[MBTI General] NFs and Intelligence

[absoluteuncertainty]

EQ is understanding others feelings, I'm stating an application of said knowledge!

 

[Maabus1999]

Intelligence is presently a term of obfuscation; IQ a form of insecurity - it's what stupid people speak to when they require recognition without achievement.

Status quorums are designed to protect power - rarely to uplift unique creativity.

Everyone is more knowledgable or more intelligent in something that someone else isn't. IQ is often misconstrued as a level to compare yourself to everyone else, when it is only a single measure concocted by fallible man and therefore truly subjective. If IQ was a nominal number with objectivity, then yes it could be measured, but sadly that is not the case.

However, while I don't think IQ is a good standard to compare to other people, whenever someone berates another standard, I find it to be with motive most of the time, instead of true belief. Now if you were to propose another solution, comparison, or counterpoint, then I would say you are concerned with the idea other then just attacking the system with no recourse.

 

[Night]

However, while I don't think IQ is a good standard to compare to other people, whenever someone berates another standard, I find it to be with motive most of the time, instead of true belief. Now if you were to propose another solution, comparison, or counterpoint, then I would say you are concerned with the idea other then just attacking the system with no recourse.

To which I'd say, read again.

You quoted my alternative. Recognition as the sum of one's endeavors, minus the pithy toolings of shallow-handed statistical esoterica. To assign measurement is to miss the point.

Personal recognition as a gem unto itself.



In its present format, IQ is arbitrary to one's socioeconomic status. This is why countries in Africa typically test lower in stature than their technologically advanced Western counterparts. Different values create different motivation.

This phenomenon of radical divergence is of course owed to constrictive elements that range in scale from the biological (neurochemical faculties; quality of health care; availability of food/water...) to simple social structure (cultural emphasis on Western academics; race...).

What if IQ measured things like crop gathering, game hunting and efficient interpretation of animal behavior? How might an advanced nation come up intellectually short against a primitive one?



As a composite entity, these obstacles compound into a volatile mixture that ultimately becomes less about absolute scale than bio-cultural prejudice.

Intelligence testing is then a quantity of ethical quorums whose primary interest is to protect traditional power structures. Bureaucracy.

Intelligence has never been a quantity of absolute shade. IQ testing is an outdated metric programmed as a bolstering agent against change.

 

[phoenix13]

Oh. Hell. Yes.

It's not that I seem dumb, I just don't seem particularly intelligent. I was never known as the smart girl. However, I've worked in 3 different research labs, and in each one, my mentor expressed shock and awe at my intelligence.

So what is intelligence? I'd say it's an enhanced ability to learn, both in speed, and complexity (how much stuff you can hold in your head and work with). So why would and N/ST have more of it than an N/SF? They don't. I think that the thinking functions may be more likely to come up with a conscious system or conclusion about impersonal topics, so the presentation is readily accessible, whereas maybe an F would leave the puzzle pieces lying around (not motivated to makes sense of them because they don't relate to people/values) and put them together on the spot (which won't be nearly as coherent). This may make us look less "intelligent," but that's just due to other peoples' lack of psychic awesomeness.

Boy, I hope that was coherent...

 

[Leysing]

I have never had the problem to be not considered intelligent, as I like scientific discussions and peaceful debates (the fiery ones tend to make me stressed) and I generally appear more T than I really am... but because of this I'm often considered emotionless.

COME ON, I'M AN F!

 

[Little Linguist]

Leysing, that is really interesting, because when I debate I turn into an ENTJ as well!!!!

 

[Leysing]

Leysing, that is really interesting, because when I debate I turn into an ENTJ as well!!!!

Ha-ha!
I wouldn't argue with an extroverted form of me...

Well, I usually manage to rein my inferior function...
...but when provoked enough I may turn into the unhealthy-ESTJ juggernaut whose Fi is racing wildly and telling Te to crush everything around.

Fortunately that rarely happens.

 

[Little Linguist]

Ha-ha!
I wouldn't argue with an extroverted form of me...

Well, I usually manage to rein my inferior function...
...but when provoked enough I may turn into the unhealthy-ESTJ juggernaut whose Fi is racing wildly and telling Te to crush everything around.

Fortunately that rarely happens.

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

When I am bored, remind me to get into a debate with you in that mode, because I would pay to see that!!!!

 

[Leysing]

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

When I am bored, remind me to get into a debate with you in that mode, because I would pay to see that!!!!

He-he-he, you certainly wouldn't be bored anymore...

 

[spacecadette]

Yes, people who only know me through work (administrative type of work) usually think I'm pretty ditzy. When we go out drinking, something always pops out of my mouth that takes them (and sometimes me) by surprise and I like to debate quite a bit then.

 

[JordanLane]

You are great the way you are. Remember...only misunderstanding leads to judgements and sway from acceptance and understanding. Accept and forgive them for not being able to understand.

 

[Snail]

Priorities determine F preference.

I don't place as much value on intelligence as I place on spiritual qualities. I view it as a means to an end rather than an end in itself. Like others here, I dislike discussing my IQ for fear of seeming like a braggart who values seeming intelligent over being humble. I also find the commonly used system of measuring intelligence to be limited. False assumptions about which forms of intelligence are more important than others make IQ scores nearly irrelevant except on the highest and lowest ends of the scale. I did well in school, but that determines little more than my desire to please others. School is unnecessary for those of us who are capable of self-teaching. I see the F preference as having more to do with priorities than mental capabilities. Just because I can be objective doesn't mean that I think it is best to be.

 

[SquirrelTao]

Not online they don't. IRL they do all the time. I don't really care, though. I have too often in my life felt too defined by my mind alone. I sometimes wonder if it was worth it to have a high GPA, especially since I went into debt to pay for it. Certainly no employer has ever seemed to care about it.

In fact, I am bringing up my child not to emphasize intelligence, talent and academic achievement as much as my parents emphasized these things. I want him first and foremost to be a happy person and a good person who is good at living and being a person.

Who cares about somebody's IQ or GPA? Nobody except maybe parents and people in mutual admiration clubs like Mensa. People care how you make them feel, they care about the results that you can get for them, they care about how good your character is, they care about a lot of things a lot more than IQ and grades.

Don't pay no mind to a few arrogant people on the internets.

 

[runvardh]

well squirrel, I know how your avatar makes me feel

 

[booyalab]

A female friend of mine has a very large bustline, and she wears this shirt that says "My eyes are up HERE". lol

I got one that says "My crotch is down THERE", it hasn't really worked out the way I had hoped.

 

[LadyJaye]

I don't place as much value on intelligence as I place on spiritual qualities. I view it as a means to an end rather than an end in itself. Like others here, I dislike discussing my IQ for fear of seeming like a braggart who values seeming intelligent over being humble. I also find the commonly used system of measuring intelligence to be limited. False assumptions about which forms of intelligence are more important than others make IQ scores nearly irrelevant except on the highest and lowest ends of the scale. I did well in school, but that determines little more than my desire to please others. School is unnecessary for those of us who are capable of self-teaching. I see the F preference as having more to do with priorities than mental capabilities. Just because I can be objective doesn't mean that I think it is best to be.

This is exactly how I feel about IQ tests. Back when I was in college, I had a Trigonometry teacher who was in MENSA, so she was constantly breaking out these brain teasers before the class started each day. Drove me mad. But, after class one day, she took me to the side and asked me if I'd like to join MENSA - I"d never even considered it. She brought their IQ test, and I took it. I ended up scoring very high on it, but it was a creepy feeling. There are many forms of intelligence, not just using deductive and inductive reasoning on a test. There are many brilliant people who score dismally on paper, so I tend to shy away from the idea that IQ defines a person's ability to be intelligent.

 

[Ivy]

Moved some stuff over to a new thread here.

 

[ygolo]

And wtf is up w/ people thinking there's a correlation between having a fun, emotionally expressive personality and intelligence? Ugh.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a positive corellation. Many assume there is a negative corellation.

 

[Rachelinpa]

You are great the way you are. Remember...only misunderstanding leads to judgements and sway from acceptance and understanding. Accept and forgive them for not being able to understand.

I like this.

 

[INTJMom]

Well, I guess after reading a few posts around here, I was kind of annoyed by some stereotypes. I hate how I can easily be categorized by my NF-ness sometimes, and people only think about how "emotionally" based I am. Sometimes I feel like people forget that NFs (or any other type, really) can be just as intelligent as, say, an NT.

In fact, I make better grades than most NTs I know. While I know that grades aren't accurate measurements of intelligence, I think it does count for something. Slacking off in a college class isn't necessarily "smart", right?

I think I have the element of surprise when it comes to debates or arguments. Normally I am a very agreeable person. However, when someone questions my intelligence I get very aggressive, and people often don't expect it.

How about any other NFs out there? Have you ever felt like people underestimated your overall intelligence? (It makes me think of Elle Woods, and how people assumed so much about her because she was blonde.)

From my experience on this website,
I have come to respect most
the intelligence of the INTPs and the INFJs.