi away so it's ok.

 

[INTPness]

Ti cannot be negotiated with, it has no interest in compromise. Its only choice is to speak or not speak, but it cannot change the words that come out of its mouth just to cushion a blow. It can only speak what it sees to be true. Otherwise it would be like saying 2+5 = 9, and it would rather not compromise itself by speaking if told it cannot say the truth.

I use Ne naturally to cushion Ti truth ... expressing it more flexible ways, as pokes, jabs, jests, insinuations, allusions, etc. Ne is the explorer that asks "what if?" and "why not?" and then relays the info back to Ti.

Yeah, I relate to this quite a bit. I think Ti and Fi are similar in some regards - they are both introverted functions that are quite comfortable in remaining silent - they don't "have to" speak out. But, they are both very intense and there's a LOT going on under the surface in regards to how strongly they think/feel about an issue. For instance, when people say "Yeah, 2+5=9!" Ti gets kind of pissy. Cuz it's not true. It's an outright lie. Ti has sort of "been violated". Similar with Fi, I believe - when something dear to them has been "violated", when that line has been crossed, Fi isn't a happy camper.