[NF] NFs, do you relate to idealism? (Poll included)

[/DG/]

I dunno, maybe it's a dumb question...but NFs are called "idealists" after all. Wondering how many of you actually are idealists.

 

[Firebird 8118]

Yep... so much so, that it exasperates even my best friend (and he's also an INFP, funny enough )

 

[Amargith]

Yep. And I also find that as I get older, I no longer am ashamed of that trait - on the contrary. I've been known to call people who aren't idealistic, who used to call me naive for suggesting those ideals, for suggesting change, naive myself. Those who just blatantly accept where we are now, that this is the way the world works - yes, the people who are most likely to mock you for being an idealist. They're naive in their limited vision and their willingness to accept that the world is still in some parts a shitty place, and in that they cannot fathom it working differently.

Have some goddamn ideals and act on them purposefully and intelligently. For that matter, stop being so lazy (or afraid of change), while hiding behind the word 'realism'

 

[Sinmara]

I believe the concept of idealism applies much more strongly to NFPs than to NFJs, if it applies to NFJs at all. I do not have big hopes and dreams, or hold a belief of the way the world should be, and try to affect change to see my ideals realized. I see the world for what it is and I work with what I have presented to me to get the most out of it in a way that I feel is practical. I hold a lot of opinions have principle beliefs about life that are very contrary to mainstream culture, but I don't think that makes me an idealist because they are opinions and beliefs that I only apply to myself. I just want to live the way I live and be left alone to do it.

 

[Gawain]

Yes, and I've never understood why some consider it to be negative. Realistically, the world continues to change through our efforts. So why not be an idealist and hope and work toward a better change instead of an equal or worse one?

 

[five sounds]

Yes. I keep waiting to grow out of it, but I haven't yet. If anything they've gotten stronger and better developed.

 

[Forever]

On my side, I think NFJ's can be incredibly idealistic. It can appear sometimes if we don't know what to do in life where we can feel like there is no point to idealism. After taking philosophy and me being in a religion, it starts to really form in your head how society should act. Now I am in no way a 1 in enneagram but I have quite a few ideals, idk if it's on everything but I can only imagine more so the older and more knowledgeable I get.

 

[/DG/]

I believe the concept of idealism applies much more strongly to NFPs than to NFJs, if it applies to NFJs at all. I do not have big hopes and dreams, or hold a belief of the way the world should be, and try to affect change to see my ideals realized. I see the world for what it is and I work with what I have presented to me to get the most out of it in a way that I feel is practical. I hold a lot of opinions have principle beliefs about life that are very contrary to mainstream culture, but I don't think that makes me an idealist because they are opinions and beliefs that I only apply to myself. I just want to live the way I live and be left alone to do it.

Interesting. I wonder what the other NFJs think. So far we have only two NFJ opinions in this thread. Also interesting that you are the only NF so far who does not identify with idealism.

 

[entropie]

I tend to relate more to existentialism, cause its a better way to keep your emotions on a level where normal people still can cope with you. Everytime I get idealistic it ends up bad for others

 

[Lady Lazarus]

In my own limited way, I do...And I think that's one reason why I tend to get INFP as a gut reaction from most people (who are greatly overestimating my idealism), but the NF idealism seems more self-transcending to me than what I have.

I am not a beautiful person, haha.

 

[Sinmara]

Interesting. I wonder what the other NFJs think. So far we have only two NFJ opinions in this thread. Also interesting that you are the only NF so far who does not identify with idealism.

There appears to be one other NF who doesn't identify as an idealist, but the individual has not spoken up so yet.

I had a conversation with [MENTION=6163]ReadingRainbows[/MENTION], who knows me very well, so that I could get some perspective on the matter. I asked her if she thought I was an idealist, and she said yes, and had the following to say:

Yes, you are an idealist. It doesn't mean you don't see things as they are. It means you see space for improvement. Applying things to yourself can make you an idealist, just not one interested in directing others. If being an idealist meant direct others, I would shoot myself in the face.

Seeing possibilities is an idealist thing. If you do anything with that or not is another thing. NFPs talk about how life should and can be caught up the "fairness". NFJs ask what can be done with what they have without so much a "should" as what is beneficial. For example - I am perfectly capable of recognizing something on a rational level, but I might not like it on a personal level. I am also not morally against it.

I think the disconnect I'm experiencing is that there are more real examples of NFPs that I've known than there are NFJs, so the concept of idealism I see presented and discussed has a solidly NFP spin to it that I do not identify with. What Bows says makes sense to me, though, so maybe I'm just the NFJ version of an idealist.

 

[Lexicon]

I live my life on my own terms. I define myself, & my world on my own terms. I also accept that concrete reality encompasses simply more than my subjective perception of things, and I adapt and try to stay grounded within it.

So. I dunno.

Webster's says idealist means:

one guided by ideals; especially : one that places ideals before practical considerations

Personally, I'd like to think I'm guided by my ideals, but I try to make any practical aspects of life run in tandem. Balance.

So, still not sure how I'd vote on the poll.

 

[Kullervo]

Yes, very much so, at least in my personal life, like my relationships and how I view my own future. However I view the world in a profoundly un-idealistic way.

This could have a lot to do with what I value the most. I am very sexually, romantically focused and constantly idealise the perfect woman, perfect relationship, perfect sexual experience and have very vivid, emotionally intense visions around these themes. I also fantasize a lot about myself in other ways, seeing myself as a hero or a superhero, someone tragic, complex, intense and truly great. Then I wake up and feel miserable about how profoundly imperfect I am.

Yet at the same time I believe the world is a profoundly cruel place, that we as individuals and groups compete with each other in a very primal way. I have a very defined sense of "in" and "out" groups which many people my age have been conditioned to despise. I believe that most people are too idealistic in how they see the world (probably from lack of experience), and not idealistic enough in how they see themselves and those close to them.

This speaks a lot to my instinctual stacking (I am a flaming sx dom) and Enneagram generally, which certainly colours things. It would be helpful to get other NFJ voices in here, though, because I'm not a typical one.

 

[á´…eparted]

Not really. In some respects I do, but in most I don't. I strive for idealism, but only when it will serve benefit of some kind.

 

[Tilt]

I have a streak of idealism but I lean a bit more on the practical side

 

[GIjade]

Yeah, I'm an idealist. I might even be a revolutionary if I thought it would really work to make things change. However, I don't do much to work toward my dreams for a perfect world because I know it isn't attainable. And

Then I wake up and feel miserable about how profoundly imperfect I am.

Yep.

Webster's says idealist means:

one guided by ideals; especially : one that places ideals before practical considerations

The thing is, ideals can only be realized with the help of practical considerations.

Personally, I'd like to think I'm guided by my ideals, but I try to make any practical aspects of life run in tandem. Balance.

Yep, again.

 

[phoenix31]

I am definitely an idealist... I see the possibilities in situations and people. I make decisions based on the way I think things *should* be. However, it can also tend to make me really frustrated.

 

[prplchknz]

I live my life on my own terms. I define myself, & my world on my own terms. I also accept that concrete reality encompasses simply more than my subjective perception of things, and I adapt and try to stay grounded within it.

So. I dunno.

Webster's says idealist means:

one guided by ideals; especially : one that places ideals before practical considerations

Personally, I'd like to think I'm guided by my ideals, but I try to make any practical aspects of life run in tandem. Balance.

So, still not sure how I'd vote on the poll.

this is how i feel but i was gonna vote i am one but know full well it's not practically to expect them to be realized and that i still need to be practical, i like having a balance personally also i need coffee that's practical

 

[Lia_kat]

I agree with everything [MENTION=26845]GIjade[/MENTION] said. I'm an idealist at heart and it does influence a lot of my actions but I know things don't always work out that way. Like [MENTION=26782]phoenix31[/MENTION] mentioned, I definitely have a standard of how things should be (at times expecting it from loved ones, friends, co-workers, etc) but it does cause me to get frustated and disappointed.

 

[GIjade]

I am definitely an idealist... I see the possibilities in situations and people. I make decisions based on the way I think things *should* be. However, it can also tend to make me really frustrated.

Yeah, I just got finished watching some UTUBE videos about animal abuse to post in another thread here. After drying my eyes, I realized that the frustration, anger, sadness and just plain grief I experience almost everyday because of the way the world is, has caused me to become nearly suicidal. I'm not going to commit suicide (for mods), but I almost become incapacitated when I think about how we abuse each other and nature in the world. Dictators in other countries kill, abuse and create fear in the citizens under them. Our environment is suffering. Animals, children and the elderly are abused at an alarming rate. People go hungry. People starve to death. Some people can't get decent healthcare. And the love of money really is the root of all evil. It's behind almost everything I've mentioned here. Money is a problematic thing, I think, in our world. Anyway, I watch. I see. I know these things are happening and I cant do a damn thing about them. It makes me wonder why I should even stay here in a world that I can't tolerate but can't change.