[MBTI General] NFs and Intelligence

[INA]

It is sheer folly to assume that an NF lacks the intellectual capacity of an NT person. It is a preference. I am surprised this needed to be said.

 

[nolla]

For me it is more like, if you gonna judge me based on intelligence, I'm not interested. Nothing is more boring than people who need to be dead serious because they consider themselves so intellectual that it would be "lowering" them to have fun.

 

[Wyst]

Thank you wedekit for starting this thread. I know the thread you are referring to and I also was irritated after reading it.

My preference, as an NF, is to process in impressions, ideas, feelings, and other ways that are not easily communicable (especially to NTs) - not in numbers, stats, and raw facts. I choose the former because it's more comfortable and I find the latter boring. If you also take into consideration that I'm an INFx who doesn't like conflict and won't say what he thinks until he's sure it's safe to speak his mind, then yea, like Dana said, it's not surprising I get my toes stepped on or to have people assume I'm not thinking about the issue, have nothing to say/contribute. I think another reason I don't wade into discussions, brainstorm sessions, or whatever is because that kind of roundtable communicating drains me and unless the outcome effects directly/personally, I won't give a shite.

Communicating as an NF to NTs isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world either. People always say, 'Geez, where did he get that idea from??' After I explain it to them once or twice more, then they get it.

Perhaps that's why a lot of NFs get written off as being not as intelligent as NTs. But stepping out of our comfort zone and being a little more vocal would probably go a long way.

 

[rank]

NFs *do* sometimes let feelings guide their choices and decisions. It looks irrational to another person, even to another NF. In such moments the other person may conclude that the NF is not completely reliable to think always rationally. If this *other person* is an NF though, there is a little more chance for understanding; but if it is an NT, then usually they keep a strong doubt in the future.

I believe NTs are a little superior in one-to-one arguments, just because they are not distracted by willingness to find a win-win outcome, which is the natural desire for an NF. But that doesn't have anything to do with: a) intelligence; b) knowledge; c) abilities.

I've been in numerous situations, when an NT is the more incompetent at the moment, but they don't care. They are self-confident and won't admit a mistake, even when they see that the other was, in fact, right. In this case, the NT just collects the useful information and goes as if nothing happened. An NF more often tends to apologize and openly admit it, when proven wrong.

 

[Xander]

Intelligence is not type relative. IQ... possibly but I dislike that system anyway.

One friend is an ENFJ with an IQ of over 140 and the other could get into mensa with all possibility. Sure both are prone to missing the objective in the sibjective but that doesn't mean that they can't process information as well. It just leaves room for being an annoying smartass

 

[alcea rosea]

How about any other NFs out there? Have you ever felt like people underestimated your overall intelligence? (It makes me think of Elle Woods, and how people assumed so much about her because she was blonde.)

Yes, my intelligence has been underestimated many times probably because of the way I behave. I'm friendly and laughing a lot. I also like to do grazy and weird stuff and I don't act seriously or professionally at work all the time.

But I don't really care if people misjudge me. I can prove myself if it is needed. I have surprised some people with the change of my behavior and one INTP even called my thoughts logical.

When I refer to my intelligence, I don't mean that I have superior thinking, it just means that I'm fully capable of independent thinking. I'm also fully capable of making spelling mistakes all the time.

 

[IEE623]

Yes, my intelligence has been underestimated many times probably because of the way I behave. I'm friendly and laughing a lot. I also like to do grazy and weird stuff and I don't act seriously or professionally at work all the time.

But I don't really care if people misjudge me. I can prove myself if it is needed. I have surprised some people with the change of my behavior and one INTP even called my thoughts logical.

When I refer to my intelligence, I don't mean that I have superior thinking, it just means that I'm fully capable of independent thinking. I'm also fully capable of making spelling mistakes all the time.

awww... when you hear others speak the same language with you, it feels like home

 

[FemMecha]

How about any other NFs out there? Have you ever felt like people underestimated your overall intelligence? (It makes me think of Elle Woods, and how people assumed so much about her because she was blonde.)

It happens, but I'm used to it because there are elements of such thinking towards women as well. In small towns where I have often lived I learned to hide my intelligence to match people's social expectations. An economically disadvantaged, young woman with a pleasant smile isn't supposed to be more intelligent than the men and the socially dominant in most any given community. To avoid conflict I would just smile and nod. This was something of a disadvantage to me except that I learned to truly not care what other people think. I know what my capabilities are and can demonstrate these when I choose.

 

[Algora J]

I think it's cultural. When I lived in England, no one underestimated my intelligence, especially men.

However, I went to a very conservative university, where the majority of my professors were of the old establishment. Since my university only became coed in latter part of the century, some of my professors were condescending jerks who felt that women could not possibly be as smart as men, and you could also see this as they would favor the men's contributions while attempting to talk down to the women.

Also, if you were the least bit stylish, then no one would take you seriously. You had to dress in college sweatshirts and jeans everyday as that was our established uniform in academia.

 

[redacted]

Well, I guess after reading a few posts around here, I was kind of annoyed by some stereotypes. I hate how I can easily be categorized by my NF-ness sometimes, and people only think about how "emotionally" based I am. Sometimes I feel like people forget that NFs (or any other type, really) can be just as intelligent as, say, an NT.

In fact, I make better grades than most NTs I know. While I know that grades aren't accurate measurements of intelligence, I think it does count for something. Slacking off in a college class isn't necessarily "smart", right?

I think I have the element of surprise when it comes to debates or arguments. Normally I am a very agreeable person. However, when someone questions my intelligence I get very aggressive, and people often don't expect it.

How about any other NFs out there? Have you ever felt like people underestimated your overall intelligence? (It makes me think of Elle Woods, and how people assumed so much about her because she was blonde.)

i've never had this problem as everyone thinks of me as an NT (or the equivalent list of characteristics for someone who doesn't know MBTI). i'm generally viewed as more "rational" than anyone in my extended social circle. (i've been called a robot or calculator or AI system numerous times ) i think almost all of my friends, if they learned MBTI, would type me as some sort of NTP (one friend swears i'm INTP).

hell, my mom is a T (ISTJ), and she acts extremely emotional and irrational all the time. not many people think of her as smart because of this (and my dad's intelligence completely overshadows her anyway), but she is quite intelligent.

people aren't going around typing everyone anyway. they'll see if someone is overly emotional or not, and maybe factor that in. but Ts can be more emotional than Fs.

i guess i'm saying it's not necessarily an NF thing. (and if it was, it probably applies more to NFPs than NFJs, as NFJs will give objective reasons for their value judgments.)

 

[Angry Ayrab]

How many times have we gone over this...

I always thought T and F were just how you approach the world.

T = Objective approach (same screwdriver should fit all screws).
F = Subjective approach (Maybe this little special screw driver is too delicate to use my leatherman on it. Let us try an eyeglass screw driver. Turns out that the screw gets offended because in reality, its a tough SOB and doesn't want anyone treating it like a baby, who would have known that screws can be NT).

 

[Maabus1999]

Wait just one darn second... INTJ's have emotions? Oh my god, I think the world is starting to spin around me... FAINTS.

/Sarcasm, then again some INTJ's will deny they have any, most of those people are probably not INTJ but actually just Autistic or suffer Aspergers syndrome or I am just being totally offensive and rude.

Some INTJ's have very strong emotions. They just keep it inside similiar to the INFJ. Difference, IMHO, is that INTJ's don't need to keep relationships going but if they find someone worthwhile who "unlocks" them, they have an out to pour whatever is on their mind. The problem with a lot of INTJ's is that person now has access to a vulnerability and that can make INTJ's very uncomfortable, so they back track.

Now I don't think this applies to all (healthy) INTJ's, but IMO if they have a strong N and low T, this is more common.

 

[Sniffles]

For the most part, people usually don't underestimate my intelligence. A few NT pricks have said a few things here or there, but those are rare and usually in intense discussions.

Slacking off in a college class isn't necessarily "smart", right?

I don't know, plenty of intelligent people have done so. Tolstoy for example.

 

[redacted]

How many times have we gone over this...

I always thought T and F were just how you approach the world.

T = Objective approach (same screwdriver should fit all screws).
F = Subjective approach (Maybe this little special screw driver is too delicate to use my leatherman on it. Let us try an eyeglass screw driver. Turns out that the screw gets offended because in reality, its a tough SOB and doesn't want anyone treating it like a baby, who would have known that screws can be NT).

no no no no.

 

[Maabus1999]

NF's just seem to approach things differently, but are usually very intelligent. However, this can be masked in a society that bases most of their measures of intelligence on the sensor scale.

I find NF conversations to be entirely insightful and give me a new perspective on things; I'm sure NT's at times do the same to NF's views. Remember, opposite sides of the same coin, and without looking at the other side, you are only seeing half the picture. I don't like missing out on ideas before making a personal opinion/thought. Yes, NF's have made me reverse decisions before after seeing another side of an idea.

Don't ask me what the sensor folks see at times... I just get the comment "he's chasing butterflies again" when I think through ideas at work.

 

[Sniffles]

I find NF conversations to be entirely insightful and give me a new perspective on things; I'm sure NT's at times do the same to NF's views.

Sometimes, when they're not busy trying to torpedo our views into water.

I guess this goes back to the INTJ hate thread, where it was mentioned that INTJs tend to focus on facts while INFJs tend to focus on principles. I can see how that is, and would explain why I find INTJ arguments relatively "shallow" at times.

From my perspective: yes facts are perfectly fine, but it's best to understand the issues behind those facts. Only once you understand those principles can you better understand the facts. Im sure with the INTJ it's the opposite(or so Ive been told): principles should be based upon facts, plain and simple. Without understanding the facts, your principles aren't worth shit.

Now if the INFJ and INTJ happen to agree with each other, well you got one killer combo here: they're pretty much backing each other up. If they disagree, then it often becomes an irritatingly long discussion of the two talking past each other.

Whether or not this applies to NFs and NTs in general, I'll let others comment on that.

 

[helen]

It is sheer folly to assume that an NF lacks the intellectual capacity of an NT person. It is a preference. I am surprised this needed to be said.

Yes.

But personally, I am often surprised that people view me as being as intelligent as they often seem to. Random people (or even friends) saying, "Helen is smart" or something to that effect always takes me by surprise, a little. It's not that I think I'm UNintelligent, it's just that I don't really base my self image or esteem on my intelligence level. I don't think about it much one way or the other.

Could it be that many NFs have this approach to their own intelligence, and could this be partly causing the stereotype?

But yes, it is silly to think that because someone prefers feeling over thinking, that their ability to think clearly is inferior to someone who leans more to thinking over feeling. It's about preference, not ablility!!

 

[sketcheasy]

everyone usually says i'm pretty intelligent, or at the very least insightful. but those damn intj's always gotta shut me down, hahaha. rationality isn't everything.

my friends say i think and ponder more than anyone.

 

[cascadeco]

WONDERFUL post. And hi! :hi: I'm in the same boat with you. I don't like to IQ-drop either because it just reeks of smarm. Most seem to regard me as maternal here moreso than intelligent. This is fine with me. It's always good for intelligent people to be known for more than simply having grey matter to work with.

I'm in the boat too.

In school I was always one of the 'smart ones', so I know people didn't underestimate my intelligence. I didn't really show a lot of emotion externally (kept it all hidden within), so like dissonance I was probably viewed as an NT. Peers would want to copy off of my homework, but I never let them. ;-) And tests were never an issue. I was one of those lame people who'd get A+'s. ;-)

Same goes for the jobs I've had since graduation. People tend to lean on me for stuff, and for answers, and I know my work-related thoughts are valued.

It's probably only on this board that I would be perceived as fluffy or emotional, and somehow not on par with, say, the NT's -- because on this board I choose to really show my inner world, and many of the things I write about and respond to are related to emotions and very subjective/cognitive/psychological stuff like that.

I'm also pretty comfortable on here NOT caring about whether I come across as 'intellectual' or not - so I don't even bother trying to whittle my posts down to key points or non-babbling entities. I just don't care.

 

[Littlelostnf]

I'm in the boat too.

In school I was always one of the 'smart ones', so I know people didn't underestimate my intelligence. I didn't really show a lot of emotion externally (kept it all hidden within), so like dissonance I was probably viewed as an NT. Peers would want to copy off of my homework, but I never let them. ;-) And tests were never an issue. I was one of those lame people who'd get A+'s. ;-)

Same goes for the jobs I've had since graduation. People tend to lean on me for stuff, and for answers.

It's probably only on this board that I would be perceived as fluffy or emotional, and somehow not on par with, say, the NT's -- because on this board I choose to really show my inner world, and many of the things I write about and respond to are related to emotions and very subjective/cognitive/psychological stuff like that.

I'm also pretty comfortable on here NOT caring about whether I come across as 'intellectual' or not - so I don't even bother trying to whittle my posts down to key points or non-babbling entities. I just don't care.

I second this cause it sounds just about like what I'd write if I had the energy.