throne of dust
- Dec 3, 2017
- MBTI Type
- Instinctual Variant
OKAY, before I start with everything else I feel like I need to address this since I think there is a huge misunderstanding happening here. My friend is not an asexual. I am the asexual in the friendship and my friend is allo. Me being uncomfortable therefore does not come from the fact they are ace - but me as an ace not being able to understand this feeling of "they are hot, I want to hook up" and they are very open about the fact they sleep with people only for the looks. They once texted with someone they deemed as "crazy" just because they were attractive and planned on just going to bed with them and then leave them. It's not USUALLY what he plans but this outlook makes me really uncomfy. I appreciate you advocating and making sure people get the right idea about asexuality though. I am just afraid you might have used that time on someone already who was already aware :"D. Sorry if I triggered you in any way.
Bolded- no. Actually, I'd tried saying what I did as softly as possible. Figures it still came across harshly enough. Apologies.
Yes, you mentioned you were asexual too, but then again some closested homosexual people can engage in paradoxical bigotry. It happens- was making sure. Don't worry- I understand that you are asexual, though I did misunderstand somewhere up there thinking you perhaps had an asexual friend among the others you had mentioned. I see my explanation was not needed- that's good.
You are ... almost excessively reassuring. What a gentle way to refute what I said yet still be appreciative. I must say it's funny (not in a making fun of way, it's a little endearing). I'd held back my tongue on it, but it's happened several times now I just have to say it. FJ + 9 really is something, huh.
This is interesting as you would think that as a Ne inferior me having less inuitive qualities would be more obvious. Honestly funny enough I always saw myself as an (at least party) intuitive person even though I always knew my Si is pretty strong.
Intuitive- as in, in the MBTI sense, or in the general sense?
I think in my case it tends to be very interesting. I tend to be pretty precise when it comes to explaining my thoughts or relating to people "I think x is y because xy happened in the past" or " I relate to you, because situation z". But in therapy for example I was told very often that it's hard for people to imagine what I am talking about because I am not giving descriptions or details. "I tend to be overemotional" and can't give examples of me being overemotional - or describing overall dynamics between me and others without going into detail. Often I also realise that I tend to overgeneralize, talking about "this person" or "the type of person that". Again, in therapy I was asked once to describe how a person I talk about looks and I was very uncomfortable and didn't even know if I could remember enough of it. Doesn't 100% debunk your explanation, just wanted to throw it there. But I agree in the way that I am not really metaphorical or abstract in my speech. And people even IRL tend to tell me my way of speaking is very exact and to the point (even if I tend to go on tangents).
I don't like going on stereotypes or trends and nothing else, but for what it's worth, Ti influence (with Si) can do this. INTPs can be incredibly verbose and overly precise to a level of pedantry that wears my patience thin (do not worry, you have not).
Bolded- fair. I had considered the possibility that you could have adapted yourself to be this way for any reason (school, work, therapy even, etc). Is why I did mention that I still hadn't noticed Ni, however. Your way of processing- underlined + bolded is also still quite reminiscent (not 100%, but reminiscent) of Si/Ne axis, and if you were -F, it would make it Si-dom Ne inferior.
While still not 100% sure on the 3 wing (I would need to do more research on it) I agree about everything else!
I still have a few questions though (mostly stereotypes I want to get rid of) so maybe you can listen to this and have a statement about it:
- I heard that Si doms usually don't struggle with productivity or having a regulated life. I struggle with both. I NEED schedule and route but suck and maintaining it. I might tell myself to get to a routine, get bored by it after a few weeks or (if it goes really well) months and go back to do whatever. With productivity... usually when I start something new I tend to be super organised and work hard, but after awhile I (without really trying to) do a challenge for myself "how much less can I work for a similar result". So I end up doing rushed work in 30 minutes, stressing myself out, getting anxious and regretting my life choices.
One of my long-term friends is ISFJ, no question, fits through and through, even more strongly than you do (your N/S divide is fuzzy). She is also the most disastrous person I've ever met.
It's the thing about motivation VS skill + circumstances. There are many reasons one is unable to achieve productivity or having a regulated life. It comes down to your circumstances and if you'd acquired the skill to do what you want, AND the opportunity to actually act on it.
You are in therapy. Without knowing more about why, I can't say for certain that bolded is a product of P-style MBTI cognition or simply a symptom of something else. For what it's worth, you could still see as your desire to attain that kind of productivity and regulated life as a sign that underneath whatever is stopping you, you might have a -J temperament- perhaps it is being blocked/thwarted by anxiety, whatever you are going to therapy for, your life circumstances, sheer bad luck- or perhaps that you indeed are a perceiver. I do not know. But something to consider. If you were given free reign- all the time, money you need- what does your ideal life look like? Why do you 'suck' at maintaining a routine and schedule despite wanting it? What causes you to burn out?
- I don't see myself being in tune with reality or the world around me all too much. I don't notice when people are wearing something different, I am not looking what is happening around me when I go somewhere, I tend me need ALOT of time to find something that is right infront of me, I don't care about the things I wear or what other people wear, and 90% of my thoughts are about my interests and what I am gonna do next or some imaginery scenarios (self-inserting into my favorite shows). While I DO constrast with my past alot I don't think I go there 24/7 and it mainly comes up in interactions. Honestly, me not being focused of what needs to be done at the moment or what is happening around me can cause me huge problems. Though I guess alot of this can come down to people describing Si as if it's Se and mixing it up?
- There is more but I can't think of it right now... might write it down in the future.
- Not noticing when someone is wearing something different: a possibility is that it is something you consider irrelevant and do not pay attention to. When you do have to, or better yet, want to pay attention to something, how detail-oriented are you?
- Not looking at what is happening around you: the environment, the people? As in, low situational awareness? This alone could possibly be low/no Se instead of necessarily low Si.
- You don't care about what you wear or what others wear: personal taste rather than cognition. One might even argue that a strong sp/so ISFJ would not care because it wouldn't be practical to be fussy with your clothes or to care about fashion trends, or more likely, that your interests lie elsewhere.
- You have imagination: one of the best / most creative authors I know is ISFJ. I've mentioned that my listed typing is a joke- I'm actually N, but I can't write to save my life. 'Ns are more imaginative' is also one of the bad stereotypes out there- ironic, since it's usually IS-- folks who are called 'The Artists'.
- Contrast with past a lot but not 24/7: neither do IS-Js in general, just like how even Fi-doms aren't always drenched in emotion, T-doms aren't always stone faced, etc. It's a spectrum after all- between N, and S, where do you lie? Just because you are not 100% at S it doesn't mean you are N, it might mean the divide is 40-60 N/S instead. IS-Js do have to be able to forecast the future to be able to be as structured as they are, they just do it differently than IN-Js- and do tend to reference the past more, so the theory goes.
- Your thoughts are mostly about your interests and what you would do next: not telling of N/S, just who you are as a person and your preferences. What would be a greater tell is how you act on it. I assume that this is also representative of your free time- aside from workaholics, I doubt people would spend time thinking about things that aren't involved in their interests, or things that are uninteresting to them. I also doubt that this occurs 24/7- when you are working, say, what thoughts fill your mind? You say you think of "what you would do next"- what does this tend to be, and why?
Funny you are saying this as I often question whether I am a 6 and people on a discord server (that are very well read on enneagram) were convinced a couple times I could be a 6. I think you thinking otherwise might come down to the nature of a forum as it's easy to present myself in a structured way here and make myself more polished. Anxiety is a huge part of my life and is a huge reason why I am still stuck with a life I am unhappy with. Though, fairly enough, I didn't type myself as a 3 fix for very long. And I am definitely seeing more qualities of it than I did before. Maybe I will see even more of it as I go on.
Typology isn't pathology/illness, though. I think people overly conflate anxiety with E6, and while E6s tend to have tendencies that could lend to 'anxious looking' behaviours (their vigilance, alertness- usually), it's not THE anxiety disorder itself. You can have both, but if your point of typing as 6 is 'because you are anxious', that isn't enough. What do you get anxious about? How do you deal with that anxiety? Why does it give you anxiety?
Think of say a 2 who is being taken advantage of. They would be in almost perpetual anxiety. A 4 who cannot realise themselves- anxiety. A 5 thrust into parties way too many times- anxiety. Doesn't mean they've turned into a 6, are 6-fixed, or 6-winged necessarily.
What do you mean when you say "anxiety is a huge part of your life"?
Aside from anxiety, what do you actually relate to about a 6's motivations and how they work?
Why did those folks give you 6? 9 + 3 seemed like a better fit for things I have mentioned. I wonder if your attachment + active tendencies are being misread as 6, because you seem more strongly 9 and 3 than 6- a bit like how 6 + 4 can masquerade as 8 at times, or how 3 + 5 soc can look like 1.
Okay, I mistyped: "It DIDN'T help with my frustration". But yeah, after I got typed as an INFJ by the person I talked you about, I changed my type on a discord server and I went to the corresponding channel to talk to people of the same (or similar type) and have a great time. However, after seeing I changed from an INFP to an INFJ people wanted to know why and instead of trusting my judgement they were starting to type me all over - even if I didn't ask anymore. I think they instantly assumed they would need to help me from being mistyped. Either that, or prove, that I am actually an INFJ. Some people were certain I use Ne over Ni in the way I communicated and was able to "keep up with fast and random Ne speech" and understand it. Also I already knew that apprently most people who are INFJs are mistyped so I instantly doubted my type... again. Also seeing other "real" INFJs made me question my type to, as they were talking about not being understood, and people being shocked about their insights that were obvious them. I couldn't relate to it. After talking to one INFJ in private she said "you just need someone to listen to your ideas and insights" and I instantly thought "I have literally no insights". I felt like I had to fake my speech in order to sound like a "real INFJ" (I talked like I do to you now, just in an actual fast moving chat, it was tiring because I just wanted to have a fun time). I changed my type back to INFP and felt better, because people don't usually question INFPs (though people questioned me having Fi in the past, but not many). After being in another server that was more layed back and talking to the people there in a way that was more fun, I was told by a person "Interesting, I was on that other server with you, and you gave off huge INFJ vibes but now I get huge INFP / Ne vibes from you). I in general feel like whenever I go into "explanation" or "description mode" I talk like this. But whenever I am talking to a person on a friendship-level and am casual (without tension) with them, I send 20 messages, fragmented thoughts, being more "random" too.
If you have to fake it, it's likely you're not it. That being said, what do you mean by "I have literally no insights"- what are 'insights' to you?
About 'being random' and following 'fast and random Ne speech' well; would need to ascertain it's not related to the above- why you're having a hard time being productive and structured- why you're going to the therapist, though this does push for Si/Ne axis more.
What I related to INFJ... hard to pinpoint. I was watching alot of videos about common INFJ experiences (memes but also descriptions), the ways the functions work, the way the type supposedly reacts to things. I related to inferior Se because of me being oblivious about my surroundings, Ni because of me being in my head all the time (and also a Ni descrition I read on a pretty good website). I related to the Ni-Ti loop as I struggle with analysis paralysis regulary. I related to the more "lowkey" manifestation of Fe in INFJs. Observing and guiding people rather than baking cookies (bad ISFJ stereotype... it makes me mad). Also I guess for some odd reason I wanted to be an INFJ - which also made me think I am not one, because "real INFJs don't want to be their type". I think the type is just everything I would like to view myself as. I can't even pinpoint why. Maybe I want to be seen as wise and intelligent, having complex thoughts and just overall being special in a way. For a similar reason I was debating if I could be a thinker (INTP) but I think this also comes down to "I want to be logical and smart, because this is worth so much more in my head than talking to people well... because that is something that is expected either way from you. You don't get a cookie for smiling at others and it's not something I can be proud of with myself". Well... writing it out like that makes me feel like I understand why you go with 3 over 6 all of the sudden
I distrust this, as well as descriptions of INTJs. INTJs and INFJs are paraded around a lot, except people very frequently slap universal traits onto these two types, causing people to very frequently mistype as either. Take the "Door slam"- frequently toted around to be a very INFJ thing to the point people type as it just because they 'door slam' too. INTJs are "slow to trust"- gee, like other types would trust the first stranger they meet? Or being remotely oriented towards the future at all = suddenly Ni-dom. Being in your head is a typical introvert-lead trait, by the way (Si, Ni, Fi, Ti). What you call analysis paralysis happens frequently with Ps as well- the infamous "there are too many options and I don't know how to choose" of the Ps. A problem with these memes as you can see, again, is that they take generic human traits but slap it onto a specific type. What you mentioned above could be almost anything else in the MBTI system- or even anxiety.
You consistently at least have demonstrated that you value 'e'-style judgement, and since you are F, F + e = Fe. Your Fe is strong enough (with very little to no indication of Fi) + being an introvert = IXFJ, + more Si than Ni + Ne over Ni = ISFJ. The cognition fits, despite you not fitting the 'stereotype' of ISFJ, then again not everybody fits the stereotype of their own type (and one would hope so).
"I think the type is just everything I would like to view myself as. I can't even pinpoint why."
It may help to try flesh this out regardless. What traits seem the most desirable to you in the INFJ, that you feel like you lack and wish you had, stereotypes included? Understanding why you typed as INFJ to begin with at all, even if it may be a mistype, might help shed more light into why this confusion is happening at all.