[INFP] (patiently) ask an INFP!!1

[Rasofy]

Great posts, Fineline.

 

[Southern Kross]

Bump!

Hey INFPs I have a question, and it might be too vague to answer, and I apologize for that in advance.

I have a few INFP friends -- though not many -- and I've never really gotten close with any of them. Here's what has almost always happened: they open up to me (a lot!), I listen patiently and gradually define my friendship with them as more of an older- and younger-sibling relationship (not on equal terms), and then when I finally decide to open up to them (just a little!), they get awkward, so I never open up to them again, and they never bring up the exchange again, and it's as if I never opened up to them in the first place. I'm posting here because I have no idea what that's all about!

It's happened both irl and on the forum, with INFPs. I'll open up in the typical ESTJ style of making oneself vulnerable (i.e. explaining feelings in a very straightforward and deliberate style, 99% devoid of a sense of humor). I'm guessing that it comes across as intense because they're so used to thinking of me as oh so confident, so together, the level-headed one, the one who is so organized when they're so Ne-style disorganized, etc -- and they don't stop to think that maybe there's more to me than that.

But what I don't understand is: wouldn't INFPs know better than anyone, what to look for in a slow-but-sure Fi reveal? If the INFPs in my life are Fours (and I know a few of them are), wouldn't they know better than anyone that Everyone Has Their Eccentricities That They Hide From Most People Because Most People Don't Understand? :uni:

Even the ENFPs I've met have been more understanding when I open up (in general), because at the very least they give the "I've been in a similar situation" Fi-comfort response... whereas what I've mostly gotten from INFPs has been "... oh." or "... ahahaha... um..." or "really??" <-- That one really killed me. That was when I was actually showing Fi to them, i.e. showing them a value of mine that I don't consider to be very rational, but that I hold anyway, against my will.* You'd think of all people, an Fi would know not to do that?

So, like I said, this question is vague and confusing, because it might not just be with INFPs (and might be with other types too), it might be more to do with ESTJ-ness than INFP-ness, and it could have more to do with maturity than the Myers-Briggs. It could also be the Enneagram? though I'm not sure about that either. I'm confused enough about the issue that I can't narrow it down without input -- and INFP input would be perfect.

Thoughts?


*ESTJ fact no. 16745: Ambiguity scares us. Values are inherently ambiguous. No matter how dogmatic an ESTJ is, it is guaranteed that, deep inside, they all share that same fear. But we have to live by our values, even though we know they're full of holes and impossible to argue rationally. So if we show our Fi, it's either in a very controlled environment where we know we'll be beyond criticism, or it's in an Fi explosion as a result of a continuous stress/anger buildup.

They probably understood what you were talking about and are sympathetic. One thing we aren't good at is saying the right thing, in the right way, at the right time. Sometimes we feel so much and it's impossible to convey it well. If what you said is very revealling (or intense, as you said) it can take a few moments for us to get past the tense awkwardness and/or mental overload. It isn't likely a negative reaction to what you said, but more the difficulty in conveying sympathy, acceptance and understanding.

Additionally, if you didn't give clear questions or imply you wanted their comments, maybe they thought that patient listening is what you looking for - and we always err on the side of caution with emotional issues. Maybe they wanted to show their complete acceptance of the matter by making it a non-issue (ie. show it's no big deal and it doesn't alter their positive view of you). I also imagine the reason they don't bring it up is because they consider it rude or insensitive to pry and prod you over something so personal. Perhaps they also think, you being an extrovert and a straight forward communicator, that if you wanted to talk about it you simply would, so they are waiting until you bring it up.

Basically you have to imagine in their squirming silence, them desperately thinking in circles and scrambling to be as accommodating and non-judgemental as they possibly can (and messing up). I bet they've thought a great deal about it since then too - I certainly reflect on moments when my friends open up long afterwards but often don't know how to broach the subject or show my heartfelt sympathy. Maturity does tend to make us better at communicating but even then we can be a bit useless.

It's sad they didn't give you the support you needed but don't assume they were judging you - assume they're panic-stricken about how to be supportive or simply socially inept, well before you consider venturing down that path.

In all seriousness, what is the best way to tell an INFP 'no' without hurting their feelings or causing them to push the issue even further?

A short, courteous but clear-cut explanation is fine. Drawing it out, being ambiguous or getting too personal about why you're rejecting them, are bad ideas.

 

[RDF]

Great posts, Fineline.

Thanks!

[...]It's sad they didn't give you the support you needed but don't assume they were judging you - assume we're panic-stricken about how to be supportive or simply social inept, well before you consider venturing down that path.

Good point, well-expressed.

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=204]FineLine[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION]:

This makes a lot of sense. The (unofficial) rule I had made for myself before then had been: they'll react well if they care, and if they don't care or aren't comfortable with you opening up, then they won't react well. I had been projecting, I guess, since the main reasons why I've ever been uncomfortable with someone opening up, have been if I didn't know then very well and weren't close enough friends with them to really care or invest myself in their problems/issues. (Edit: I guess that isn't entirely true -- but I always do or say something when they open up, even if what I say isn't terribly well-phrased.) So when I know someone really well and they've opened up to me a lot, and then they respond poorly when I open up, my (mental) gut reaction had been: "They must have just wanted to use me as their own personal therapist. Screw them." But based on what you're saying, this was entirely a misunderstanding, and they probably do care? My question is: Since I obviously don't have a natural talent for reading people, how can I tell the difference between an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're thinking "This person is opening up to me and I don't want them to be, why can't they leave me alone", and an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're feeling too many feelings to be able to express them in a way that is approved by their picky Fi?

 

[Anew Leaf]

YAY!!! [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] for reopening ze thread!

I am going to think on the things in your original post and see if I have anything new to add. Both [MENTION=204]FineLine[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] did an above the board amazing job in replying to you already.

[MENTION=204]FineLine[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION]:

This makes a lot of sense. The (unofficial) rule I had made for myself before then had been: they'll react well if they care, and if they don't care or aren't comfortable with you opening up, then they won't react well. I had been projecting, I guess, since the main reasons why I've ever been uncomfortable with someone opening up, have been if I didn't know then very well and weren't close enough friends with them to really care or invest myself in their problems/issues. So when I know someone really well and they've opened up to me a lot, and then they respond poorly when I open up, my (mental) gut reaction had been: "They must have just wanted to use me as their own personal therapist. Screw them." But based on what you're saying, this was entirely a misunderstanding, and they probably do care? My question is: Since I obviously don't have a natural talent for reading people, how can I tell the difference between an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're thinking "This person is opening up to me and I don't want them to be, why can't they leave me alone", and an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're feeling too many feelings to be able to express them in a way that is approved by their picky Fi?

@Bold: I definitely think these things myself when I am confiding in others.

Talking with you is always awesome because it's like seeing myself in a Funhouse Mirror.

In regards to your question posed in this post.... I think that you are just going to have to take a few leap of faiths here. If you have managed to get to a point with anyone where they are sharing info with you and you feel comfortable enough to share info with them... Then you just have to trust and have faith that they have good intentions towards you. If you actually see actions being done that say otherwise, then those can be pinpointed on a case by case basis. However, I would think that they would be rare.

From what Southern Kross said:

They probably understood what you were talking about and are sympathetic. One thing we aren't good at is saying the right thing, in the right way, at the right time. Sometimes we feel so much and it's impossible to convey it well. If what you said is very revealling (or intense, as you said) it can take a few moments for us to get past the tense awkwardness and/or mental overload. It isn't likely a negative reaction to what you said, but more the difficulty in conveying sympathy, acceptance and understanding.

I can relate to this very very much when I was much younger. Now that I am older, it gets easier knowing what to say.

Part of my desire is that I want to say the most perfect, exact right thing possible to someone to achieve maximum results. I have easier luck when I can write out my thoughts but I am getting better at saying stuff through sheer will power and practice. And this is where my age and years of experience end up shining through. When I was your age, EJCC, I was pretty clumsy on the spot with confessions. It has never helped that throughout my entire life, I get people who meet me and minutes or hours later, start spilling their guts. I always felt so on the spot and YIKES I DONT KNOW THIS PERSON!!! etc. Strangely enough, learning to become more Te and organized and unafraid to just call a spade a spade has made my Fi-ness much more effective.

Keep opening up though. It gets easier with practice. And if something bad happens from opening up... you know what? Just get back on that horse and do it again with someone else.

 

[Riva]

I skipped the whole thread. So apologies in advance if the question is repeated.

Dependability?

INFPs and dependability? An INFP would almost always empathize and emotionally be there for someone. But when it comes to actually helping others INFPs seem to fall short.

Is this 'my' bad experience? Or do you (INFPs) indeed find yourself 'unable' to help others when needed?

 

[011235813]

I skipped the whole thread. So apologies in advance if the question is repeated.

Dependability?

INFPs and dependability? An INFP would almost always empathize and emotionally be there for someone. But when it comes to actually helping others INFPs seem to fall short.

Is this 'my' bad experience? Or do you (INFPs) indeed find yourself 'unable' to help others when needed?

Might be just your experience. I certainly don't leave others to their own devices when they're struggling and I can make things easier. I do think empathy and emotional support are also forms of help, which your post doesn't seem to acknowledge, but I'm also capable of giving help in more tangible ways, so ...

 

[RDF]

I skipped the whole thread. So apologies in advance if the question is repeated.

Dependability?

INFPs and dependability? An INFP would almost always empathize and emotionally be there for someone. But when it comes to actually helping others INFPs seem to fall short.

Is this 'my' bad experience? Or do you (INFPs) indeed find yourself 'unable' to help others when needed?

INFPs love to play the white knight and rescue people, so they have a natural bias toward “being there” for people. You acknowledge this with your comments about empathy and emotional support. But when it comes to the specific quality of "dependability," I have to say as an INFP myself that I’ve seen some INFPs who are extremely dependable; and I’ve seen other INFPs are ferocious flakes when it comes to following up on any kind of obligation or commitment.

It depends on how and where the individual INFP ranks the quality of “dependability” in his/her internal Fi value rankings. Some INFPs rank it highly, and they go to great extremes to follow up on any commitment they’ve made, no matter how minor; they can feel quite guilty if they aren’t able to deliver 110 percent of what they promised.

Other INFPs simply don’t find it all that important to be ruled by conventional notions of dependability. They may feel that it’s more important to be a “free spirit.” Ne enthusiasm may make it easy and fun to commit to the pet projects of other people early along; and then Ne flexibility and temporizing may make it easy to procrastinate and then simply not show up when it’s time to deliver on a commitment.

And even as these latter kinds of INFPs flake out on commitments, they may consider themselves excellent friends. They may feel that they bring much to the relationship in other ways; and the quality of “dependability” is simply so low in their prioritization of values that it’s pretty much just a blind spot for them. They may simply not register how much or how badly they are flaking out on obligations and commitments as measured by conventional outer world expectations. They may insist that you measure their contribution to the friendship by the big-picture totality of what they contribute, and not by counting how many times they broke promises to show up at your parties or whatever.

If you want someone who is going to be dependable in terms of conventional outer world expectations, then look for an Fe- or Te-user. They are attuned to the expectations of society and they tend to set their personal priorities accordingly. Fi and Ti are more of a crap shoot. They may acknowledge external expectations; or they may take pride in playing the “free spirit” or the “mad scientist” or whatever and being deliberately disdainful of those same expectations. Or any point in between.

“Dependability” is going to be a toss-up when it comes to users of Fi and Ti. But they can be trained to put more emphasis on that value, at least with respect to particularly important commitments. You can sit them down and say, “Hey look, this commitment is really important to me. I’m counting on you to be there...” At least with INFPs, Ne provides for some flex there. And since INFPs like to be the white knight, upping the stakes may cause even the flakiest INFP to come through for you when you really need them.

 

[RDF]

[MENTION=204]FineLine[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION]:

This makes a lot of sense. The (unofficial) rule I had made for myself before then had been: they'll react well if they care, and if they don't care or aren't comfortable with you opening up, then they won't react well. I had been projecting, I guess, since the main reasons why I've ever been uncomfortable with someone opening up, have been if I didn't know then very well and weren't close enough friends with them to really care or invest myself in their problems/issues. (Edit: I guess that isn't entirely true -- but I always do or say something when they open up, even if what I say isn't terribly well-phrased.) So when I know someone really well and they've opened up to me a lot, and then they respond poorly when I open up, my (mental) gut reaction had been: "They must have just wanted to use me as their own personal therapist. Screw them." But based on what you're saying, this was entirely a misunderstanding, and they probably do care? My question is: Since I obviously don't have a natural talent for reading people, how can I tell the difference between an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're thinking "This person is opening up to me and I don't want them to be, why can't they leave me alone", and an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're feeling too many feelings to be able to express them in a way that is approved by their picky Fi?

Basically, the broad rule is that you’re not supposed to make assumptions as to the motivations of other people, especially when it comes to one-off events. As you noted, the danger is that you end up projecting your own baggage onto them.

If someone behaves in an awkward or unexpected manner in a given situation or interaction, then you’re supposed to sit them down and directly ask them why they did what they did. If the transgression was minor, you may choose to wait and repeat the experience a couple times to give them a few opportunities to come through for you, and then have “the talk” with them after they have failed you repeatedly. If the transgression was major, on the other hand, you may want to have “the talk” immediately after the very first transgression.

Also note my response to Riva concerning the issue of “dependability.” There is often a big disconnect between Fe/Te users and Fi/Ti users on how to prioritize certain “social” qualities like dependability, courtesy, reciprocity, or whatever. Again, this is a big reason to sit down and have “the talk” with them. Did they simply misunderstand what was required of them? Did they freak out and blank out? Or did they honestly feel that what you expected of them wasn’t important (according to their particular ranking of emotional values or logical principles)?

A good talk may save a lot of time, clear the air, and prompt them to realize that something they consider a minor inconvenience is in fact a very high priority for you.

 

[EJCC]

YAY!!! EJCC for reopening ze thread!

No problem!

@Bold: I definitely think these things myself when I am confiding in others.

Talking with you is always awesome because it's like seeing myself in a Funhouse Mirror.

I often feel the same way about you -- though not all the time, because you have significantly more Fun And Silly Posts than I do. I feel the same way about this quote of yours:

Part of my desire is that I want to say the most perfect, exact right thing possible to someone to achieve maximum results. I have easier luck when I can write out my thoughts but I am getting better at saying stuff through sheer will power and practice.

This is almost exactly why I sometimes feel awkward when people open up to me -- but, like you, I've gotten better. And it helps that I've realized that usually, my Fe friends just want a hug or a "there, there", so I can just hug them and make comforting noises and I don't need to say the perfect thing.

When I was a kid and I had to apologize to someone, I would always write out a letter and hand it to them silently and walk away because firstly, I didn't think I'd say it as well in person, and secondly, they might try to shut me up if I said it to them, and I wanted to guarantee that all my thoughts got out there.

When I was your age, EJCC, I was pretty clumsy on the spot with confessions. It has never helped that throughout my entire life, I get people who meet me and minutes or hours later, start spilling their guts. I always felt so on the spot and YIKES I DONT KNOW THIS PERSON!!! etc. Strangely enough, learning to become more Te and organized and unafraid to just call a spade a spade has made my Fi-ness much more effective.

Yay! This is what I do when my close friends open up to me. I let the firm but comforting hand of Te rest on their shoulder and then lift them up.

In regards to your question posed in this post.... I think that you are just going to have to take a few leap of faiths here. If you have managed to get to a point with anyone where they are sharing info with you and you feel comfortable enough to share info with them... Then you just have to trust and have faith that they have good intentions towards you. If you actually see actions being done that say otherwise, then those can be pinpointed on a case by case basis. However, I would think that they would be rare.

Keep opening up though. It gets easier with practice. And if something bad happens from opening up... you know what? Just get back on that horse and do it again with someone else.

Thanks.

I must be scarred from my Fe doorslam experiences -- and from being close friends with so freaking many INFJs -- because when friends don't respond when I say something that I'm not terribly secure about, I start trying to figure out what they're thinking because I'm so used to non-confrontational INFJs who will just let that resentment build and build and build. It's hard to know how to avoid that when you aren't an Fe type. :/

...I’ve seen other INFPs are ferocious flakes when it comes to following up on any kind of obligation or commitment.

It depends on how and where the individual INFP ranks the quality of “dependability” in his/her internal Fi value rankings. Some INFPs rank it highly, and they go to great extremes to follow up on any commitment they’ve made, no matter how minor; they can feel quite guilty if they aren’t able to deliver 110 percent of what they promised.

Other INFPs simply don’t find it all that important to be ruled by conventional notions of dependability. They may feel that it’s more important to be a “free spirit.” Ne enthusiasm may make it easy and fun to commit to the pet projects of other people early along; and then Ne flexibility and temporizing may make it easy to procrastinate and then simply not show up when it’s time to deliver on a commitment.

And even as these latter kinds of INFPs flake out on commitments, they may consider themselves excellent friends. They may feel that they bring much to the relationship in other ways; and the quality of “dependability” is simply so low in their prioritization of values that it’s pretty much just a blind spot for them. They may simply not register how much or how badly they are flaking out on obligations and commitments as measured by conventional outer world expectations. They may insist that you measure their contribution to the friendship by the big-picture totality of what they contribute, and not by counting how many times they broke promises to show up at your parties or whatever.

If you want someone who is going to be dependable in terms of conventional outer world expectations, then look for an Fe- or Te-user. They are attuned to the expectations of society and they tend to set their personal priorities accordingly. Fi and Ti are more of a crap shoot. They may acknowledge external expectations; or they may take pride in playing the “free spirit” or the “mad scientist” or whatever and being deliberately disdainful of those same expectations. Or any point in between.

“Dependability” is going to be a toss-up when it comes to users of Fi and Ti. But they can be trained to put more emphasis on that value, at least with respect to particularly important commitments. You can sit them down and say, “Hey look, this commitment is really important to me. I’m counting on you to be there...” At least with INFPs, Ne provides for some flex there. And since INFPs like to be the white knight, upping the stakes may cause even the flakiest INFP to come through for you when you really need them.

This was very helpful. The posts I've made on this thread in the past several pages have all been about the more "free-spirited" INFPs that you described here. I've tried being non-confrontational with them about it, i.e. not bringing it up, because

1) The INFPs I know are very sensitive, and I can never predict when their Fi will explode at me... and when their Fi does explode, and then they seem fine the next day, I worry that they aren't actually fine, but will build up resentment about me that will suddenly all explode and lead to an NF doorslam. (This worry comes from having experienced this with a former friend, and from not knowing how to read people well enough to predict that sort of thing in advance.)

2) When I most want to bring it up, I'm the most angry, so in the times I have brought it up, I've been unable to suppress my anger enough to not be snippy, so I end up saying things like "It's okay, but next time, could you tell me when you're going to stand me up and eat lunch somewhere else?" (It's because dependability is very, very high on my Fi list (i.e. in my top five).)

So I have a hard time knowing what I should say to them. Your suggestion about what to say in advance of a commitment was very, very good (thank you! I will use it from now on), but I have no idea what I would say if I was having The Talk (as suggested in your other post) with an INFP after they had flaked out on something important.

Also: I find the bolded very interesting, and maybe not correct for me? Because I've never thought of my priorities/values as being societal. I just feel like, when I put a lot of time and effort into doing something for/with someone because I care about them (e.g. setting aside time in my busy schedule to have lunch with them, or help them with something), it hurts when they seem to disregard that. It makes me wonder if an INFP wouldn't be offended, if they put a lot of time and effort into something only for their close friends to ignore it or flake out with a vague excuse. I guess my feelings on that could be societal, in that I wouldn't have those expectations if they hadn't been enforced in me somewhere. But I dunno.

 

[RDF]

... I have no idea what I would say if I was having The Talk (as suggested in your other post) with an INFP after they had flaked out on something important.

Yeah, if you start out The Talk with a snippy or hurt attitude, you might easily get the same in return. Your INFPs might get defensive or they might feel they are being pressured in ways that go against their Fi “free spirit” ethic.

So this would be a good time to use a little anger management. For example, start by enumerating all the ways that you appreciate what your INFP friends bring to the friendship. If done well, it will put the problem in proper perspective. For example, “We have a strong friendship that I treasure greatly. There is just one small area where we seem to be misunderstanding each other....”

Another option over the long-term is to let your INFP friends be free spirits and simply adjust for it. These days I tend to figure that everyone comes to the table with an agenda, including me. And if I’m honest and up-front about my own agenda, then I needn’t resent the agendas of others or the fact that they don’t neatly dovetail with mine.

For example, let's say I’m preparing a dinner party. I look at the guest list and determine the “agendas” of everyone there. Then I figure out my own “agenda” for each:

Person A’s agenda is to be a good guest. She helps with set-up and take-down, and she socializes well. My agenda with respect to Person A: I wish I had a hundred more like her. Result: She gets star billing.

Person B’s agenda is to get drunk and loud and obnoxious as quickly as possible. My agenda: I don’t want him at the dinner portion of the party, but I don’t mind if the party gets loud afterward. Result: I’ll tell him that I don’t have enough seats at the dinner portion of the party, but he should come over right after dinner for dessert and drinks and bring along a couple bottles of wine and five of his drinking buddies. He’ll love it.

Person C’s agenda is to be mousey and sit in a corner quietly and not talk to anyone. My agenda: But she makes a fantastic beef stroganoff and I need her to cook that as the entree. Result: She gets star billing.

Person D’s agenda is to be a total bore and a fop. My agenda: But he loves to dance. Put on some music, clear some floor space, and he’ll grab a partner and kick off the dancing instantly. Result: He gets star billing.

Person E’s agenda is to be an artistic free spirit. She brings a certain atmosphere and cachet; but she accepts my invites and then never shows up half the time. My agenda: I pretty much need confirmed attendees for the early dinner party. Result: She can’t attend the dinner party. But I can invite her to come for dessert and drinks afterward; if she skips the party at that point, it won’t be as big a problem.

And so on. The point: Appreciate everyone for what they bring to the table, and make allowance for what they don’t. They have their agendas and you have an agenda of your own. Don’t get worked up about it. Try to get the various agendas to dovetail, and don’t get resentful when they aren’t a great fit.

Also: I find the bolded very interesting, and maybe not correct for me? Because I've never thought of my priorities/values as being societal. I just feel like, when I put a lot of time and effort into doing something for/with someone because I care about them (e.g. setting aside time in my busy schedule to have lunch with them, or help them with something), it hurts when they seem to disregard that. It makes me wonder if an INFP wouldn't be offended, if they put a lot of time and effort into something only for their close friends to ignore it or flake out with a vague excuse. I guess my feelings on that could be societal, in that I wouldn't have those expectations if they hadn't been enforced in me somewhere. But I dunno.

My rule of thumb is that:
1) Fi/Ti = “Dependability is an important value/principle for me. So I should be dependable.”
2) Fe/Te = “Dependability is an important value/principle for me. So everyone should be as dependable as me, or society will just fall apart.”

 

[Anew Leaf]

I skipped the whole thread. So apologies in advance if the question is repeated.

Dependability?

INFPs and dependability? An INFP would almost always empathize and emotionally be there for someone. But when it comes to actually helping others INFPs seem to fall short.

Is this 'my' bad experience? Or do you (INFPs) indeed find yourself 'unable' to help others when needed?

I think this can be quite prevalent.

Some of it could be explained by instinct stacking differences and enneagram.

Speaking for myself... I know that I love doing things for people and helping them out so long as this desire springs solely from the pool of my idea. Once it becomes an expectation and obligation, I often shut down or distance myself or do the opposite. I was a very annoying child.

Growing older now, I have made it a point to work on this and try to be better about my promises and availability. My resentment doesn't build as much as I used to. I consider it a perspective shift wherein I modified how my Venn Diagram of inner core values is placed and now helping others is a higher priority and bubble than it was before.

 

[Southern Kross]

My question is: Since I obviously don't have a natural talent for reading people, how can I tell the difference between an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're thinking "This person is opening up to me and I don't want them to be, why can't they leave me alone", and an INFP who is responding awkwardly because they're feeling too many feelings to be able to express them in a way that is approved by their picky Fi?

I only really respond with the first when they're a stranger or I don't know them well. It's funny that Saturned mentioned this too:

It has never helped that throughout my entire life, I get people who meet me and minutes or hours later, start spilling their guts. I always felt so on the spot and YIKES I DONT KNOW THIS PERSON!!! etc.

You would be surprised how often strangers will open up to me (and it seems, to all INFPs). I have the exact same reaction as above, I'm very unnerved and I'm looking for the exit. But if I know someone, I don't usually react that way, especially if I like them and/or care about them.

Strangely enough, learning to become more Te and organized and unafraid to just call a spade a spade has made my Fi-ness much more effective.

Yeah, Te development is very helpful for INFP maturity. It makes us stronger, more stable, and more capable of expressing dissatisfaction and standing up for ourselves.

1) The INFPs I know are very sensitive, and I can never predict when their Fi will explode at me... and when their Fi does explode, and then they seem fine the next day, I worry that they aren't actually fine, but will build up resentment about me that will suddenly all explode and lead to an NF doorslam. (This worry comes from having experienced this with a former friend, and from not knowing how to read people well enough to predict that sort of thing in advance.)

I think it's hard for outsiders to predict what will make a INFP go off. We let feelings build up inside until a tipping point is reached and then unleash. You're right about seeming fine the next day - I usually am embarrassed and completely over the whole thing (unless the issue is serious or the other person is/would be unapologetic). I just want to put such things behind me. This is the main reason I don't like blowing up in the first place, is the anger is merely a (silly) passing feeling and because I don't like feeling like a fool for losing it.

The best thing to do is, when the INFP is calm (ie. hours later or the next day), ask her to explain why she reacted the way she did, in a non-accusatory fashion. Explain that you don't understand and that you want to better. Even if you don't get an in-depth answer, you will at least be a little reassured that it wasn't only about you.

2) When I most want to bring it up, I'm the most angry, so in the times I have brought it up, I've been unable to suppress my anger enough to not be snippy, so I end up saying things like "It's okay, but next time, could you tell me when you're going to stand me up and eat lunch somewhere else?" (It's because dependability is very, very high on my Fi list (i.e. in my top five).)

I think basically that appealing to their Fi is useful. It's true that "dependability" isn't a very meaningful value to INFPs, however if you rephrase the term or look at the underlying root issues, it will have more of an impact on us. If you think about it, the word is really about: respect for others, trust, responsibility, not constantly indulging in your selfish needs/desires, being there for others, avoiding behaviour that is erratic, burdensome or difficult etc - and these sorts of values make INFPs sit up and pay attention.

I have a ISFP friend that I was helping with her thesis a few years back. I was committing a lot of my time and energy, but in spite of this she always showed up late to our meetings. She always had a huge list of excuses and was very apologetic but it started to get very irritating - one time I lost it because she was over an hour late. She was also the sort of person whom you would make plans with and she would back out at the last minute because she was bogged down with completely foreseeable problems (eg. finishing an assignment she had know about for weeks). Eventually I had a talk with her and explained how disrespectful her behaviour is. Her repeated lateness says, indirectly, that her time is more valuable than mine; that I'm less important than the silly distractions that stopped her from showing up on time; and that it's perfectly acceptable that I sit around at her beck and call. Also if she makes plans to spend time with someone, she should attempt to work her obligations into that time frame and compensate for the time (or money/effort/whatever) lost. Failure to do so indicates that to her it's preferable to ditch/disappoint her friend and miss out on spending time with her, than to make the effort to organise herself ahead of time. Explaining these things to her had much more of an effect than, "Could you show up on time for once?" or the like.

I think the same thing works on INFPs. Sometimes you just have to put their mistakes and failures in perspective for them, reframing it in their language, and then they'll understand why it was wrong and why they should try harder.

 

[raindancing]

Speaking for myself... I know that I love doing things for people and helping them out so long as this desire springs solely from the pool of my idea. Once it becomes an expectation and obligation, I often shut down or distance myself or do the opposite. I was a very annoying child.

I really struggle with this... even if I really feel like I should do it, I can hardly barely bring myself to if it feels like an expectation. Often it's like my entire brain rebels and wont' let me. I will completely forget, then when laying in bed I can't fall asleep because I suddenly remember this thing. Waves of dread. Promise myself I'll address it or do it or whatever, tomorrow. Tomorrow comes, it doesn't even enter my mind until I lay in bed again. Repeat cycle. It feels like self-sabotage. (Because of course if I really wanted I know I could remember)

But I love doing stuff for people that I think of. So really, I am a nice person --on my terms.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I really struggle with this... even if I really feel like I should do it, I can hardly barely bring myself to if it feels like an expectation. Often it's like my entire brain rebels and wont' let me. I will completely forget, then when laying in bed I can't fall asleep because I suddenly remember this thing. Waves of dread. Promise myself I'll address it or do it or whatever, tomorrow. Tomorrow comes, it doesn't even enter my mind until I lay in bed again. Repeat cycle. It feels like self-sabotage. (Because of course if I really wanted I know I could remember)

But I love doing stuff for people that I think of. So really, I am a nice person --on my terms.

@bold, BINGO.

 

[EJCC]

Argh! I had this huge post all typed out and then it deleted itself. So I'll try to be fast and not use quotes:

[MENTION=2885]raindancing[/MENTION], your example really rings true for me, which I find interesting, since -- as [MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION] would say -- I'm like your reflection in a funhouse mirror. I had a huge fight with one of my friends a while back, and I was convinced that I was 100% in the right, but I came to realize that I was going to have to be the one who made the first move, if we were going to be friends again -- meaning, I'd have to apologize insincerely to her. I followed the cycle described in your post for at least two months (during which she and I gave each other the silent treatment), before I finally apologized.

[MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] and [MENTION=204]FineLine[/MENTION], you guys give very, very good advice that I definitely need to follow. FineLine, your delegating example is very good, and before you posted that, I thought I was good at delegating, but obviously I have a lot to learn. Southern Kross, I'm glad you brought up ISFPs as being similar in these sorts of regards because I just remembered that I had an ESFP friend who I could easily lump in with my INFP friends in terms of responding awkwardly when I open up. I wonder if it's a maturity issue on the part of those SFPs/NFPs, because none of the people I used as examples are older than 21, and none of them are more mature than their age would suggest, and also because you and FineLine and Saturned are older and have all moved past the phase in their life when they would react that way to people. (Also, I have a very mature ENFP friend who is great to open up to.)

Now, I suppose, I have two concerns:

1) Implementing the changes suggested, regarding how to treat Perceivers when they flake out on important things. This will be hard for me because I'll have to control my anger when it really, really wants to be let out; holding in anger is easier for me when I feel like it's not justified, but when I have a very good reason to be angry, my willpower starts to wane.

2) Adjusting my attitude towards the SFPs/NFPs who react awkwardly to me when I open up. This will be hard for me because I feel very hurt when they do that, and my instinct when that happens is similar to that of a kid who touches a hot stove element: Don't do that again! Maybe it's because I'm sp-dom, or Fi-inferior, but I'm having a difficult time making myself believe that it would be worth it, with my less mature FP friends, to open up to them ever again, until I'm fairly certain that they would know how to react. I keep thinking, EJCC, you have other friends who would react better than that (like your ENFP friend!), and maybe you should talk to them instead. You don't want anyone to poke and prod at your raw wound -- you want someone to help you sew it up.

 

[Southern Kross]

Now, I suppose, I have two concerns:

1) Implementing the changes suggested, regarding how to treat Perceivers when they flake out on important things. This will be hard for me because I'll have to control my anger when it really, really wants to be let out; holding in anger is easier for me when I feel like it's not justified, but when I have a very good reason to be angry, my willpower starts to wane.

2) Adjusting my attitude towards the SFPs/NFPs who react awkwardly to me when I open up. This will be hard for me because I feel very hurt when they do that, and my instinct when that happens is similar to that of a kid who touches a hot stove element: Don't do that again! Maybe it's because I'm sp-dom, or Fi-inferior, but I'm having a difficult time making myself believe that it would be worth it, with my less mature FP friends, to open up to them ever again, until I'm fairly certain that they would know how to react. I keep thinking, EJCC, you have other friends who would react better than that (like your ENFP friend!), and maybe you should talk to them instead. You don't want anyone to poke and prod at your raw wound -- you want someone to help you sew it up.

If it makes you feel better those two concerns (ie 1. don't lose your temper because it's unproductive; 2. don't freak out and get all paranoid about what others are thinking about you) are very familiar to me. I have to spend a lot of time working on those myself.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Dear INFPs,

Do you overanalyze situations to death?

<3 One of You

 

[raindancing]

Dear INFPs,

Do you overanalyze situations to death?

<3 One of You

No time for in depth response, but in a word: YES (and beyond)

 

[CreativeCait]

Dear INFPs,

Do you overanalyze situations to death?

<3 One of You

YES! It's almost like a process I have to go through, unwillingly even. I pick everything apart untill its meaningless and I've been through the whole gammut of scenarios, feelings and reactions and then re-construct it with whatever 'fits'. Geez, sometimes I frustrate myself

Oh, and I often cocoon during this period and get frustrated when other people/things impinge on my analysing